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Id love to discuss that other character with you and that story line. I have thoughts on it as well (mostly in support of it, but thats cause Im hoping later we will be able to take some people to task for misleading, lying and the like) but this thread was origionaly about kitsune, and that char is definetly not one of those. So Maybe a different thread would be idea.
I agree to all of those points. :p We could open a new thread, but maybe should still somehow hide stuff that would spoil the content, I am not 100% sure how to make these fancy boxes and what not. :D
-As for the comparisons to the other areas. The centaur village and Marefolk village both have the depth of a puddle at best.
-Orcs are a bit better and if Kiyoko wasn’t best girl then Rags might be the one... though there is a weird inconsistency with why our children have to go back to the orc islands... Hretha has no issues sending here to orphanage.
-Winter City is very well done I agree. I can’t really tell you what kind of character I’m playing. I pick the good choice 90% of the time but like I kissed mama Kas. She’s too cute. But it has been very enjoyable for me and of all the areas outside of the Kitsune plot line it’s probably my favorite.
-The rift isn’t fun for me mechanically, but I have really enjoyed the story telling there.
-Spoiler stuff... (it’s really not that dark) playing as other characters isn’t really an issue for me. I like the kind of stories it can tell and I learned the preist looked like Obi-Wan... but like... not as obvious as the Bimbo Raven witch.
-The Kitsune have more story and I would say really tightly written story because it’s linear. It’s the open world vs “adventure game” argument. I would rather play Tomb Raider 2013 to ghost reacon or most assassins creeds.
-Might stop replying cause well this is a lot of fundamental disagreements that I don’t think can be worked with.
I've so far adored the writing around Kiyoko, with the sheer wealth of interaction options and how they the specific writing varies based on her pregnancy progression and our kids as well as her interactions with the kids and how it isn't always positive, much like actually raising children.
And I just ADORE my little Kinu with just how wholesome and interesting a lot of the writing is with her and my Champion's interactions, to the point were I'm inspired to writing a little side-quest/series of interactions were an Orcish Champion teaches her about their people which culminates in taking her on a Hunt in the forest as a bit of a Rite-of-Passage.
(NOTE this isn't something I'm planning on submitting to the Devs, this is more just for myself. For one thing it's so specifically bound to an Orc character that even without reading the Submission Rules I doubt it'd fly. But I'd be up for sharing it if people are interested! :})
So hearing that it seems everything involving the Kitsune you encounter later in the game and freeing Kiyoko seems to lack that level of interaction & likability and even goes against the choice of being more Dominant/Submissive or Corrupt/Pure that the game has been building up with all of the other encounters and quests I've been seeing so far has me feeling apprehensive.
The biggest thing that has me is I did cheat and look at the Wiki on Kinu's two possible personalities, and even WITHOUT looking at the two husbands either goes for (or the other Kitsune as a whole for that matter), I'm not keen on either path my daughter will take.
I want to end this saying that I've no doubt whatsoever that The Observer put a TON of effort into writing the scenes, especially with the sheer wealth I can already access interacting with Kiyoko and Kinu, and I DO enjoy a lot of the other scenes they've written in the game... but this has me questioning if I want to continue down this massive chunk of the game or just keep my little (for now, lol) family in the Astral Plane.
I don't think one has to agree on anything to discuss it, as long as everyone stays civil and polite. :) I ofc don't mind you enjoying the Kitsune content, nor do I wish in any way to change your view on it. I just think that you perceive the stuff differently than seemingly a lot of other people do.
As for the "not so dark" part - if that was in regards to what I hinted at I can not understand in any way, shape or form how you can call that mass murder "not so dark". And the way it is presented is imho also not very subtle or elegant.
That was acknowledged by the crew around Savin btw, the stuff literally was more or less excluded from the game for that reason, or rather hidden behind a door for that reason. I personally think they just should not have left the door half-open and closed it fully, so that the player has to literally force access. The tone does not really fit with the fact that one of the major points of CoC 2 is the always-still-somewhat light-heartedness that allows the game to get a way with a lot of stuff that normally would be _kiiiinda_ questionable.
But again: I am 100% fine with you feeling differently and I am really sorry if any of my replies here came across as if I wish you ill or are shouting at you or something like that.
all kidding aside, it is extremely well written, It just doesnt follow the same ideas as the rest of the game where the MC decides how things turn out. Too much realism for a game that otherwise caters to just about any fantasy and power trip you can imagine.
See, that's what's got me the most apprehensive. It's not so much the lack of choice there seems to be after freeing your family (tho I do have to question the logic of some fox-weeb walking all over an 8-foot tall Orcish Alpha with muscles the size of said weeb), it's the results of the choices you CAN make for Kinu with her personality that I'm feeling mixed on. I'm willing to give it a try. Just RP what a good papa Heartlander Orc would do.
