A letter to modders

[Legendary User]

Dear modders,

I ask humbly for a better experience.
I personally noticed, that the grass density, the stone quality, the lighting, models and textures are overall inferior.
To be honest I wished for a DQ11S version that would have the DQ11 PC graphics and the DQ11S Switch content. So I was super happy Square Enix announced a S-version for the PC. Yet I'm disappointed that the graphics suffered.
That's the reason why I start this discussion and I'd love to hear from you if it's possible to implement and your progress if so.

[Legendary User]

@Frit
This was funny to read. Thanks for the laugh! ^^

[Zuku]

I think the first step would be to make all the existing tools that work with the OG version to also function on this version. Then the rest could hopefully work itself. Whether or not the assets and such are easily interchangeable I'm not sure.

[Frit_/x/]

Originally posted by Tentaim:

@Frit
This was funny to read. Thanks for the laugh! ^^

jokes aside, this current version really needs its old (actually better higher) textures back, the mipmapping just looks awfull on those low res textures. For example the stone texture, looks like a cardbord from a paper-mario game or something.

[Sustain]

Just not possible this version runs on a newer version of the Unreal Engine 4 and uses completely different assets.

It's pretty much a completely different game from a technical point of view so you can't just "merge" them like that that's just not possible.

Some minor tweaks here and there maybe we can import some models and textures in time (probably a lot of work to get them in the new engine) but that's about it this game will never look like the old version.

[Tim Allahn SnAckbarr]

Originally posted by Tentaim:

Dear modders,

I ask humbly for a better experience.
I personally noticed, that the grass density, the stone quality, the lighting, models and textures are overall inferior.
To be honest I wished for a DQ11S version that would have the DQ11 PC graphics and the DQ11S Switch content. So I was super happy Square Enix announced a S-version for the PC. Yet I'm disappointed that the graphics suffered.
That's the reason why I start this discussion and I'd love to hear from you if it's possible to implement and your progress if so. :singingsheslime:

There's very little I would rule out in terms of what's possible. But, we have to set priorities in terms of what will give us the most significant results first, while minimizing the amount of time we (collectively) volunteer. I've mentioned why character models are our first priority on a number of different topics. And we actually have some experience with this from OG[www.nexusmods.com]. But despite being familiar with the process, we are nevertheless still in the early stages.

By now, you've no doubt seen the graphics tweaks thread, which offers probably the most immediate remedy.

If you'd like to know our progress regularly, there is a DQXI Modding Community Discord[discord.gg] -- although keep in mind that we discuss a lot more than just graphics mods (so we might be a little nonplused if we keep getting asked "what about the graphics")

The big thing we are working toward right now is getting our mod-loader updated for this version of the game. As that's key towards getting graphical (or any kind of) assets (cooked in UE4 4.18) injected and loaded properly in-game. For a few weeks now, we have been working towards reverse-engineering the offsets for the FPakFile::Find()[docs.unrealengine.com] function in the Definitive Edition demo. It appears that Square Enix may have patched the functionality that allowed us to load assets as loose files in the original (OG) version, however.

In the end, we may have to try a different tack: such as developing a tool for repacking our assets to match the DQXI's pak format. What Square Enix does is a bit odd: instead of a typical AES key, they XOR the data in the pak with the key "DEADFADE BEEFCAFE".

Our consensus preference is the former, as the Hook method allows us a lot more flexibility and modularity.

[Legendary User]

@Ketsu
I see. I hope it would not be too difficult

@Frit
Yes, I agree. The models bother me alot too. Just for an example:
Compare the hands of the protagonist between OG and S. OG has it more rounded and S is edgy.
Another one:
Compare the NPC's foot between OG and S. OG has actual shape and S is flat.

@Einherjer
To be honest I'll take any enhancements no matter how low the chances are \o/

[Zuku]

Originally posted by Tim Allahn SnAckbarr:

Originally posted by Tentaim:

Dear modders,

I ask humbly for a better experience.
I personally noticed, that the grass density, the stone quality, the lighting, models and textures are overall inferior.
To be honest I wished for a DQ11S version that would have the DQ11 PC graphics and the DQ11S Switch content. So I was super happy Square Enix announced a S-version for the PC. Yet I'm disappointed that the graphics suffered.
That's the reason why I start this discussion and I'd love to hear from you if it's possible to implement and your progress if so. :singingsheslime:

There's very little I would rule out in terms of what's possible. But, we have to set priorities in terms of what will give us the most significant results first, while minimizing the amount of time we (collectively) volunteer. I've mentioned why character models are our first priority on a number of different topics. And we actually have some experience with this from OG[www.nexusmods.com]. But despite being familiar with the process, we are nevertheless still in the early stages.

By now, you've no doubt seen the graphics tweaks thread, which offers probably the most immediate remedy.

If you'd like to know our progress regularly, there is a DQXI Modding Community Discord[discord.gg] -- although keep in mind that we discuss a lot more than just graphics mods (so we might be a little nonplused if we keep getting asked "what about the graphics")

The big thing we are working toward right now is getting our mod-loader updated for this version of the game. As that's key towards getting graphical (or any kind of) assets (cooked in UE4 4.18) injected and loaded properly in-game. For a few weeks now, we have been working towards reverse-engineering the offsets for the FPakFile::Find()[docs.unrealengine.com] function in the Definitive Edition demo. It appears that Square Enix may have patched the functionality that allowed us to load assets as loose files in the original (OG) version, however.

In the end, we may have to try a different tack: such as developing a tool for repacking our assets to match the DQXI's pak format. What Square Enix does is a bit odd: instead of a typical AES key, they XOR the data in the pak with the key "DEADFADE BEEFCAFE".

