Sub Hunting

[hellfire272]

I've spent most of the day playing the Campaign Arctic Gauntlet. I've really been enjoying it so far, But for the love of god, I'm growing beyond frustrated at how Broken (OP) Subs seem to be. I had to replay a mission 4 times because even while operating spaced at 1/3 speed, in a massive grid of Sonobouys spaced at 10NM intervals, with 4 Choppers performing combs with the magnetic detectors, The Enemy Subs and their torpedoes never once, ever, were detected. Not even a noise. IDK what Im doing wrong, but im sick of my ships randomly exploding from a threat I never see, and can't seem to detect, even when doing all of the correct things, according to all of the videos and tutorials I've watched and read. Can someone please enlighten me as to what Im doing wrong, or is this an issue a lot of others seem to have?

[Lanzfeld]

Originally posted by Cladecq:

Originally posted by Lanzfeld:

I think it has to be the dropping aircraft. Not 100% sure though.

No it isn't. Any aircraft and ships can read ANY buoys. Just test it.
And I verified than you CAN have buoy signals beyond 15NM, just going to 1000ft height.

Anyway, you don't really care about this, because, if there is someting the buoy can catch in its area, he will do WAY before the helo or even the plane will be out of his range.
So, the "blabla" about : you don't have to do a sonobuoy pattern longer than 15 is pure BS...
I used to find and kill so many subs with a 40 to 50 NM pattern I just know people who say that don't know a thing about it.

The anger in this one is strong. Easy to trigger he is. LOL.

AND HE IS WRONG. Just tested it in Stealth's sub hunt mission. P-3's even at 3000 feet and the bouys say that they are out of range. (15 miles max... this is for the US bouys)

AND HE IS WRONG AGAIN. You want to monitor the bouys because, in case you didn't understand, submarines MOVE. You can detect them as they move into range of the bouy.

[Cladecq]

Originally posted by Lanzfeld:

3 pre made patterns.

Hold control and right click for one.
Hold alt and right click for another.
Hold control AND alt and right click for third (largest).

You don't need this
It's WAY more efficient to do it manually.
Just have to press "shift" and clic on the map : more accurate positioning and much better spacing : they are really to close to each others with the automatic option and the path is awfull, take too much time for the helo to drop them.
This control/shift option is totally useless.
It's a fact, not an opinion.
For a good pattern : use 2 helos, 10 NM form each other, trace their lines with map ruler tool to be confortable, and make them zig zag 5 NM on each of their lines along the way your ships will go, release one buoy every 15km (I say km because you can refer to the rule on the map to see that), and NO sub can avoid to be catch in the roughly 20NM large per 40 or 50 NM long you will built in about 1mn of accelerated time you will use for this (at X30).
Of course, as long as your helos are dropping, stay at 2/3 max speed with your ships (1/3 is MUCH better for much better range detection with your TA, about 3 times better detection range !).
and NEVER use the active sonar of the ships.
If you do that, the subs at less than 40 NM of your ships will be detected, even BEFORE they detect and ID you.

It's just very easy and efficient. MANY times more easy and efficient than the "automated" patterns, on a MUCH wider area.
Automated buoy pattern is totally useless, and even a major handicap compared to manual smart pattern. It makes noobs think it's good, but it's not.

[Cladecq]

Originally posted by Lanzfeld:

The anger in this one is strong. Easy to trigger he is. LOL.

AND HE IS WRONG. Just tested it in Stealth's sub hunt mission. P-3's even at 3000 feet and the bouys say that they are out of range. (15 miles max... this is for the US bouys)

AND HE IS WRONG AGAIN. You want to monitor the bouys because, in case you didn't understand, submarines MOVE. You can detect them as they move into range of the bouy.

A sub move at 5 knts, an helo at 130 and a plane at 350....
A buoy have only 1 hour of life.
So let me laught about the "sub moving into range", that is NOT how things works on this game.
if you don't catch them instantly, you will not catch them later.
I have 130 hours already on this game and I can tell you have only a couple of hours on just what you say about ASW...

