Tier 5 rifles

[Antorius]

I am still using the Remington 783 with the free ammo, and have a few questions.

• Is there any reason to prefer the Steyr Pro Hunter over the Remington 783 (they are basically the same weapon, according to the in-game stats!)?
  
• Is there any reason not to prefer the Steyr Pro II over the Steyr Pro (the II is not much more expensive!)?
  
• Or, is it perhaps "better" to stick with the Remington 783 for a while yet, and invest first in upgraded scope/ammo?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Just to add some context, I am not looking for a Tier 6 rifle since the largest game I am interested in taking at this time is deer. Just wanting to upgrade in some way!

[kubanskiloewe]

in general all Steyr are more accurate than the Remingtons ingame. You see this when aiming on the size of this red dot; the smaller it is the more accurate the rifle is.

ProHunter is in .243 while the ProHunterII comes in 7mm .
compare the ammo of these in energy and bullet size/weigh and my table below or ingame at ammo encyclopedia..

Another versatile, powerful long range caliber in Tier 5 is the cal .270 (Steyr Monobloc greenbrown); the most powerfull is the cal. 30-06 in Tier5

There are several sheets out there where you can compare the calibers and ammo types; i did here one a 2 patches ago (maybe its not anymore up to date). It shows energy (joule) over range (meters).
But it does not show how big the woundhole the different bullets make; still the bullet weigh is mentioned for orientation.

Here´s another link from the "Guides" page here in steam :
https://codeaid.github.io/woth-toolbox/firearms?q=steyr-pro-hunter-ii

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3310813570

[Mauserich]

I used all the weapons and restarted the game because I didn't want to have so many weapons in the store.

Basically, I didn't notice any significant differences between the Remington 783 and the Steyr .243. It's possible that the Steyr is a little more accurate, but if so, it's hardly noticeable.

However, the free load that is indicated with a 100 grain projectile has an incorrect packaging illustration, because there is no 100 grain projectile from this series. It is also possible that it is the other way round and the 100 grain specification is wrong. Sloppy work. ,-)

At the moment I only use the 783 because it is free with the 85 grain copper bullet I bought from remington, because it is indicated correctly to give me the feeling of more authenticity.

With a correspondingly good scope, you can achieve good results with all class 5 animals at a reasonable distance. Good shots provided. I like to use the gun as a challenge to hunt stronger animals to force myself to shoot cleanly and to correctly estimate the distance at which the cartridge works well.

Basically, you can say that about two thirds of the equipment is superfluous or duplicated.

However, the 783 is both a good beginner's rifle and a good challenge for experienced players. Take the 3-12x scope and you have a harmonious weapon.

[6Taylor4]

If you go through the missions and take the occasional culling shot you will generate enough money to own everything; at some point in this game/sim money will become irrelevant. I'm not the best hunter, I own everything to be sold except one ATV, which isn't worth 39k. I use all the weapons because I can. You should too. While some weapons are similar, the differences are enough to motivate you to try them for yourself. Grampa's Rifle is still my favorite weapon. With the added ammo options it's quite a performer. I've been a fan of lever action rifles since i got my first Red Ryder BB rifle with real smoking action (vaporized 3in1 Oil)!

[Antorius]

In this case, I went ahead and bought the Steyr Pro. Being reassured that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Remington 783, I just like the look of the Steyr Pro (which has the same in-game stats and ammo). Then I bought a deluxe scope -- it's obviously way too powerful for such a rifle, but I like the reticle and it will scale well into longer-range arms later. Also picked up some soft point ammo to try. So, I've got a Steyr Zephyr II for pheasants and ducks, and a Steyr Pro for deer and the odd badger (I know it's over-tiered, but I don't hunt badger much). I think I'm set for a while. :)

[6Taylor4]

Those are good choices, good hunting!

[Mauserich]

Originally posted by Antorius:

In this case, I went ahead and bought the Steyr Pro. Being reassured that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Remington 783, I just like the look of the Steyr Pro (which has the same in-game stats and ammo). Then I bought a deluxe scope -- it's obviously way too powerful for such a rifle, but I like the reticle and it will scale well into longer-range arms later. Also picked up some soft point ammo to try. So, I've got a Steyr Zephyr II for pheasants and ducks, and a Steyr Pro for deer and the odd badger (I know it's over-tiered, but I don't hunt badger much). I think I'm set for a while. :)

That's what I did the first time I tried it, because I thought the Steyr was nicer to look at.

1). But I quickly realized that the surface color of the metal parts of the steyr didn't harmonize so well with the surface of the scopes. In fact a different black. With the 783, it's almost the same.

2) Then, as I said, it costs nothing and it is the lower entry level in the game. I found it quite funny to achieve good results with the simplest solution at the second attempt.

3). A good scope is important, but it has to fit the gun. On a light weapon like the .243 you should not use a "stovepipe". I don't know if you've noticed, but there are different heights of scope mounts. Unfortunately I have noticed that the very low mounts are not at eye level of the player character when you look at it in photo mode. So only scopes with higher mounts can be considered. Then there is the 3-9x scope, which I would prefer because it would fit the weapon even better. However, the image of the scope is so dark and the edge sharpness so miserable (a real challenge and pain for the eyes) that I switched to the much better 3-12.

This is my Budget Chalange Rifle (BCR). ,-)

Otherwise take the Steyr .300 Win Mag. for the safe shots and nicer look with the 3-12x scope.

