Herd Management: Why are players forced to wait?

[Pengwin]

First of all. I am really enjoying this game. This is not a rant.

I have the feeling that regardless of the type of game, enforcing the player to wait is always a bad design decision. Games should be fun. Always. Waiting isn't fun and essentially just wasting time. Games are always some waste of time, but we usually enjoy this. Being forced to wait for no reason is just boring.

So currently managing a herd enforces the player to sit around and waste some time. Regardless of being able to do something useful in the time. On one hand this should not be too easy on the other Players enjoy to stay focused on a task. Herd Management needs players to lose focus of the task and do something else to fill the gap. Why would you want a game mechanics to make a player get disconnected from a task which is enjoyable?

Why not instead let players pass time as they want and instead make herd management more interesting by making them take 'more care' instead? Like let a player pass an 'ingame year' and give a task to ensure the herd is going in the planed direction.
Right now it might take several hours/days to complete a task to manage a herd to get to a 4-star. Not because the task is difficult, but because the players is forced to wait.
In times where games a plenty and free time is low this somehow feels disrespectful for the players.

So please change this mechanic to something which is fun and make herd management more fun/enjoyable.

[VictoriaHuntress]

you can always advance the in-game calendar day by sleeping past midnight. An in-game year is three in-game days. You can't spam the sleep system, so you have to be in the game for at least one in-game hour before you can sleep for 3 in-game days (max). Thus, you must have at least one hour of in-game activity per calendar year in order for sleeping to work.
In the meantime, there are plenty of things to do during that time - visiting unexplored areas, tracking game to find undiscovered need zones, checking up on other herds, working on assigned objectives.

They did post in Events and Announcements recently, where they mentioned something about changes to herd management, so perhaps we'll see it become more efficient.

[dbond1]

I won't argue that there should not be more ways to pass time than sleeping. I don't need it, but I see nothing wrong with it and won't pick that hill to die on.

What I do think is that the micro view of 'herd management' that you and many other players have adopted is not the approach that fits the game best. I mean players who follow a single herd around for days on end to manipulate it to produce trophies. I don't think that was the intention of the design, but at the same time does no obviate it either.

Rather, I find the best approach is a macro view. More of a reserve management system than herd. A rising tide lifts all boats sort of thing. That culling the proper animals across all herds and across the entire reserve to more gradually, but broadly, improve the average fitness of the animals present is the right way to approach it. And in that sense, being able to pass time for an afternoon, or two days, isn't needed.

What herd management represents is generational effects compressed in to days or weeks. It's already far too responsive if you look at it all from a realism perspective. If you want to ignore that, fine, the devs do too. And I won't be playing a generation from now, so I get it. And I like it even. But I've never focused on a single herd.

If the request is to be able to pass time for a year, then it feels like we aren't really managing anything. Just rolling the state of the reserve through an RNG machine and seeing what pops out the other side.

[VictoriaHuntress]

Originally posted by dbond1:

I won't argue that there should not be more ways to pass time than sleeping. I don't need it, but I see nothing wrong with it and won't pick that hill to die on.

What I do think is that the micro view of 'herd management' that you and many other players have adopted is not the approach that fits the game best. I mean players who follow a single herd around for days on end to manipulate it to produce trophies. I don't think that was the intention of the design, but at the same time does no obviate it either.

Rather, I find the best approach is a macro view. More of a reserve management system than herd. A rising tide lifts all boats sort of thing. That culling the proper animals across all herds and across the entire reserve to more gradually, but broadly, improve the average fitness of the animals present is the right way to approach it. And in that sense, being able to pass time for an afternoon, or two days, isn't needed.

What herd management represents is generational effects compressed in to days or weeks. It's already far too responsive if you look at it all from a realism perspective. If you want to ignore that, fine, the devs do too. And I won't be playing a generation from now, so I get it. And I like it even. But I've never focused on a single herd.

If the request is to be able to pass time for a year, then it feels like we aren't really managing anything. Just rolling the state of the reserve through an RNG machine and seeing what pops out the other side.

Agreed. I generally hunt and explore from sunrise to sunset (unless I have a night hunt objective) and then sleep until the next day. In ~2500 hours of play, I think I've used the sleep system to rapidly advance the calendar for maybe 100 hours or so.

[Antorius]

I generally hunt and explore from sunrise to sunset (unless I have a night hunt objective) and then sleep until the next day.

This is how I play, too. Especially with the luxury of packing more than one weapon around, it's not too difficult to hunt opportunistically without over/under-doing the weapon tier. Then again, I genuinely enjoy this -- encountering a 5-star is just an exciting perk. ^_^

[Pengwin]

Originally posted by VictoriaHuntress:

you can always advance the in-game calendar day by sleeping past midnight. An in-game year is three in-game days. You can't spam the sleep system, so you have to be in the game for at least one in-game hour before you can sleep for 3 in-game days (max). Thus, you must have at least one hour of in-game activity per calendar year in order for sleeping to work.
In the meantime, there are plenty of things to do during that time - visiting unexplored areas, tracking game to find undiscovered need zones, checking up on other herds, working on assigned objectives.

