Will the head be permanently fixed viewpoint to the washer?

[Abel G]

New player here with a thought concerning head and view lock. Will there be an option to lock the head position of the player and still be able to move the wand? Moving the players neck up and down and left and right locked to the wand feels awkward and dizzying.

I was thinking along the lines of locking the view to a section/wall and then moving the wand around to clean that are, so that the camera is stationary (or mostly, perhaps a little drift would be fine).

Any thoughts? Am I making any sense?

[DOS32]

yep that would be way better. if not something like how Arma works where the gun moves independantly

[Abel G]

Yeah, at the very least, a toggle or option to enable it.

[thelefthorse]

Yeah, I was really excited to play after the update because I was unable to play the game at all due to motion sickness, but the changes made in the update haven't helped me at all.

I 100% think if I could control the spray head separate from the cursor/view it would solve my problem. A greatly extended FOV would also be a huge improvement.

Still, what you're suggesting, OP, is what I would most like to see. I am completely unable to play the game as it stands now.

[Abel G]

Originally posted by thelefthorse:

Yeah, I was really excited to play after the update because I was unable to play the game at all due to motion sickness, but the changes made in the update haven't helped me at all.

I 100% think if I could control the spray head separate from the cursor/view it would solve my problem. A greatly extended FOV would also be a huge improvement.

Still, what you're suggesting, OP, is what I would most like to see. I am completely unable to play the game as it stands now.

I sympathize. I gifted this game to a friend and he messaged me a few minutes into the game while cleaning the first van and said he can't play it due to nausea. He said he went to bed after that it was that bad. So he's returning it :/

As for me, in the meantime I made a few changes that made it bit more tolerable for myself: Increased framerate to 144 (was 60), keep crosshair on always, and use slower sweeping motions.

[SpetS]

For some reason it really hurt my eyes that the washer is fixed to the view.

[Abel G]

Ye. The reason it's uncomfortable is because it's not really natural. In reality, we don't lock our head movement and neck to the objects we are holding in our hands.

[MintKuro]

I don't think I understand this... The game is set up like FPS games generally have been for ages, so it makes sense, but what you're asking for... To separate camera and wand movement altogether? So then there would be two different controls for camera and for the wand? Or am I overthinking this? Because the way I'm parsing it just sounds incredibly confusing...

[thelefthorse]

Originally posted by MintKuro:

I don't think I understand this... The game is set up like FPS games generally have been for ages, so it makes sense, but what you're asking for... To separate camera and wand movement altogether? So then there would be two different controls for camera and for the wand? Or am I overthinking this? Because the way I'm parsing it just sounds incredibly confusing...

Think of it this way:
As it is now, when you move the wand, the entire camera view moves with it--up, down, side to side, etc., as if you were holding the sprayer in your mouth; in effect, the camera is controlled by the sprayer.

In contrast, if what we are asking for can be implemented, you will see the sprayer move, as if you are holding it in your hand, but the camera will only move when you use WASD/controller. This way, the camera is controlled by your head, instead of by the sprayer.

I have only ever had issues with motion sickness in one other game, years ago, so I was really surprised to have so much trouble. Like the guy's friend who had to go to bed, within ten minutes of play I start feeling like I have a really, really bad hangover; every minute I play after that it just gets worse and worse, so I can't play at all.

That said, I have no idea how hard-coded (I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but you know what I mean) the current system is, so I don't know if it is even possible (or logistically reasonable) for the devs to try to separate the two.

I certainly hope it is, and as responsive as these guys have been to feedback I am confident they will add an option for it if they can, but I'll also understand if they can't. They have already promised more FOV options, so I'm hoping maybe that will help some as well.

[MintKuro]

Okay, that's sorta what I was thinking. I admit, that still sounds really weird and non-intuitive, from a gamer standpoint. I'm pretty well conditioned to gaming controls though, so that sounds a lot more complicated and weird, rather than tying it to the camera like it is now.

I can't say I entirely understand how that would be easier, but if it helps, then I support an option for it.

[FuturLabJoshMarketing]

We're exploring our options for more ways to combat motion sickness, a FOV slider is also being worked on.