Idk about you, but if a adventure managed to defeat all of our protectors, make it to the leader, possible fight her if you don't have amulet and leave, I'd be alittle more respectful towards them. The fact of the matter that annoys me and everyone else is that your actions don't matter. You have no control over how your character acts and they generally treat you like a lower being. Do you actively hang around people who don't treat you with common courtesy? Not all kitsune are bad, but air the location gives off makes me generally avoid or end any interactions that aren't me and my fox wife and even that ♥♥♥♥ is ruined when people refuse to even call my character by his name.
I wish I could take my wife and kids away from that place, if I could, I would never go there if not for the rare items. I do agree with champion is important as it is, but I don't think it's right that our character acts like they want to earn the kitsune's favor and the role of protector is forced on us. It's like they have a couple of super interest and wholesome characters and the rest are ♥♥♥♥. The Shrine sisters have some of the most unappealing sex scenes ever, some show they aren't even being properly pleasured. It's so strange how they went from whimpering children crying for their granny to smug condescending brats.
Everything about the kitsune's just rubs me the wrong way. No other content in the games annoys me as much as this one. They are a bunch of times where you are a OUTSIDER, even warmongering, raiding orcs have more manners and respect then them. It's not like champions want them to kiss their toes, but the way they treat us is intolerable. If I were to insult and belittle you simply because of our differences, would you want to hang around me and gain my favor?
If their culture encourages them to treat outsiders like ♥♥♥♥ then they are really only hurting themselves. I'm not going to bend the knee and play protector until they like me, because I don't care enough about them to do so. All I care about is my wife and children...and rindo...annnnd kohaku. But that's about it.
I agree completely with this. I have only seen their scenes one time each, just to see what they were like, because I dislike both Miko and Mai's personalities. Those scenes are truly pathetic and EXTREMELY immersion breaking if you are playing an imposing, strong-willed champion... They were probably designed with only hardcore submissive champions in mind. The way they treat the champion is also generally crap, pretty much making him/her seem like a loser most of the time.
The entirety of the Kitsune content is so badly designed to make the champion look pathetic that even if you go with a full lvl 6 group on the fight against nakano and literally delete him in one turn, the champion will still go. "Ohmahgod he so strong! Wow! Much power! Such edgy! We almost didn't make it!" When in fact, my champion opened with a dastardly trick that pretty much oneshoted him.
No matter what you do, no matter how you play... When it comes to the Kitsune, it will always be they being obnoxious and behaving like they're better and you're just dirt on the side of the road... Nevermind that they are basically rejects from the Old Kingdom that are BARELY surviving and LITERALLY begging random people for sex so that they don't starve to death... Though they do offer trash tier items(crap) as an "exchange".
Hells, Kitsune content is so centered towards the Champion being a loser that even the RANDOM unnamed kitsunes will treat you like garbage! Even if you win a fight against them, refuse to offer your blood, then hunt one of them down as they run away... Even after that, if you chose to screw that one you hunted... he/she will turn the tables on the champion and make him/her look pathetic— with a few exceptions, though the champion ends up looking at least stupid in those as well.
At this point, I sincerely believe the Kitsune content was just designed to feed the fetish of a loser champion being dommed, as well as perhaps some mild cuckolding stuff, or, at the very least, some voyeurism, since there are plenty of scenes of the Kitsune going at it among themselves. There even some of such scenes with an NPC that isn't avaliable to the champion— at least not yet, which makes me believe even more so that it was meant to feed into the voyeurism fetish.
And really? I don't mind. I respect every single fetish that is not illegal, i really do. But at least give us a freaking option to show displeasure towards their obnoxious behavior when it comes to their interactions with the champion. Dude, it's just so damn immersion breaking...
I'm 100% for taking Kyoko and Kinu away from that place. I honestly believe they would be much happier living with us in Hawkerthorne— or somewhere else, if the possibility becomes avaliable. At least it seems better than being slaves to an old tradition and something that... Spoilers, isn't even an actual god, but still pretends to be one.
Know what? Only Kass can save this crap.
Don't even get me started on Nakano, that dude is coldsteel the edgehoge levels of retarded. Like even if you read the lore, there is NOTHING stating that nakano is a experienced or god-like warrior. I can understand someone like Kass(Obviously she'd beat our ass if she's from the original CoC) or Komari who is this ancient powerful kitsune who literally steals your life force to become stronger.
Nanako was formally trained but that's it. The fact that he could fight 3 v1 against my champion, Arona, and Brieene get the ♥♥♥♥ knocked out of him, only for him to make us struggle to beat him in the cut-scene? Like his fighting style should have gotten him killed at worst or maimed at best. We aren't some run of the mill adventures (Especially if you are max level, like I was). I usually never want to kill off people, but I wish we got the option to kill him, just like he does us if he wins.
I don't have too much problems with the kitsune attackers, because I generally skip their sex dialogue unless I have Kiyoko with me, because I know there was this one time she humiliated this geomancer I was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because she was trying to act cute. But you do make a good point about kitsune's in general. They are extremely arrogance for sex demon knock-offs. Who were rejected by their own kind at that. There is going to need to be content where these guys are humbled or something. Honestly, i've even been ignoring kinu quest content since I know I'll just skip over it when she is interacting with everyone that isn't her siblings, rindo, or her mother. THAT'S a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ problem when a large amount of content in the game is ruined by the npc representation that it turns off the player base. I feel their god is cool, but the fact that the kitsune are the way they are makes me blame him and not want anything to do with him. It's not worth giving your soul to him, since you lose more than you gain.