They did post in Events and Announcements recently, where they mentioned something about changes to herd management, so perhaps we'll see it become more efficient.

Been there, done that...
I have seen everything on the map I wanted to see. Which leaves me with finishing the longer tasks to get those 4-stars. So there is nothing useful left in this endgame state besides managing herds to a 4-star.
But I did not knew your can skip three days (1 year) by sleeping once. Thx for that hint. Still thats a long waiting time for some animals, which reach maturity with 16 years or so...

[kevvy2k]

I agree no matter anyones opinions, I am BORED and almost despise the game lol too bad because it is very scenic.. The sound is ANNOYING constant sound of a tape running. Ultimate Hunter come on..?

[Antorius]

I don't envy game developers. On the one hand are players who are unhappy unless they are continually given new carrots to chase. On other hand are players who dunk on developers for milking it by continually releasing paid content.

A game is what it is, and the fundamentals usually don't change. We can reasonably expect to eventually become bored with any game. The question is: do we feel like we got enough enjoyment for the time and money spent? If so, then taking a break until it feels fun to play again is probably best.

[Pengwin]

This is just my opinion and this is not intended to go against anyone in person. My statement is, that games should be fun, in a way of #1 rule for any game.
Regardless of being a simulation or other genre, game developers should always be concerned if game mechanics are fun or not. And 'waiting' without a purpose is not funny. So the waiting get a component which is fun or benefitial. Else it should not be enforced on the player.
I am looking forward to changes in the herd management and would be grateful for positive changes, which let me wait less.

[Pengwin]

Originally posted by VictoriaHuntress:

you can always advance the in-game calendar day by sleeping past midnight. An in-game year is three in-game days. You can't spam the sleep system, so you have to be in the game for at least one in-game hour before you can sleep for 3 in-game days (max). Thus, you must have at least one hour of in-game activity per calendar year in order for sleeping to work.

How does this work exactly? Can you just sleep 3 times in a row and it will count for 3 days? I can only sleep for 23 hours in one go.

[Olyari]

When you realize that herds are locked to areas of the map and understand how the paths from need zone to need zone work, the game becomes too predictable.
While playing, I don't see a huge map, I see 10 small maps glued together and that breaks inmersion. This also makes herd management feel more grindy too.
The herd management is fun at the beginning when you are learning the game mechanics, but now I don´t feel like I´m hunting, but I´m a Shepard taking care of my herd.

[Antorius]

When you realize that herds are locked to areas of the map and understand how the paths from need zone to need zone work, the game becomes too predictable.
While playing, I don't see a huge map, I see 10 small maps glued together and that breaks inmersion.

Well, animals are fairly territorial and habitual.

...now I don´t feel like I´m hunting, but I´m a Shepard taking care of my herd.

That is how I feel too, but to me it is a good thing. :) I am hunting them, but also taking care of them in a larger sense by improving their fitness as a whole. My understanding is that hunting IRL is quite linked to conservation efforts as well, and many hunters appreciate a sense of stewarding the environment.

[VictoriaHuntress]

Originally posted by Pengwin:

Originally posted by VictoriaHuntress:

you can always advance the in-game calendar day by sleeping past midnight. An in-game year is three in-game days. You can't spam the sleep system, so you have to be in the game for at least one in-game hour before you can sleep for 3 in-game days (max). Thus, you must have at least one hour of in-game activity per calendar year in order for sleeping to work.

How does this work exactly? Can you just sleep 3 times in a row and it will count for 3 days? I can only sleep for 23 hours in one go.

That's right - you have to sleep 3 times, consecutively, as long as you have spent at least one in-game hour actually doing something in the game world.

[kevvy2k]

If I want to age a specific animal I play 10-15 mins sleep 23hrs play 10 sleep 23 play 10 sleep 23. Has worked for me but gets OLD. Give me random lol Ya I know you already got my $$ so I am ???? Not buying.

[kevvy2k]

Show me where the sleep info is written? 1hour? play time

[Pengwin]

Ooooff. I just learned more about the maturity stages. Getting to a 4-star black bear will turn this into a sleeping simulator.
Their maturity stage is from 16-39!!!
So they can turn from a 1 or 2 star mature into a 4 or 5 star over 23 ingame years. Thats 69 days. And will force me to wait for about 6 hours only to pass the time with the 3-times-sleeping method to skip the time.
Not sure if I can keep playing for this. This just feels wrong and really needs a rework.

I like that getting an animal with a high trophy score is not RNG-based as in COTW (cull until you get lucky with a respawn), BUT making the player wait is also not the answer.

I really hope this gets a solid rework with a mechanism that is actually fun for the player.