So about those Paragon assets..

[Atoastydoofus]

While the concept is awesome and some of the stuff in the trailer seems be original content. How much of the game is using Paragon's models and weapons? And are they placeholder or permanent? It's not a huge issue or anything but it does stick out like a sore thumb compared to some of the stuff that seemed to be OG. Wouldn't it be better if it was all your teams own work instead someone else's necro'd work?

[Pyrofisho]

Originally posted by Graslu00:

Well yes, they could have, just like you can tell a dentist to become a surgeon on their free time. Come on lol, be realistic. Nobody in their right mind would do it unless they're 100% solo on it.

By "could haves" we could have everything in the world. But it just isn't like that. Game development isn't like that.

If they're making a game in their free time while also working on their usual job, where's the time to learn, years while you're still wishing to make the game? Time isn't free, and it's limited. :)

Being a small team isn't an excuse, it's a fact. They're doing their fields and using assets to complete the game. I can assure you if they weren't Paragon assets, nobody would bat an eye, and they could still be free assets or bought from asset stores. Like most indies you see in VR titles, or other UE4/Unity games. (Not talking about asset flips)
Just be thankful Epic released these great assets for anyone to use on their projects.

"just like you can tell a dentist to become a surgeon on their free time."
...yes? Yes you can literally do schooling online now, infact there's online colleges that set up your learning plan to fit your work schedule.
0/10 get a better example.

So after several posts, it's becoming clear it's not a discussion of reality and what one can really do, it's your own defeatism making you think it's not possible despite it being done plenty of times. That's just plainly not true. It can be done, has been done, and will continue being done.

They chose not to. And that's fine.

[Graslu00]

Originally posted by Pyrofish:

Originally posted by Graslu00:

Well yes, they could have, just like you can tell a dentist to become a surgeon on their free time. Come on lol, be realistic. Nobody in their right mind would do it unless they're 100% solo on it.

By "could haves" we could have everything in the world. But it just isn't like that. Game development isn't like that.

If they're making a game in their free time while also working on their usual job, where's the time to learn, years while you're still wishing to make the game? Time isn't free, and it's limited. :)

Being a small team isn't an excuse, it's a fact. They're doing their fields and using assets to complete the game. I can assure you if they weren't Paragon assets, nobody would bat an eye, and they could still be free assets or bought from asset stores. Like most indies you see in VR titles, or other UE4/Unity games. (Not talking about asset flips)
Just be thankful Epic released these great assets for anyone to use on their projects.

"just like you can tell a dentist to become a surgeon on their free time."
...yes? Yes you can literally do schooling online now, infact there's online colleges that set up your learning plan to fit your work schedule.
0/10 get a better example.

So after several posts, it's becoming clear it's not a discussion of reality and what one can really do, it's your own defeatism making you think it's not possible despite it being done plenty of times. That's just plainly not true. It can be done, has been done, and will continue being done.

They chose not to. And that's fine.

I said it's possible, several times, read my posts properly. I said it's not a realistic option, thinking about time frames.

Originally posted by Pyrofish:

Don't forget the game Bright Memory. Several years in development worked on after work and on days off, made a triple A quality 3d FPS game.
It's fully possible. Does that mean all devs *have* to? No. But don't say it's impossible and not how it works.

Also... Bright Memory? This game?

"A member from Bless Online development team[9] on Chinese video site Bilibili revealed Bright Memory had used pirated game asset upon release. The asset in question is ripped from released game Bless Online and Aliens: Colonial Marines, including weapons and most enemies in game[10][11].

Further discussions[12][13] revealed Zeng “FYQD” Xiancheng made false claims that Bright Memory was made all by himself. Other contributors including the composer were not listed in the credits. "

Also made with Unreal Engine 4, which means free access to tons of assets. Huh. 0/10, get a better example.

[Pyrofisho]

Originally posted by Graslu00:

Originally posted by Pyrofish:

"just like you can tell a dentist to become a surgeon on their free time."
...yes? Yes you can literally do schooling online now, infact there's online colleges that set up your learning plan to fit your work schedule.
0/10 get a better example.

So after several posts, it's becoming clear it's not a discussion of reality and what one can really do, it's your own defeatism making you think it's not possible despite it being done plenty of times. That's just plainly not true. It can be done, has been done, and will continue being done.

They chose not to. And that's fine.

