im not understanding how to deal with submarines

[Crustacean]

currently, i feel they ruin every mission i try to play. im still learning everything but i have a grasp more or less of the actual ship combat. I do not find fun having to deal with submarines, theres multiple different types of sensors and sonars, i understand that some sonar can only work at various levels, below layer, above ect, but even if i have 1 ship set a sensor for each level, seems like enemy subs get to stay invisible and launch torpedos that are pretty munch impossible to dodge even with noisemakers and turning away from the torpedo as i read was the best way to avoid them.

and when i do have a sub spotted they just drop 5 noisemakers and its impossible to hit them.
this last mission i tried has me going against an american carrier group in order to kill the carrier. I am having fun for a while defending against air attacks and the single sub just gets to shoot torpedo after torpedo while never becoming visible with my ships all having their sonar up and running and multiple sonobuoys in the area i know the sub is in.

I dont find this fun.
Please give me advise on what to do to make dealing with submarines not feel like it ruins the actual fun part of the game, launching missiles at other ships

[havocsquad]

First, can you give us the exact name of the scenario/mission you are referring to about the attack on the US carrier group?

Second, you need to provide as much details as possible about a specific failure/issue that occurred.

If you can record it and post a video of it, that would be best. The second best would be images of the situation on 2D map along with the sea state and layer/depth details.

It's usually easier to address these questions on the official Sea Power Microprose discord channel since images and web links to recording of issues encountered are allowed unlike Steam discussions.

You'll find help a lot easier to find there.

[Crustacean]

this particular mission was mission 5 from the pacific meltdown campaign.

You lead a kirov battlegroup to take on a carrier group with the objective of sinking the carrer. the groups start about 200 nmi away, and the american sub starts maybe like 50 nmi to your south.
Using the ASW group, i put on an above layer, below layer, and active sonar which never detected the sub except for maybe one fleeting pop up contact(but there were other things in the area like merchants so idk) I never recieved a signature of the sub and the torpedos never got noticed till within 3 nmi of my ships which is not what i have witnessed in other missions with subs.

However, i am more looking for advise on how to locate and deal with subs in general, not so much with that particular mission as my experience has been once i try looking for the sub the sub launches torpedos that feel like i cant dodge them and are impossible to hit back with torpedos due to the frequency of noisemakers the sub can drop so i end up having 5 torpedos all circling uselessly even if i bring in torpedos from different angles

[mallandyrr]

Try watching this YouTube video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhDa2wY9Xhs
And if you search some of their other videos they have an "ASW school series" as do several other YouTuber's

[ScareCrow369]

ASW helicopters are your best friend but so is uninstalling this half baked rushed game!

[[PfE] Bugfixer]

@ScareCrow369 you are aware that it´s Early Access and the meaning of it?

[Polly Agstrom]

A carrier group is always escorted by a sub, so you need to rat him out ASAP so you don't get a nasty surprise.
You need to use ASuW helos, you can drop whole paterns of sonobuoys by clicking the buoys then ctrl+click or alt+click or ctrl+alt+click for an even bigger pattern. You spam them all around your formation. When you see torpedoes in the water you need to check the area where it's coming from!
Then you shoot torpedoes on the sub with your helos until it dies.
Keep in mind that topedoes can be tricky for ships alone to detect, and it'll be often too late when you do, so having sonobuoys around can help with that so you can react faster.

[ramjbjb]

Submarines are in general quieter than surface vessels. For many reasons. By design, to starters, but also because they can use the environment around them in a much more dynamic way than surface ships generally do.

Never trust your onboard sonars only when fearing a sub is nearby - they usually only hear the submarine when he's so close he's already launching torpedoes.

use helicopters. Or ASW aircraft. Drop sonobuoys in front of your force, covering the path you'll travel through, and drop some of them on the flanks too.

Also - active sonar has a much more limited range than your passive sonar (high frequency sounds get absorbed faster by the water, and active sonar is always high frequency as it has to give good resolution on returning pings). Don't ping away your position. And if at all possible, don't go faster than medium speed (so the sub has trouble hearing you to begin with).

