When does two handed swords get good for the hero?

[ProxyJames]

So I heard everyone say it was really good so I switch to the metal goosword and...dissapoiment! My strongest skill is only bearly stronger than stronger than falconslash and my basic attack is way weaker.

[Koby]

Practically the entire game...

You'll pretty much always have higher damage output with Greatsword vs. Sword & Shield.

Unbridled Blade is the choice to go with until you get Sword Dance. Once you have it, in most instances Sword Dance will be the best skill to utilize.

[ProxyJames]

Vs dual wielding is not the case buddy, two swords hit way harder with basic attacks and stuff like falcon slash right now with strongest attack I'm maybe doing 100 more damage (400-500) without a crit and with a low chance to crit.
With two swords you crit alot for tons of damage (500-600)

[ProxyJames]

On top of that the two handed sword skills cost way more mana a d you burn out way quicker and your stuck with your one dumb weak attack

[Koby]

For practically the whole game, the Greatswords you get should be strong enough to still outclass duel-wielded swords. Especially since the Hero doesn't get the added benefit of not being weakened on the off-hand weapon like Erik does. There is very few windows within the game where this won't be the case, but it's far more likely that at any given time you should see better results with the Greatsword. Though the Skill Grid you've gone with will also play an effect depending on what attack boosts, crit boosts, and skills you've unlocked obviously.

Sword path has Attack +19, Crit +3.
Greatsword path has Attack +30, Crit +5.

At end game: The strongest Sword has +196 attack. The strongest Greatsword +327. So by then, sure it's possible, but we're still talking about the math being 196+98=294 (Dual Sword) < 327 (Greatsword).

But early game? Doubtful. Not when we're talking about Swords being around +50 at a time when you have access to a +128 Greatsword. Because again, the Hero's off-hand weapon gets discounted damage. So unless you're trying to tell me 50+25=75 is somehow more than 128 I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.

Maybe you're just not using the best equipment available to you at the point you're at in the game, or haven't really given Greatswords a chance with a proper Skill grid setup which would explain your results.

Also you're bragging about crit damage at 600.... but I'm not even sure what level and area you're referring to as you didn't state. But 600 crit sounds extremely low unless you're talking about Act 1.

Also about Greatswords consuming too much mana. Sure Unbridled Blade uses 16 MP, but for a few reasons this isn't really a concern: even at 16MP that gives you over 10 attacks before running out (assuming you've got 160+ MP, which you should fairly early into the game) and no battle last that long... Plus all the equipment that restores MP each turn makes it even more trivial. Use 16, restore 8. Lastly it's really not that long until you should go for Sword Dance which will be better and only use 8MP.

Another thing to note is Sword Dance can be used with both Greatswords and regular Swords. =) I usually kept secondary weapons on characters so I could switch mid-battle for different skills.

I never once had issues with mana depletion in any run... Especially with equipment that restored mana practically on the same pace that you consume it. Even Veronica that just spammed heavy spells usually regenerated half the mana she consumed each turn... plus having equipment that regenerated mana on the field? Only time I really had to restore mana was when I spammed Veronica's Magic Burst that depletes 100% of her MP for one blast which would do like 4,000 damage for me.

In the end though, it really doesn't matter a whole lot whether one slightly out damages the other. Not when you have Erik on your team that can do like 6,000-8,000 damage with a single attack by end game.

If you prefer Swords play with them. I've played through the game twice now and each time try to shake it up so I definitely wasn't arguing that swords shouldn't be used. However, when using Swords on the Hero, in most cases you would be better off with the bonuses from a Shield rather than trying to dual-wield as again Erik is practically the only character that truly benefits and shines with dual-wielding.

[ProxyJames]

Right off the At your math is way off, swords have a total 5% chance to crit per hit and gswords have a 8% chance per hit, even though the the chance is lower by 3% you get multiple chances to chit and off hand crits DO NOT STUFFER THE DAMAGE PENTALY

In early game the greatsword does only slightly more damage and use up way more MP, using a sword a d shield gives you way more defense and survivalbility then once you get dual wield early game you will do way more damage than you will be able to do with a greatsword

From what I see from end game you can cap your damage so the weapons don't make a difference meaning more hits = more damage so just rock some uber falcon blades.

At current the metal goosword hits for 180 damage or I can use MP to do 480, with dual falcon blades I hit for 300-600 (depending on defense a d crits, advrage is 450) and with special attacks he does around 400ish
Overall the damage is much higher for much less MP right now.
Math

[ProxyJames]

Also you forgot to factor in how str effects damage and the damage bonuses and the fact that enemies have this thing called defence.

[Koby]

I didn't go into any of the calculating base stats, enemy stats, or anything of the sort. I only spoke about the Skills you could unlock on the grid and the weapon stat. But way to go misreading. My math was correct in the terms I was speaking about. But thanks for the clarity that you'd rather not have an actual conversation on the topic.

[FDru]

Greatsword is better against higher defense targets (the lower damage weapons hitting multiple times are still punished massively by defense), but mostly it's great after you get Sword Dance. Before Sword Dance it probably doesn't matter that much what you use.

[Nym]

What point in the game are you at? If it's late Act 1 that's probably the "worst" time for Greatswords as a Falcon slash with a falcon blade and a platinum sword can match Unbridled. One handed swords do lose their edge again by act 2 especially since early act 2 you don't have access to Sap.

[Seeking Solace]

I can't tell if you're a troll or just that ignorant...

Falcon Slash = 2 * 100 = 200% damage.
Unbridled Blade = 290~310% damage.

That's a clear win for the Greatswords. Both abilities become almost obsolete when you unlock Sword Dance by act 2, which can be used by both weapon types. Greatswords still win. Why? That brings us to the next point.

Greatswords, on average, have at least 50% more base attack. (Of the same tier.) In fact, @Koby here was a little generous in his comparison in favor of swords. The strongest greatsword has 353 ATK, not 327.

So the strongest greatsword has 353 ATK, the strongest sword has 196 ATK. Take enemy defense and hero stats into consideration, and the greatsword will deal at least double the damage. That only stops being true with seed farming.

Dual-wielding? Dual-wielding on the hero is trash. With draconian settings, you will have a hard time passing the defense threshold with the off-hand attack. It doesn't deal half the damage of the primary hand attack; it deals much less. Yes, Sap exists, but it should be there to boost your numbers, not to enable them.

Originally posted by FDru:

Greatsword is better against higher defense targets (the lower damage weapons hitting multiple times are still punished massively by defense), but mostly it's great after you get Sword Dance. Before Sword Dance it probably doesn't matter that much what you use.

Originally posted by Nym:

What point in the game are you at? If it's late Act 1 that's probably the "worst" time for Greatswords as a Falcon slash with a falcon blade and a platinum sword can match Unbridled. One handed swords do lose their edge again by act 2 especially since early act 2 you don't have access to Sap.

You're dead wrong. The Platinum Powersword is available fairly early in Act 1. A 128 ATK weapon available early in Act 1... To put that into perspective, it provides more ATK than all Act 2 swords. If this isn't a massive headstart, I don't know what is.

Greatswords massively outclass swords late-game. Greatswords outclass swords even harder early-game.