IS Jane's Fleet Command (older game) better than this game?

[Vuyek]

.

[havocsquad]

I would say keep in mind Sea Power is still considered in early access state being actively developed still making forward progress.

What Janes/SCS Fleet Command as a finish product excels at vs Sea Power at the current state:

1. Start to Finish play for long scenarios that have high amount of individual units present. It's already fully optimized to not bog down indefinitely as time passes.

2. Save feature works 100% for single player. The only exception is don't put any missiles in flight that you intend on hitting their targets fired. I can't remember if it was just land attack missiles that suffered this issue or if it was more than that.

3. Air combat and Air AI. Air combat controls is simplistic but the UI mechanics for it are very good. The aircraft AI (enemy or AI ally) does normal AI behavior regarding air to air, anti-ship, and ground. Nothing special but it does function properly.

5. Multiplayer. If a person can direct host that has a public IP address, you can play with or against friends in pre-made scenarios or you can make your own scenarios.

5. Also has mod content from the NWP mod that expands the game with more than the base game units.


What Sea Power excels at base game vs Janes/SCS Fleet Command finished product:

1. Sonar modeling. Diesel submarines are more accurately much more harder to find vs in Janes/SCS Fleet Command where they are easily spotted if the sonar system has the range to detect it. You can be a sneak a lot easier in this game.

2. Manual fire ability for anti-ship missiles and torpedoes, especially the ability to control wire guided torpedoes.

3. Subtle details about fire control radars and search radars is better handled.

4. Ground units can be mobile.

5. Semi-active missiles do not self-destruct in flight when attack order is changed/cancelled to something else as long as the missile still has the radar painting the target.

[Vuyek]

thank you so much for the detailed response

[joetrusty2020]

Thanks for the summary. My life was too busy around the time Fleet Command came out, and I had been disappointed with the air AI performance of the earlier Harpoon II. I preferred to fly Microprose's Fleet Defender, but I have pushed the limitations of that gold version, too. Apparently you cannot actually sink ships that you strike with missiles or bombs but rely on mission goal triggers for the accomplishment. Unfortunately, I could not get Fleet Command to work in Windows 7 when I bought the Steam bundle with Dangerous Waters a few years back when my 2005 disks failed to reinstall.

I am looking forward to future developments with Sea Power and have enjoyed most of my custom scenario, platform testing, limited tactical exercises in the mission builder so far. I have also enjoyed a few of the canned scenarios.

[SSG Beard [506 IR]]

I can't play fleet command after playing this. Fleet command just feels like an arcade style game and old. It's like trying to go back to Falcon 4 after playing DCS. Sea Power will evolve into a far superior game anyway.

[HofVanStrudel]

What janes fleet command does better atm is ready states for air crafts and ai gameplay and more varied voicelines

[tacit rainbow]

Originally posted by SSG Beard 506 IR:

I can't play fleet command after playing this. Fleet command just feels like an arcade style game and old. It's like trying to go back to Falcon 4 after playing DCS. Sea Power will evolve into a far superior game anyway.

I recall how arcadish DCS was in times of Flaming Cliffs 2 and just laugh at SP whiners. For a game 3 months in early access, SP is a perfect ultra realistic game (but not that good as it is expected to be on release)

[Lanner]

Fleet Command is pretty great but I always have trouble running it on modern systems. Not gonna lie, If I still had my old Pentium 4 rig and a decent 4:3 monitor I'd probably still play it from time to time!

Originally posted by HofVanStrudel:

What janes fleet command does better atm is ready states for air crafts

I just don't understand this. I get that we all want to roleplay as deck boss, but do you really need ready states when the entire CAG is basically on Alert-2? With no aircraft in queue, it takes about 90 seconds to get 2 planes airborne. If you just want a slower/more realistic feeling pace to carrier air operations, you can simply delay your launches.

[havocsquad]

Originally posted by Lanner:

Fleet Command is pretty great but I always have trouble running it on modern systems. Not gonna lie, If I still had my old Pentium 4 rig and a decent 4:3 monitor I'd probably still play it from time to time!

Running Steam SCS Fleet Command great now on a 2017 system running an Intel i7 of that period with Windows 10 with a 1080p monitor running the game on the game's max possible resolution (1280x1024)

In about a year or two I'll probably upgrade my system because of Windows 11 minimum hardware security requirements to a balanced performance Intel gaming rig.

Played a modified version of the scenario on the Grenada crisis mission from Sea Power workshop. Those long drawn out missions with a sizable units in Sea Power just tank/crater in performance currently.

No issues at all running the Steam version as long as you don't Alt-Tab out of the game or hit the windows key. That issue will happen no matter which version you can get running.

If you need some tips that might help to get the game going, let me know.

[Cabal]

Originally posted by joetrusty2020:

Thanks for the summary. My life was too busy around the time Fleet Command came out, and I had been disappointed with the air AI performance of the earlier Harpoon II. I preferred to fly Microprose's Fleet Defender, but I have pushed the limitations of that gold version, too. Apparently you cannot actually sink ships that you strike with missiles or bombs but rely on mission goal triggers for the accomplishment. Unfortunately, I could not get Fleet Command to work in Windows 7 when I bought the Steam bundle with Dangerous Waters a few years back when my 2005 disks failed to reinstall.

Fleet Command works on Win11 but needs some work to achieve that. It's possible. Recommend the NWP mod for more depth, realism incl. detailed sensors etc.

Originally posted by SSG Beard 506 IR:

I can't play fleet command after playing this. Fleet command just feels like an arcade style game and old. It's like trying to go back to Falcon 4 after playing DCS. Sea Power will evolve into a far superior game anyway.

