About Corruption

[Aki]

** Might contain some spoilers I suppose*

Hey everyone,

I´ve finally managed to defeat Mother Alraune by leveling a bit and really enjoyed the game so far. But now I´m running into a little problem that worries me. So after you exit the ruin of Mother Alraune, you of course meet Kasyrra and get the chance to have some fun with her once more. I´ve selected the BJ scene and later on in that scene there is the option to go for another round. This however requires higher corruption. Does someone know how high my corruption must be ?

I´ve thought about boosting corruption by surrending but it feels cheap. I feel like corruption should be more special than something you just gain through some farming. Do you guys think boosting corruption is a bad idea ? I don´t want to mess the game up by being Level 4 and already being more corrupted that Kasyrra herself (lol). I take these scenes and the story to heart and I want gaining corruption to feel really special and happen in the scenes the game offers. But I can´t see any other way to gain corruption really at the current stage in the game. I do really want to select that option though. I´m guessing this encounter is the only chance you get with Kasyrra in the current game stage so I can´t really be corrupted through her before this Mother Alraune quest. That means I´d have to farm corruption or... ? Does someone have an idea / can give me an idea of where to go for corrupting scenes ? (Spoiler-free if possible) Or does someone boost corruption and has an opinion on it ? I´d hate to ruin myself the game due to my curiosity.

I´m worried that this Mother Alraune Quest is supposed to be done late in the game where you already gained lots of corruption. I´m at 46 Corruption right now and I suppose 100 is the limit. Through the early scenes of the BJ i gained up to like 54 but that wasn´t enough. I´m worried that boosting till like 75 liturally ruins the fun in corruption and I´m nearly totally corrupted already although my journey has just started (kind of).

[Aki]

Originally posted by Doesn't Learn From Mistakes:

Becoming a demon has always been a bad end in the games. IDK what you expected, it basically puts the game into an unplayable state because it'd be a completely different plotline altogether that would warrant an entirely different game.

It's not like they've made any secret of this, from their public writers' guide:

***

Corruption of the Soul. This is less a physical thing than CoC's corruption was, or the "oh, you can't TF back to being human" business. Remember that demons aren't a force of physical destruction, especially with Lethice not in the picture. They strip out everything good and compassionate and empathetic in a person, leaving nothing but a hedonistic husk that's obsessed with its own selfish pleasure. Addiction, sexual self-gratification, and domination without compassion. Demons are a force of moral destruction, and I want to emphasize that.

Especially since this is a world that hasn't already fallen to the demons, as Mareth had. Savarra is just suffering the first thrust of the invasion when the story kicks off, and we need to show that off. Imagine a village Alderman who's been seduced by a demon, who's willing to open the gates to the horde in order to attain the heights of pleasure she showed him on a daily basis. A warrior-queen who's become addicted to corrupted semen, and is slowly burning her soul out one minotaur blowjob at a time. In order for Heroic / Paladin PCs to really stand out, we need to show the world being Corrupted around them; similarly, there needs to be distinct beacons of good the Heroic player can rely on -- an order of Paladins, maybe, or a Lawful Good king. These same allies are those that a Corrupted PC can betray and corrupt.

The PC is not, and never will be, an ally of the demons outside specific bad-ends. You can become a demon-morph, and in the story's conclusion move towards a commanding presence as a demon lord (as in CoC), but during the story's course you will actively oppose the demon faction within Savarra.

Even Corrupted PCs recognize that a demonic invasion means an end to their freedom and way of life. If you're corrupt, you want to spread corruption and hedonism on your terms -- whether that means working as a humanoid or striving towards True Demonhood -- but you will not ever surrender to Kasyrra's control outside of a bad end. Thus the conflict ensues between the PC and Kasyrra, regardless of alignment.

One thing I do want to make possible, however, is a relationship between the player character and the main antagonist. One of the worst things about CoC, in my view, was how distant an antagonist Lethice was. You barely ever heard her name, never saw her or felt her hand directly in your adventures. The Champion only really opposes her because she's the Big Bad and that's how you beat the game. I want the PC to get to know Kasyrra, and to have the chance to find a reason to hate her -- or want to follow in her footsteps.

