Confused about the last journal entry *SPOILERS*

[MCGSCEFFAAWHETJH55555]

I don't know what Pierre means in his journal about the code for the first lock being something nobody would ever figure out. How do you figure it out, then?

[Atelth]

From the first dream sequence you must remember drawings from his journal

Church - cross
cousin - 2 because he mentioned he was 2 ( ? )
music tutor - note
mother - woman gender symbol
fireplace - fire

In every dream sequence you must go to cellar and read his journal

[MCGSCEFFAAWHETJH55555]

Originally posted by MienskoPieczone:

From the first dream sequence you must remember drawings from his journal

Church - cross
cousin - 2 because he mentioned he was 2 ( ? )
music tutor - note
mother - woman gender symbol
fireplace - fire

In every dream sequence you must go to cellar and read his journal

I only remember the music tutor and the mother pictures. When can you first see his journal? I don't recall the other drawings.

[Atelth]

Originally posted by MCGSCEFFAAWHETJH55555:

Originally posted by MienskoPieczone:

From the first dream sequence you must remember drawings from his journal

Church - cross
cousin - 2 because he mentioned he was 2 ( ? )
music tutor - note
mother - woman gender symbol
fireplace - fire

In every dream sequence you must go to cellar and read his journal

I only remember the music tutor and the mother pictures. When can you first see his journal? I don't recall the other drawings.

You can see this first time some minutes before chapter 2

[ВадяПерфоратор]

Originally posted by MCGSCEFFAAWHETJH55555:

Originally posted by MienskoPieczone:

From the first dream sequence you must remember drawings from his journal

Church - cross
cousin - 2 because he mentioned he was 2 ( ? )
music tutor - note
mother - woman gender symbol
fireplace - fire

In every dream sequence you must go to cellar and read his journal

I only remember the music tutor and the mother pictures. When can you first see his journal? I don't recall the other drawings.

you can see his journal during all these "memories" interscenes between chapters, (1-2, 2-3, 3-4 etc)
4 interscenes will show you pictures(they are randomized) and last one (5-6 ch) will show you code from 2nd lock on his shelf(randomized too)

[therealdanhill]

How the ♥♥♥♥ are you supposed to think those are going to be relevant later? and there's no way to go back to them! Come on

[SKINLESSHEAD]

Originally posted by therealdanhill:

How the ♥♥♥♥ are you supposed to think those are going to be relevant later? and there's no way to go back to them! Come on

You aren't. It's a secret. Have you ever played a survival horror game before? The best endings always have obscure requirements. Instant gratification has ruined you.

[therealdanhill]

Originally posted by HydrogenBong:

Originally posted by therealdanhill:

How the ♥♥♥♥ are you supposed to think those are going to be relevant later? and there's no way to go back to them! Come on

You aren't. It's a secret. Have you ever played a survival horror game before? The best endings always have obscure requirements. Instant gratification has ruined you.

Incredibly off-base take based on assumption. I have been playing this genre for almost 30 years. It would be easier to list the survival horror games I have *not* played than the ones I have.

There is nothing wrong with a secret offering a reward to a player. That reward however should not be something significant enough that a player is going to feel like they significantly missed out by not finding it. It's tied to an entire ending - not just an extra bit of lore, or a costume.

The design is also problematic as it's going to be confusing for some players, as once you get to that locker to enter the code, you're presented with a bunch of symbols and you don't know if they are in the level, if they are in your notes, or where to find them _unless_ you either look it up, or noticed the symbols previously, but either way in a lot of cases it's going to be too late since you cannot access those diary entries after you initially read them (which is odd given there is a 'files' menu with other diary entries readily available.

[killer_hamster]

The issue for me is that this ending doesn't really feel like an extra, secret, special ending intended for repeat playthroughs. I understand why people feel like they missed out through no fault of their own.

Edit: Idk, if the intention is that most players are supposed to finish the game more than once (potentially several times without help from the internet) to get ending 4 then ok, I guess. But, especially considering its not a super short game, I feel it's not unreasonable for people to not want to do that or to feel that the game is being a bit too coy.

I mean now that I know about it, I don't mind. I just replayed the first hour and screenshotted the first drawing.

[Scooter]

Originally posted by HydrogenBong:

Originally posted by therealdanhill:

How the ♥♥♥♥ are you supposed to think those are going to be relevant later? and there's no way to go back to them! Come on

You aren't. It's a secret. Have you ever played a survival horror game before? The best endings always have obscure requirements. Instant gratification has ruined you.

Blud.... obscure is one thing, it's UFO ending in SH1.
This one? It's not obscure, it's unnecessarily convoluted.

Most "good ending" flags in timeless horror games like RE1, SH, etc tend to be ones you can piece together logically as you go through the game if you're attentive enough that it's more than possible to accidentally get them if people are, again, attentive enough. Here, we're literally given the journal entry notifying us about its relevance at the tail end of the game and the code relevant to it is not only randomized, it tracks back hours prior in the run without any way to retread it.

If the game provides a way to retread at least SOME of the memory segments via, say a reflective pool of water in a save room for Andre to "collect himself" then that's one thing. But as it is, players are pretty much required to play a new playthrough/ load earlier saves or bruteforce it altogether.

Again, Obscure? No. Convoluted? Very.

[killer_hamster]

Originally posted by Scooter:

If the game provides a way to retread at least SOME of the memory segments via, say a reflective pool of water in a save room for Andre to "collect himself" then that's one thing.

That's a good idea. I was thinking about how to justify it. Even just a bed that you can take a rest on or something. That has the advantage of drawing attention to the dream sequences and making it clear to the player that they are important somehow beyond just story exposition.

[SKINLESSHEAD]

Originally posted by Scooter:

Originally posted by HydrogenBong:

You aren't. It's a secret. Have you ever played a survival horror game before? The best endings always have obscure requirements. Instant gratification has ruined you.

Blud.... obscure is one thing, it's UFO ending in SH1.
This one? It's not obscure, it's unnecessarily convoluted.

Most "good ending" flags in timeless horror games like RE1, SH, etc tend to be ones you can piece together logically as you go through the game if you're attentive enough that it's more than possible to accidentally get them if people are, again, attentive enough. Here, we're literally given the journal entry notifying us about its relevance at the tail end of the game and the code relevant to it is not only randomized, it tracks back hours prior in the run without any way to retread it.

If the game provides a way to retread at least SOME of the memory segments via, say a reflective pool of water in a save room for Andre to "collect himself" then that's one thing. But as it is, players are pretty much required to play a new playthrough/ load earlier saves or bruteforce it altogether.

Again, Obscure? No. Convoluted? Very.

In silent hill 1 you have to find 2 specific items that are very easy to miss in order to get the good ending. Explain how logical those are and how you found them on your first playthrough. You're acting like getting the bad ending on a first playthrough is the end of the world.