I said it's possible, several times, read my posts properly. I said it's not a realistic option, thinking about time frames.

ok but it literally is realistic because it's been done, is being done, and will continue being done.

Originally posted by Pyrofish:

Don't forget the game Bright Memory. Several years in development worked on after work and on days off, made a triple A quality 3d FPS game.
It's fully possible. Does that mean all devs *have* to? No. But don't say it's impossible and not how it works.

Also... Bright Memory? This game?

"A member from Bless Online development team[9] on Chinese video site Bilibili revealed Bright Memory had used pirated game asset upon release. The asset in question is ripped from released game Bless Online and Aliens: Colonial Marines, including weapons and most enemies in game[10][11].

Further discussions[12][13] revealed Zeng “FYQD” Xiancheng made false claims that Bright Memory was made all by himself. Other contributors including the composer were not listed in the credits. "

♥♥♥♥ well now I'm just sad lmao I was looking forward to that
yada yada chinese knockoff etc etc

[Graslu00]

Originally posted by Pyrofish:

♥♥♥♥ well now I'm just sad lmao I was looking forward to that
yada yada chinese knockoff etc etc

Well I don't know and can't comment about the new entry, but it being UE4 means there's access to tons of presets and assets, but with that background I don't know if I'd trust the "one man team" thing.

A great example of one man team is S.P.I.E.S. don't die (previously GoldenEye 25, thanks C&D), which is being made entirely by Ben, except for music and sound design, that is being worked on by Yannick.

Ben has been a freelancer in the 3D industry for years, and worked on 3D environments since mid 2000s. Even someone like him still needs help and improvements on things like human characters. He's also only able to afford doing this thanks to selling his models on asset stores for other devs to use them on their games (oh...).
He's been learning UE4 game dev for the last few years (and still is learning) to do this game, which is planned to release in 2022. If we count all the time he spent learning... that's 6+ years of development time, which not many people can afford or even think about, and when you're not solo and have a team like is the case of BPM, that becomes even a harder task, not everyone has all this time and resources to work freely and learn at the same time.

Realistict =/= can be done. Realistic = affordable and reasonable.
Yes, it's possible. No, it's not the norm, and you can't expect most teams to do this. There will always be exceptions on things though.

I'd also like to clear up that I'm not targetting you blaming them, I know you don't blame them, but there's people here that do so which just kind of shows that they have no clue how game development works.

[Pyrofisho]

Originally posted by Graslu00:

Originally posted by Pyrofish:

♥♥♥♥ well now I'm just sad lmao I was looking forward to that
yada yada chinese knockoff etc etc

Well I don't know and can't comment about the new entry, but it being UE4 means there's access to tons of presets and assets, but with that background I don't know if I'd trust the "one man team" thing.

A great example of one man team is S.P.I.E.S. don't die (previously GoldenEye 25, thanks C&D), which is being made entirely by Ben, except for music and sound design, that is being worked on by Yannick.

Ben has been a freelancer in the 3D industry for years, and worked on 3D environments since mid 2000s. Even someone like him still needs help and improvements on things like human characters. He's also only able to afford doing this thanks to selling his models on asset stores for other devs to use them on their games (oh...).
He's been learning UE4 game dev for the last few years (and still is learning) to do this game, which is planned to release in 2022. If we count all the time he spent learning... that's 6+ years of development time, which not many people can afford or even think about, and when you're not solo and have a team like is the case of BPM, that becomes even a harder task, not everyone has all this time and resources to work freely and learn at the same time.

Realistict =/= can be done. Realistic = affordable and reasonable.
Yes, it's possible. No, it's not the norm, and you can't expect most teams to do this. There will always be exceptions on things though.

I'd also like to clear up that I'm not targetting you blaming them, I know you don't blame them, but there's people here that do so which just kind of shows that they have no clue how game development works.

There is access, but all I've seen indicated he did it himself
man ♥♥♥♥ that guy
I'll never forgive the Chinese.

I think it's too common to call an exception. Indie games come out with one man teams surprisingly often. It's a choice whether to devote the time to do it all yourself, or to use assets. They chose not to in this.
but ya a lot of people in these threads don't quite get it

I think we're agreeing in different ways lol

[Dear next of kin...]