Well I didn´t play any of the other games really. I have the 1st Coc downloaded but with the death of Flashplayer coming up I likely won´t be able to play it. The only recent game I played involving Demons/Succubus was Lilith´s Throne and there becoming a Demon is pretty easy. Although of course there the sex scenes are manually controlled and all whereas here you´re reading and interpretating a lot of the stuff (which I also like).

Something I just don´t really get is why the character would even have sex with Kasyrra in the first place if in the end the players goal is to *not* end up as a demon (and do that sweet sex she clearly enjoys for eternity). I more thought that submitting to sex would ultimately make the player *want* to become a demon rather than staying pure. Kasyrra doesn´t force you to have sex with her and it´s in the Characters hands to decide to have sex. So the PC actually wants to have sex and risk being corrupted. But having Sex with her means Corruption = End of Game and not having Sex means staying pure = No Fun in the game. Technically that means the player should automatically always avoid sex in a realistic sense / common sense.

I wasn´t really thinking of making the player become a full demon and have them be evil, dropping their heroic deeds. That would indeed destroy the whole game´s plot and story. I was more thinking of Kasyrra corrupting the player´s body and mind (Like with the eyes you can get from the Fake-Witch Scene). The PC would have to deal with the drawbacks of being this "Half-Demon" (for example a maxed out Libido and some dark options being unlocked). The Character would be a pure heroine stuck in a Half-Demon state/body. At this point you´d be highly fragile to corruption and any bad choices or scenes increasing your corruption would now be the Bad End and fully corrupt the PCs Mind. A constant race between pureness and corruption.

[Pixel Peeper]

Yes, it's interesting that most of the Corruption gains in the game are voluntary (only a few are due to losing fights).

This game is mostly designed for casual players, who want more of a "sandbox" experience and demand a very high level of control over what happens to their character. This means developers are very limited in what transformations and stat changes they can force onto the player. So you end up with a situation where the only way the player character end up with transformations and corruption is if they voluntarily start taking strange potions and doing corrupt things. They corrupt themselves, they aren't corruptED.

It's truly bizarre, but the Corruption of Champions is something that doesn't normally happen in the game.

I'll agree that it would be more gamelike and on-brand if you had to fight hard to keep your Corruption score low, and would get corrupted if you couldn't manage it. In this scenario you could choose to play suboptimally and let your character be corrupted against their will without breaking immersion.

But it's not the way the developers have chosen for the game. Can't please everyone, I suppose.

[Aki]

Originally posted by Tripoteur Ventripotent:

So you end up with a situation where the only way the player character end up with transformations and corruption is if they voluntarily start taking strange potions and doing corrupt things. They corrupt themselves, they aren't corruptED.

That´s something that´s been bothering me for a while. After I discovered what all the ingredients do, In my next playthrough or next potion-making-session I´ll avoid all of the "fun" potions and only brew beneficials. If the enemies would actually force these potions on you, it would give potions a bigger meaning. Why would my char make herself a big-breasted-bimbo-wolfbitch with high fertility and libido at 100 ? It was a nice time discovering the effects but sadly I decided reloading after each effect to discover them all without worrying about the tfs would be a good idea at the time ;-; Now I just try to make up scenarios where it would make sense for some enemies to force stuff on me, reload, brew potions, go through the scene again and "drink" the potions.

Atleast an option / an act of consent (lol) to enable forced potions through enemies would be nice. I´d imagine for example Hashat quite enjoying making her little elf she has just found a lot more curvy.

[Pixel Peeper]

I can say with quite a high level of certainty that they will very, very rarely allow enemies to transform your character, even if you lose. They've put surprise transformations in one of these games before and people were super mad. They had to put two confirmation buttons on top of it, both with a pretty straightforward warning.

However, if it's the character gaining Corruption for losing or through certain events... I think most people would be fine with that. Having to manage your Corruption level (minimize increases, maximize decreases) would make the game more of a game, it would make characters like Kasyrra into a much more believable "temptress" type character if simply encountering her added Corruption (her mere presence makes the character want to be bad), and NPCs trying to corrupt the Champion would restore the central theme of the game.

The thematic part is really the big one here. "Champion may or may not succumb to outside forces trying to corrupt them" is a good idea, "Random person may or may not be some crazy ♥♥♥♥♥ who voluntarily did a bunch of crazy stuff and turned themselves into a demon pretty much on purpose".

But like I said, the game is aimed at casuals who want a sandbox experience, so it's unlikely to happen.