After installing NWP, it gets very detailed regarding sensors and many other additions etc.
Also: Don't downplay Falcon 4 (especially with it's BMS mod). It has atmosphere, it has a living battlefield in the 3D AND in the 2D world (menue, campaign screen). It's alive, but not fake-alive. The AI constantly works with stuff like C3, SAM networks & AI (pinging, ambush tactics...), logistics etc.. DCS compared to Falcon is just a boring sandbox playground for dudes with expensive hardware. Since Flanker 2.0/LockOn etc. it was just regarded as a nice sim to make screenshots/vids. Wasted too much money on this which is the most unfun sim since I played my first sim on the Amiga (Falcon 1, Interceptor). Eagle Dynamics work on the dynamic campaign but it won't surpass that of Falcon 4's.

Why should you play Fleet Command? -> !NWP mod!, scenarios, replayability thanks to big "ongoing" missions.

Also another example: Why do I still play Fleet Defender (Microprose) more than the F-14 in DCS? Because you get to fly in a world during the cold war era which give you the right atmosphere, the right foes, the right weapons etc. and missions which you won't find in DCS even in 10 years. Even time-capsules (from the times right after the cold war) like Tornado or Falcon 3.0 make more fun. Try getting back to DCS after a long break... oh and don't try to tell me your family life being great if you vanish into your vault for the rest of the day. American stereotype: Dude has money, usually two cars parked outside a mega garage, bought a rig for several thousand dollars (probably with a cockpit), has a room for all this and his wife, usually a 10, is totally dependent thus needs to tolerate all these time consuming hobbies if she wants to stay in this wealthy environment etc. :) Try to pull something off as a "normal" earning dude with your wife raising the kids alone and you will be single faster than you can say AAAAA.

Sea Power is great, it will be here to stay for many years, a clear buy. But there are others which still are alive besides Command Modern Operations -> Harpoon Ultimate Edition. A history since 1989. For you it's dated crap, for me it's fully packed with scenarios which you won't find anywhere.

Originally posted by tacit rainbow:

I recall how arcadish DCS was in times of Flaming Cliffs 2 and just laugh at SP whiners. For a game 3 months in early access, SP is a perfect ultra realistic game (but not that good as it is expected to be on release)

SP is a perfect ultra realistic game? Yeah, it's oriented that way. But don't mistake graphical masterpieces for "perfect ultra realism". I would only call Command Modern Operations and Harpoon Ultimate Edition "ultra realistic" because militaries around the world use(d) this for real-deal simulations in "what-if" scenarios.

[tacit rainbow]

Originally posted by Cabal:

SP is a perfect ultra realistic game? Yeah, it's oriented that way. But don't mistake graphical masterpieces for "perfect ultra realism". I would only call Command Modern Operations and Harpoon Ultimate Edition "ultra realistic" because militaries around the world use(d) this for real-deal simulations in "what-if" scenarios.

CMO realism is oversold. The best part of it is logistics simulation, but speaking of systems and weapons performance it is... Well, I was really shocked that an IRL game-changing Shipwreck missile has nothing to do with is ingame conterpart. Given that they have no graphics they could have implemented it's different attack modes and flight profiles, but they are the same as in War Thunder (= mobile game level).

ASW detection is as simple as in Fleet Command, as so on. That's why I see giant potential in Sea Power, they did implement many cool things on early access release.

[Cabal]

Originally posted by tacit rainbow:

Originally posted by Cabal:

SP is a perfect ultra realistic game? Yeah, it's oriented that way. But don't mistake graphical masterpieces for "perfect ultra realism". I would only call Command Modern Operations and Harpoon Ultimate Edition "ultra realistic" because militaries around the world use(d) this for real-deal simulations in "what-if" scenarios.

CMO realism is oversold. The best part of it is logistics simulation, but speaking of systems and weapons performance it is... Well, I was really shocked that an IRL game-changing Shipwreck missile has nothing to do with is ingame conterpart. Given that they have no graphics they could have implemented it's different attack modes and flight profiles, but they are the same as in War Thunder (= mobile game level).

ASW detection is as simple as in Fleet Command, as so on. That's why I see giant potential in Sea Power, they did implement many cool things on early access release.

ok, whatever.

laugh at SP whiners (?)
CMO oversold
Parts of it are War Thunder (= mobile game level)
ASW detection simple as in Fleet Command

Got ya.

Despite this:
DCS started out with Blackshark and afterwards the A-10C. Flaming Cliffs 2 (semi realistic, focus on sensors & flight model + beauty) was integrated into DCS.

[UkrainianDoomer]

Yes. For now.
FOR NOW.

[tacit rainbow]

Originally posted by Cabal:

Originally posted by tacit rainbow:

DCS started out with Blackshark and afterwards the A-10C. Flaming Cliffs 2 (semi realistic, focus on sensors & flight model + beauty) was integrated into DCS.

Perhaps you are a young man, but in fact DCS started with Lock On. FC2 and DCS are it's descendants. So DCS as present accumulated a two decade long job, and that is my take. Thus we have to recalibrate out game quality evaluation based on development time.

About CMO - I wish you read my posts. Yes, for a game that has nothing but dots with parameters it's realism is oversold. Shipwreck is just the most obvious example and there's no arguing with that. It's plainly not a Shipwreck but something ported from a coin-op machine game.

[Thewood]

OK, maybe Shipwreck is an obvious example. What are some others?

[tacit rainbow]

Originally posted by Thewood:

OK, maybe Shipwreck is an obvious example. What are some others?

Simplistic ASW with an instant reveal of a sub's true position instead of making you to chase a ghost. It was the reason I quit that game—despite other factors appearing promising.