Complainers are sad. You want better, make better, otherwise there won't be better. There are not words in existence that will somehow impart your personal sense of consumer entitlement into another person. Stop whinging about how things "should" be done, and recognize how they are done. If you think a handful of devs who couldn't afford the time or money to make or commission new assets for their games gives a crap about people who piss and moan about their game, you're sadly mistaken. Make your choice, buy it, try it, and then either refund or keep. Stop wasting your time shouting into the void about ♥♥♥♥ like this, cause the void is just laughing at how impotent you are.

[happyfaceman]

So that actually is Sevarog in the trailer? I was interested in this game but I have yet to buy it when I saw Paragon models were in this game. I just flat out refuse to buy a game where most of the content is just an asset flip. Luckily there's a Rhythm FPS coming out next year called Metal: Hellsinger that seems to be the same thing, but judging by the trailer it seems to respect the person buying the game by not being mostly free assets.

[Pyrofisho]

Originally posted by Dear next of kin...:

Complainers are sad. You want better, make better, otherwise there won't be better. There are not words in existence that will somehow impart your personal sense of consumer entitlement into another person. Stop whinging about how things "should" be done, and recognize how they are done. If you think a handful of devs who couldn't afford the time or money to make or commission new assets for their games gives a crap about people who piss and moan about their game, you're sadly mistaken. Make your choice, buy it, try it, and then either refund or keep. Stop wasting your time shouting into the void about ♥♥♥♥ like this, cause the void is just laughing at how impotent you are.

"If you haven't done better you can't have opinions on something"
always hated this argument because it is just so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dumb lmao

[Graslu00]

Originally posted by JD:

So that actually is Sevarog in the trailer? I was interested in this game but I have yet to buy it when I saw Paragon models were in this game. I just flat out refuse to buy a game where most of the content is just an asset flip. Luckily there's a Rhythm FPS coming out next year called Metal: Hellsinger that seems to be the same thing, but judging by the trailer it seems to respect the person buying the game by not being mostly free assets.

Please explain to me how they are disrespecting you by using assets that are meant to be used in marketable games.
Metal: Hellsinger is a rhythm game but isn't a roguelike afaik. It's different genre.

As such a good and respected consumer, you should be able to differenciate what an asset flip is. This game obviously has care put into it, unlike blatant bland asset flips.

If you buy games regarding if the models they use in them are their own and not because the gameplay and what they offer, you should refrain from buying most indie 3D titles. Chances are most use market assets.

[Percher]

Originally posted by JD:

So that actually is Sevarog in the trailer? I was interested in this game but I have yet to buy it when I saw Paragon models were in this game. I just flat out refuse to buy a game where most of the content is just an asset flip.

i think your priorities are a bit skewed there buddy. yes, there are free assets used, but it doesn't really matter that much when the game plays as well as it does.

[Atoastydoofus]

Originally posted by Dear next of kin...:

Complainers are sad. You want better, make better, otherwise there won't be better. There are not words in existence that will somehow impart your personal sense of consumer entitlement into another person. Stop whinging about how things "should" be done, and recognize how they are done. If you think a handful of devs who couldn't afford the time or money to make or commission new assets for their games gives a crap about people who piss and moan about their game, you're sadly mistaken. Make your choice, buy it, try it, and then either refund or keep. Stop wasting your time shouting into the void about ♥♥♥♥ like this, cause the void is just laughing at how impotent you are.

Google irony. It'll help you look less stupid going forward....maybe.

[gibibi]

I'm not here to contribute anything of value. Just wanted to ask what the hell is wrong with you people? At this point I can't tell which one of you is in the right. For now Graslu seems to be the most stable one.

[KingoKings365]

What? IDC if royalty free assets are used, the game looks good to me and the music is out of this world

[Pyrofisho]

Originally posted by KingoKings365:

What? IDC if royalty free assets are used, the game looks good to me and the music is out of this world

That's bout my opinion. Kinda silly to get mad about it when it's done well. Not often we actually get it, free assets, done right and not an asset flip lmao

[IvanThePornTerrorist]

Oh God oh Jesus oh man! People are having fun despite the devs' choice to not spend time and money they probably didn't have or want to spend making a project they probably started for fun finding and hiring a 3d modeler so they could double the development time for very little difference or gain in the final product! This is absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ unacceptable!

If some of the people here knew how many games used purchased or free assets they'd probably have a stroke. I'm surprised they aren't angry the devs didn't make their own engine from scratch too.