I don't think Fox wife would be happy since those are her people. Kinu probably wouldn't care if you raised her to be a rebel, but then again her bf.
Hatsumomo — She is really chill and got a few laughs out of me during some of her few scenes. She's... very "open" and has a free spirited personality, which I found to be rather pleasant. There's also the curious fact that she's the only Kitsune who doesn't give you enervation when you sleep with her, I found that really interesting, as It made me raise a few theories about her.
Kurako — By far the one I liked the most among all the Kitsunes. She's a badass lady that certainly knows how to fight and get what she wants— that she does. And shocker! A strong Kitsune that actually shows proper manners and respect towards the champion!? What kind of sorcery is this!?
Rindo — I'm really sympathetic towards her, and would love for a way to help her— even take her on some adventuring with our group. But then again, who wouldn't? That's just the kind of character she is— a guaranteed hit, I believe.
Kohaku — Well... She's fun, I guess? I didn't find her to be all that interesting, but I still enjoyed her overall dialogue and personality. A small, industrious kitsune that also happens to be a very hard worker. Suits me just fine. Among all the vendor NPCs she's for sure the one I liked the most.
Komari — I like her. Can't say much about it, since it's probably a matter of personal preference. I'd love to have a few scenes with her, if ya know what i mean. Also, if you skip Kyoko content and end up fighting Komari, I found the post fight scenes to be hilarious.
Quite a lot of Kitsunes that I like huh? Then why am I complaining about them so much? Why do I say I dislike them so much?
That's simple, it's because the ones I dislike are so disgustingly annoying and immersion breaking that they ruin the whole experience for me. Having to even associate with them makes me not want to partake of the Kitsune content, even though I do like quite a few of them. Miko, Mai and Nakano are the biggest offenders here, by a humongous mile. I understand that the intention onf the writer was to make them seem powerful, mystic, way above average, given their privileged position. But I think it was presented in a terrible manner that breaks immersion simply far too much.
For example, in a few of Miko's scenes, she often drags the champion around as she pleases— in a very specific one even going as far as to "scoop up" the champion from under his/hers armipts, like one usually does with a child. Now, try to picture me, playing a 100 tone 100 thickness Orc warrior that is over 8 foot tall. Does that scene even make sense? Does Miko have super strength or something that I wasn't aware of? Last I checked she was sort of a Spellcaster, not a muscular warrior/barbarian. In tabletops, we generally call this sort of thing "acting out of character", which is, therefore, immersion breaking.
In that way, those extremely dislikeable characters, when added together with the unpleasant lack of options and player-choice to reflect the personality of the character you're roleplaying, ultimately culminated in me generally disliking the Kitsune— even though, as I mentioned before, I actually liked some of them at first.
For instance, it seems that for me, and for a whole lot of other people, the entirety of Kyoko/Kinu content— which is usually well liked and considered wholesome— is completely ruined after releasing them and being instantly locked into engaging with the Kitsune in order to interact with your family. I find the Kitsune to be at least less insuferable when you completely skip Kyoko stuff and just go do Evergreen's business. I wonder why,,,? Though I guess the answer is very clear.
Once more, I'm really sorry for this hideous wall of text... The reason I post this is because I believe it to be valid criticism, for I find it really sad that a few bad parts of such content are actually ruining the other good parts. The Kitsune content, as a whole, is not all that terrible— just really lacking in the whole roleplaying aspect of player choice that the rest of the game offers us. What actually makes it bad, in my honest and humble opinion, are those immersion breaking moments added to the already unlikeable characters— and the routes that you are forced to take when engaging them.
All in all... I guess my major gripes with the Kitsune content are that it breaks immersion far too much, as well as having some EXTREMELY unlikeable characters that you are basically forced to interact with— since some of them even become part of your family. It also offers no evil/corrupted option, and makes the champion look bad/weak/pathetic at multiple times/interactions. It quite literally made me go from "Oh, that's kinda nice..." upon starting Kyoko content to "F-word this S-word." shortly after releasing them.
And since @Suckitwetlord brought it up... Nakano is absolute garbage. The only time I considered something involving him enjoyable was when Arona said she wanted to shove her prick into his mouth. He is, without a shadow of doubt, the absolute culmination of how forced Kitsune content is. Seriously... Playing a massive orc, with Brienne and Arona in my group, and you want me to believe we had dificulty subjulgating him after the fight? Like... For real? That's just forced... If you want to make the character look good, how about you put some lore behind it instead of just metagaming the f-word out of him?
Honestly I think it makes less sense to be not able to kill him than it makes to be unable to do so. Again, I have a really hard time finding any sort of logic and coherence behind who the PC is able to kill an who the PC is unable to kill.
At this point it simply seems random and arbitrary to me.