Our consensus preference is the former, as the Hook method allows us a lot more flexibility and modularity.

I've been meaning to ask whether any music modding similar to the original game is possible right now or if that would require something like a hook to work.

[Tim Allahn SnAckbarr]

Originally posted by Einherjer:

Just not possible this version runs on a newer version of the Unreal Engine 4 and uses completely different assets.

It's pretty much a completely different game from a technical point of view so you can't just "merge" them like that that's just not possible.

Some minor tweaks here and there maybe we can import some models and textures in time (probably a lot of work to get them in the new engine) but that's about it this game will never look like the old version.

Like you say, things like texture wrapping were adjusted between versions (they use mirroring on a lot of textures now, which is more efficient anyway) -- they were never going to just be able to "slap" the new content back into the old version. DLC was not a realistic expectation.

The lighting is probably the highest bar to replicate. With OG, Square Enix licensed a middleware called "Enlighten" by SiliconStudio[www.siliconstudio.co.jp]. With rendering improvements[docs.unrealengine.com] introduced in 4.18, they decided not to renew their license and use the base UE4 lightmaps instead. So unless we all chipped in to purchase a license of this middleware (which even Square Enix wasn't going to pay for) and then re-baked all the lightmaps in the game...yeah. I would be legitimately curious how much that kind of license would cost.

[Etoile Noire]

Who will buy a game he already owns for two or three options while he's uglier ?

[Legendary User]

@Tim
Thank you for getting me involved!
I bow before you modders honestly. You do what most of us can't do or don't understand and I think you don't get enough appreciation for your work.
Is there any way, I, as a user can help the mod team?

[Tim Allahn SnAckbarr]

Originally posted by Ketsu:

Originally posted by Tim Allahn SnAckbarr:

There's very little I would rule out in terms of what's possible. But, we have to set priorities in terms of what will give us the most significant results first, while minimizing the amount of time we (collectively) volunteer. I've mentioned why character models are our first priority on a number of different topics. And we actually have some experience with this from OG[www.nexusmods.com]. But despite being familiar with the process, we are nevertheless still in the early stages.

By now, you've no doubt seen the graphics tweaks thread, which offers probably the most immediate remedy.

If you'd like to know our progress regularly, there is a DQXI Modding Community Discord[discord.gg] -- although keep in mind that we discuss a lot more than just graphics mods (so we might be a little nonplused if we keep getting asked "what about the graphics")

The big thing we are working toward right now is getting our mod-loader updated for this version of the game. As that's key towards getting graphical (or any kind of) assets (cooked in UE4 4.18) injected and loaded properly in-game. For a few weeks now, we have been working towards reverse-engineering the offsets for the FPakFile::Find()[docs.unrealengine.com] function in the Definitive Edition demo. It appears that Square Enix may have patched the functionality that allowed us to load assets as loose files in the original (OG) version, however.

In the end, we may have to try a different tack: such as developing a tool for repacking our assets to match the DQXI's pak format. What Square Enix does is a bit odd: instead of a typical AES key, they XOR the data in the pak with the key "DEADFADE BEEFCAFE".

Our consensus preference is the former, as the Hook method allows us a lot more flexibility and modularity.

I've been meaning to ask whether any music modding similar to the original game is possible right now or if that would require something like a hook to work.

That is definitely a goal of ours. And yes, the current (well-documented) method requires the Hook method.

I won't go into the details, but to be short and to the point, the person who did the pak for the OOM team never shared their tools or documentation. Hence why they are not considering a version for Definitive Edition.

[Mist]

Originally posted by Verminous:

Who will buy a game he already owns for two or three options while he's uglier ?

Not you, so feel free to gtfo and troll somewhere else.

[Zuku]

Originally posted by Tim Allahn SnAckbarr:

Originally posted by Ketsu:

I've been meaning to ask whether any music modding similar to the original game is possible right now or if that would require something like a hook to work.

That is definitely a goal of ours. And yes, the current (well-documented) method requires the Hook method.

I won't go into the details, but to be short and to the point, the person who did the pak for the OOM team never shared their tools or documentation. Hence why they are not considering a version for Definitive Edition.

That's a shame but hopefully that would also mean finding an alternative if someone isn't willing to share any tools or documentation.

[Artur]

I'm really interested in knowing if it'd be possible to replace dubbed names with their original ones and if it gets reflected within the ingame-text like it does with the heros name.

[Tim Allahn SnAckbarr]

Originally posted by Tentaim:

@Tim
Thank you for getting me involved!
I bow before you modders honestly. You do what most of us can't do or don't understand and I think you don't get enough appreciation for your work.
Is there any way, I, as a user can help the mod team?

Probably the biggest thing, atm: 1- Be positive :)

We see a lot of these really nasty, discouraging discussions about the graphics on the forums. (I'm probably 1 of maybe 2 or 3 that will post anything on these forums). That affects our morale. Not so much that we take it personally (we see this as something Square left undone, after all), but seeing the entitlement attitude from some users who bash others so readily really makes us question whether we want to acquiesce those kinds of folks. Of course, not everyone is like that, we see chill folks (like yourself) who just want to see the best experience possible (just like us).

I myself, when trying to explain the technical difficulties surrounding these changes, have been called a "shill", "propagandist", "square enix employee", an "apologist", etc. It's very frustrating to see the kind of people that are so quick to label someone when they are just confronted with information contradictory to their internal narrative. It's called confirmation bias, and it's well-known, but mannn I could do without some of the attitudes.

And, to reiterate, we like to mod a lot more than just graphics, in general. But we are well aware of the desire to see some solutions on that front :)