[newparade]

Try to get your asw screen ships between the most likely submaraine attack vector and your high value ships. Slow them down once in a while to listen. I like to have an active aaw radar to pick up possible incoming missiles. I like to run a buoy screen from about 5nm away, out to about 25 nm or so, every 5 nm. This should pick up subs inside to slightly outside of their torpedo range (about 20nm for a Mk48, is it?), as well as early warning of a torpedo shot. If you detect a torpedo, draw a line backward from it's course and search along that line. I'll also drop Silex missile launched torpedos along that line to mess up his attack and/or flush him out. American subs with towed arrays are hard for me to hit. I had to get him to use up all his noisemakers.

[Crustacean]

Originally posted by ramjbjb:

Submarines are in general quieter than surface vessels. For many reasons. By design, to starters, but also because they can use the environment around them in a much more dynamic way than surface ships generally do.

Never trust your onboard sonars only when fearing a sub is nearby - they usually only hear the submarine when he's so close he's already launching torpedoes.

use helicopters. Or ASW aircraft. Drop sonobuoys in front of your force, covering the path you'll travel through, and drop some of them on the flanks too.

Also - active sonar has a much more limited range than your passive sonar (high frequency sounds get absorbed faster by the water, and active sonar is always high frequency as it has to give good resolution on returning pings). Don't ping away your position. And if at all possible, don't go faster than medium speed (so the sub has trouble hearing you to begin with).

so whats the range of sonobuoys? i dont recall it saying in the tooltip so i am not sure how far out to put them

[Witcher]

Originally posted by Crustacean:

Originally posted by ramjbjb:

Submarines are in general quieter than surface vessels. For many reasons. By design, to starters, but also because they can use the environment around them in a much more dynamic way than surface ships generally do.

Never trust your onboard sonars only when fearing a sub is nearby - they usually only hear the submarine when he's so close he's already launching torpedoes.

use helicopters. Or ASW aircraft. Drop sonobuoys in front of your force, covering the path you'll travel through, and drop some of them on the flanks too.

Also - active sonar has a much more limited range than your passive sonar (high frequency sounds get absorbed faster by the water, and active sonar is always high frequency as it has to give good resolution on returning pings). Don't ping away your position. And if at all possible, don't go faster than medium speed (so the sub has trouble hearing you to begin with).

so whats the range of sonobuoys? i dont recall it saying in the tooltip so i am not sure how far out to put them

I normally drop them around 15-20 kms apart.

[Crustacean]

Originally posted by Witcher:

Originally posted by Crustacean:

so whats the range of sonobuoys? i dont recall it saying in the tooltip so i am not sure how far out to put them

I normally drop them around 15-20 kms apart.

https://imgur.com/a/jQ5ZNFv

ok what am i doing wrong? i know the layout is rather messy as i caouldnt tell the paths i had for all the other ones but with all these bouyes out how am i only detecting a torp when its too late and no sub

[Witcher]

Your bouys are closer together at the back than front of task force. I normally drop bouys 15 km apart on the left/right side in front of TF.

You can also use Mission Editor to open .ini file to see where are the hostile subs. Before someone say that's cheating, this is a solo game with mods encouraged and Mission Editor is the only way to change units AND move objectives that are unnecessarily too far away - takes more than 5 hours to complete.

[Crustacean]

Originally posted by Witcher:

Your bouys are closer together at the back than front of task force. I normally drop bouys 15 km apart on the left/right side in front of TF.

You can also use Mission Editor to open .ini file to see where are the hostile subs. Before someone say that's cheating, this is a solo game with mods encouraged and Mission Editor is the only way to change units AND move objectives that are unnecessarily too far away - takes more than 5 hours to complete.

that makes sense, the issue was the sub engages in that mission pretty early on and i only knew the sub was to the south somewhere so i was starting close by and moving out. I did end up taking the sub out which allowed me to take care of the rest of the task force.

So with the Buoys, what is the range they can see? because the sub was pretty close to a couple other buoys maybe 15-25 nmi i would say and it couldnt pick it up, so I am not sure how close together they have to be.
When i knew the general area the sub was, i took a helicopter and dropped a line of buoys in front of the sub all within 1-2 nmi of each other which ended up detecting the sub finally so i could actually engage it with torps

[Witcher]

My bouys can detect subs within 20 kms. If you find subs detect you first, ensure all vessels Active sonar is off and vessels are travelling no higher than Standard speed.

Also P-3C and S-3 can drop bouys much faster than helios.