[Doesn't Learn From Mistakes]

Originally posted by AkiKay:

Originally posted by Tripoteur Ventripotent:

So you end up with a situation where the only way the player character end up with transformations and corruption is if they voluntarily start taking strange potions and doing corrupt things. They corrupt themselves, they aren't corruptED.

That´s something that´s been bothering me for a while. After I discovered what all the ingredients do, In my next playthrough or next potion-making-session I´ll avoid all of the "fun" potions and only brew beneficials. If the enemies would actually force these potions on you, it would give potions a bigger meaning. Why would my char make herself a big-breasted-bimbo-wolfbitch with high fertility and libido at 100 ?

Why indeed? If "corruption" is forced upon you, then is it really corruption? The first game let this slide because corruption was physical, but given Savin's focus on corruption of the soul here it's harder to let it pass. If you don't make the decision to be evil willingly and consciously, then you're not culpable -- real-life law makes the distinction between murder, mansluaghter and causing someone else's death through negligence. Insanity is an actual defense plea; if you're not conzigant of your actions, you can't be blamed for them.

D&D mind control makes it clear that acts taken while under domination or other forms of mind control don't shift the character's alignment because they were not voluntarily in control of their actions.

Also, as was mentioned above: most people actually only interact with the transformation system to make their OC and never bother with it again. Forced transformations just make people mad. "Make it an option" isn't an answer because of the time and effort involved in supporting that option for low returns. Opportunity cost exists.

[Aki]

Originally posted by Doesn't Learn From Mistakes:

Originally posted by AkiKay:

That´s something that´s been bothering me for a while. After I discovered what all the ingredients do, In my next playthrough or next potion-making-session I´ll avoid all of the "fun" potions and only brew beneficials. If the enemies would actually force these potions on you, it would give potions a bigger meaning. Why would my char make herself a big-breasted-bimbo-wolfbitch with high fertility and libido at 100 ?

Why indeed? If "corruption" is forced upon you, then is it really corruption? The first game let this slide because corruption was physical, but given Savin's focus on corruption of the soul here it's harder to let it pass. If you don't make the decision to be evil willingly and consciously, then you're not culpable -- real-life law makes the distinction between murder, mansluaghter and causing someone else's death through negligence. Insanity is an actual defense plea; if you're not conzigant of your actions, you can't be blamed for them.

D&D mind control makes it clear that acts taken while under domination or other forms of mind control don't shift the character's alignment because they were not voluntarily in control of their actions.

I mean I think I understand what you mean. I like moments where the character can lose themselves and their body betrays them, leading to corruption that way. The character has the option to have sex with this demon, feels compelled to do so due to the sheer amount of arousal she radiates and then ends up corrupted some more. Kind of a consensual / in the time of need rape I suppose ?

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Doesn't Learn From Mistakes:

Why indeed? If "corruption" is forced upon you, then is it really corruption? The first game let this slide because corruption was physical, but given Savin's focus on corruption of the soul here it's harder to let it pass. If you don't make the decision to be evil willingly and consciously, then you're not culpable -- real-life law makes the distinction between murder, mansluaghter and causing someone else's death through negligence. Insanity is an actual defense plea; if you're not conzigant of your actions, you can't be blamed for them.

I find this to be a fascinating take on it.

The way I saw it was... if you're doing bad things 100% under your own will, then you haven't been corrupted, you're just evil.

To be corrupted there needs to be an outside, tempting force, something that gives you the opportunity, motivation or desire to do bad things. You succumb to temptation not because you're evil, but because your own will wasn't strong enough to resist your desires. And as you keep failing to resist and keep being rewarded for failing to resist, you become trained to do the wrong thing. You become evil and that's when you start doing bad things on your own.

Another thing I find strange...

If Corruption is a spiritual thing and not a physical thing anymore, then Kasyrra tempting you into having sex with her shouldn't raise Corruption because having sex with her is not selfish or evil. It's just someone offering someone else sex and the other person accepting the offer. However, if she promised you awesome sex in exchange for doing something mildly immoral, got you addicted to the pleasure and kept asking for progressively more evil acts in exchange for the sex, that should definitely raise Corruption.

Otherwise it's just like saying "Having sex with a demon makes you more evil, it's magic, I ain't gotta explain ♥♥♥♥".