We have considered looking at something like this but can't promise anything yet.

We also added a couple of features this patch if you want to read the patch notes: https://steamcommunity.com/games/1290000/announcements/detail/3006697839977518401

[Abel G]

Originally posted by Josh FuturLab:

We're exploring our options for more ways to combat motion sickness, a FOV slider is also being worked on.

We have considered looking at something like this but can't promise anything yet.

We also added a couple of features this patch if you want to read the patch notes: https://steamcommunity.com/games/1290000/announcements/detail/3006697839977518401

Glad to hear there is discussion among the devs. Thank you for consideration on this matter. It really shows your commitment to the community.

Originally posted by MintKuro:

Okay, that's sorta what I was thinking. I admit, that still sounds really weird and non-intuitive, from a gamer standpoint. I'm pretty well conditioned to gaming controls though, so that sounds a lot more complicated and weird, rather than tying it to the camera like it is now.

I can't say I entirely understand how that would be easier, but if it helps, then I support an option for it.

First of all, admittedly I don't even know what would be the "best" way to improve the motion sickness problem.

In your earlier reply you compared this game to the general FPS genre. There is a lot of differences in the movement in this game than running with a gun. A shooter, for example, you rarely have your head on a swivel. From what I've seen, there is very little up and down and side to side movement with the actual mouse during firefights and movement in general. It's a twitch response where you move your crosshair to a target and then back to center where your crosshair stays nearly motionless. Think about it, the more mousemovent, the lower the accuracy.

In contrast with a game using a pressure washer wand to clean objects you're doing almost the entire opposite of a traditional FPS: You stand still and wave your mouse all over the place, paying very little attention to accuracy and more about coverage. What this means is that in this game there is major camera motion which leads to disorientation and thus, motion sickness. That being said, it doesn't affect everyone the same. Some more acutely than others.

What I was proposing is actually a little different from user thelefthorse described. The simple "quick fix" I had in mind was to lock the camera and move the mouse as if you were painting in photoshop. Obviously this would have a completely different feel than it does now, but it would solve the disorientation problem. I'm not saying that this is the only and correct way, but I think it's worth investigating and experimenting with. One idea I had was to, for lack of better words, soft-lock the camera to an object of interest. Meaning, the camera would stay mostly still but would gently move as your wand would approach the edge of the screen and then return back to the center of the original camera position where you started.

I hope that paints a little more mental picture.

*Edit: To further clarify, I'm not suggesting that all the movement in the game be constrained to locked camera positions. I was thinking more along the lines of playing the game as it is, but with an added button you could toggle to lock the camera to whatever it is you're pointing at so that you can move your wand around and not worry about the camera changing position in that moment. When you're finished with that area, simply press the button to toggle off the camera lock and you're back to normal traditional FPS movement.

[MintKuro]

I apologize, I wasn't trying to compare the game to FPSes directly, just the idea of a "gun" of sorts attached to the camera is a staple mechanic, generally. I think I might also be a bit constrained in my thinking by that like... when I've used a pressure washer in real life, I've also followed the wand with my head, a lot like it's presented in this game.

Thank you all for explaining. It's helped me understand a bit better. I was really confused before, as I couldn't think of anything that wouldn't be even more disorienting feeling, you know?

[Abel G]

Sure, I understand. Far be it from me to make the situation worse lol

The more I think about it, I wish I could demonstrate my concepts visually, but I have no idea how to do that. I have a pressure washer and have used it and agree that my eyes and head do follow what I'm aiming at, however it is much different than what is portrayed in the game. In reality when I move my wand around at the the object I'm washing my head does not move in a 1:1 manner in connection to the tip of the wand. I'd say my chin moves about 1 to 2 inches for every foot my hands move. So if I'm pointing at the tires of my car with my hands and raise my hands to point at the window of the car my hands moved about 3 feet? Then my chin (or head) moved about 3 inches. In the game, your head is moving as if it attached to the end of the wand. Kind of like how the other commenter described the handle coming out of the characters mouth. Now that's a lot of movement compared to just a few inches, wouldn't you agree?