[6Taylor4]

The Bushnell Tactical is on almost every rifle I use; it's a bit "cluttered" for some, but it's the best zoom, the widest view and the most detailed recticle. If you're doing your own target solutions, it's the one; remember there's a conversion factor for the recticle - The Huntress's posts cover this in fantastic detail.

[Antorius]

I don't understand what a "solution" and "conversion factor" means, I thought that Deluxe > Standard > Basic in a categorical way!

[VictoriaHuntress]

Originally posted by Antorius:

I don't understand what a "solution" and "conversion factor" means, I thought that Deluxe > Standard > Basic in a categorical way!

You can use the Bushnell DMR scope, with Hunter Sense on, to measure energy, elevation and windage vs range, for each zero setting, for every rifle/ammunition combination. That will produce the ballistics solutions for your rifles and ammunition. If you are so inclined, you can compare the measurements with results obtained by using a ballistics calculator ( Hornady, Federal, or JBM have online versions). I've explained how I do this elsewhere in the forum.

Conversion factor means that the reticle scale used in-game does not correspond to the numbers shown on the reticle: For the Bushnell Elite DMR scope, the scale has been compressed by a factor of 4 - that is, 1 MIL as labelled on the reticle is really 4 MILS in the game.
You can verify this by going to a shooting range, and measuring the angular diameter of each target circle for the 100m target. The inner circle is 10cm in diameter, the outer is 20cm. This is not coincidence - a 10 cm circle at 100 meters will subtend an angle of 1 milliradian.

[6Taylor4]

Brilliant - now you see why I was vague; it's very technical, and reflects the game's ballistics, and is good to know, especially on the higher levels, where the automatic help is not present, and you have to figure windage, etc.

[Antorius]

Yeah so...this and other threads that I have opened are rapidly indicating that this game is too technical for me, haha. I'll just...bumble along on Adventurer. Either things will eventually click or I'll just look forward to my game time as a nature walk when it wouldn't otherwise be possible. :)

[6Taylor4]

Adventure mode is not "bumbling" it's a valid way to play, I like Hiker because sometimes I'm a lazy hunter. But don't feel bad about what mode you play, taking the technical stuff out, for me, took a lot of the frustration out as well, so play it your way!
I still try to "get" ballistics, it's pretty interesting.

[Antorius]

Here is a helpful video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfAPfX51gQQ

[6Taylor4]

Well, that video has outdated information, it's over a year old and things have changed since then.

[VictoriaHuntress]

There is no best rifle, shotgun or bow. You have to learn how to select the right (aka, suitable) tool for the job at hand, understand its strengths and weaknesses, and how to use it effectively in different scenarios.

Eventually you'll be buying everything in the store anyway (well, perhaps not the outrageously expensive vehicles LOL), so you can set goals to learn how to use every weapon in the most effective ways. That's what makes this game interesting and challenging.

As an example, consider the difference between the Remington 700 Long Range and the Steyr SM12, both chambered in 300 Winchester Magnum. Both use the same ammunition, and have similar (probably identical) exterior ballistics performance characteristics.

The big difference is in the dispersion cone size (that is, the size of the Hunter Sense Aiming circles). Both rifles have roughly the same accuracy, in the statistical meaning of that term - on average, groups of 10 or more shots will be centered on the target bullseye (assuming that is your intended point of impact, after accounting for any wind drift). What will be significantly different is the precision, again in the statistical sense - that is, the size of those groups - imagine drawing a circle around the entire group - the Steyr's circle will be very small, the Remington's will be much larger.

This is because the game adds a random error to the trajectory of the bullet - the magnitude of that error is determined by the size of the aiming circle - the inner circle represents the point of impact area with the highest probability, and the outer circle the point of impact area with the lower probability. If the game is using the typical probability distribution for the angular error, the inner circle would represent the region where 68% of shots would land, and the outer ring would represent the remaining 32% of shots. Of course, the game can use different percentages.
You have no control over this random error - it is always applied, and the best you can do is to eliminate the aim sway effects.

So, what does this mean in terms of effective shooting?
Well, imagine you are aiming at medium-sized animal like a Mule Deer, in a perfect broadside presentation. That animal will have a vital zone circle with a diameter of 8 inches or so (perhaps that is generous), which is 20 cm. That means you should aim so that your intended point of impact is at the center of that vital zone. As long as the bullet is within 10cm of the center of that circle when it hits the deer, your chances of landing a fatal shot are very high.

Suppose the probable angular error in the Steyr rifle is 0.5 MILs (that's already too large for a precision rifle like a Steyr, but...), and that of the Remington is 1.0 MILs.
The deer is 100 meters away.
The probable linear error for the Steyr rifle would be 0.5 MIL x 100 m / 10 = 5cm.
For the Remington, it would be 1.0 MIL x 100 m / 10 = 10 cm.

If you played out this scenario a very large number of times, which rifle do you think would have the most 1-shot kills?

What if the deer is 200m away?
Steyr: 10 cm
Remington: 20 cm

300 meters:
Steyr: 15 cm
Remington: 30 cm

This is all probability-based, of course. You might just be lucky or unlucky on any one shot, or a series of shots.

Statistically speaking, the Steyr would score higher in a measure of fatal 1-shot kills vs range to target, after having averaged over all other variables, than the Remington.