[supersound99ss]

Originally posted by Cladecq:

Originally posted by Lanzfeld:

The anger in this one is strong. Easy to trigger he is. LOL.

AND HE IS WRONG. Just tested it in Stealth's sub hunt mission. P-3's even at 3000 feet and the bouys say that they are out of range. (15 miles max... this is for the US bouys)

AND HE IS WRONG AGAIN. You want to monitor the bouys because, in case you didn't understand, submarines MOVE. You can detect them as they move into range of the bouy.

A sub move at 5 knts, an helo at 130 and a plane at 350....
A buoy have only 1 hour of life.
So let me laught about the "sub moving into range", that is NOT how things works on this game.
if you don't catch them instantly, you will not catch them later.
I have 130 hours already on this game and I can tell you have only a couple of hours on just what you say about ASW...

And what about torpedoes? That is exactly how I found the 2nd Charlie in the Charlies mission. I was dropping my bouys too close while he was farther out. He fired torpedoes. My farthest bouys heard them, then sent the helos down the bearing.

[Lanzfeld]

So at 5 knots a sub will move 5 NM in that one hour. Not to mention that subs also move at 10 knots or more sometimes. (so 10 NM in that ONE hour). That is certainly enough to move into range of a bouy.

[Cladecq]

Originally posted by Lanzfeld:

So at 5 knots a sub will move 5 NM in that one hour. Not to mention that subs also move at 10 knots or more sometimes. (so 10 NM in that ONE hour). That is certainly enough to move into range of a bouy.

And so, during one hour, what are you doing yourself ? sleeping ? drinking some tea ? ;op
Of course, once you've "cleaned" an area, you start cleaning the borders of this area, with helo and plane MUCH faster than the sub.
Do you see the point ?
The sub just can't avoid to be detected, and if you didn't detect him on your first grid, you will do elarging it, BEFORE he could snake under.

With the way I proceed, I still wait for the first "challenging" sub hunt map at this time.
the most downloaded sub hunt map on the workshop, "barney incident" from wolfpack, I needed between 5 and 7 minutes to complete the first time and 2 minutes the second time.
With only 8 buoys each time (the search area is really to small...)
Because I exactly know what I'm doing in ASW, maybe because I play this kind of games for more than 30 years (I was a Dangerous Waters beta tester in charge of debugging TMA, looong time ago).

I didn't checked, but I 100% trust you about the 15 NM of sono range.
My bad on this one, I never tested this.
But As I describe the way I use them, you understand I really don't care they just have 15NM range. I hope you do.

[Cladecq]

Originally posted by Lanzfeld:

So at 5 knots a sub will move 5 NM in that one hour. Not to mention that subs also move at 10 knots or more sometimes. (so 10 NM in that ONE hour). That is certainly enough to move into range of a bouy.

A sub at 10 knts is detected at maximum range from a buoy (say 10 NM) and at more than 30 NM, (yes thirty nautical miles, in normal condition, sea 3 and no rain) from a ship at 1/3 speed with TA, simply checking above and under the layer periodically.
This, I tested MANY times.
So, if the sub go above 5 knts, it's even MUCH more easier to catch him.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Originally posted by Lanzfeld:

So at 5 knots a sub will move 5 NM in that one hour. Not to mention that subs also move at 10 knots or more sometimes. (so 10 NM in that ONE hour). That is certainly enough to move into range of a bouy.

Add to that that "being in range" depends on the sub, the soviet subs and torps can be picked up quite easily, a Los Angeles running silent can be <2nm from buoy and still not detected, same with the real stealthy D/E subs.

It is entirely possible to miss them, especially when running large grids and being away from buoy for the short time they actually are detected.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Originally posted by Cladecq:

A sub at 10 knts is detected at maximum range from a buoy (say 10 NM)
So, if the sub go above 5 knts, it's even MUCH more easier to catch him.

Buoys are by definition always above the layer, a Los Angeles can comfortably run deep at 10kts and laugh at your 10nm buoy, that isn't nearly close enough to detect it.

[Cladecq]

Originally posted by whatdoesthisbuttondo?:

Buoys are by definition always above the layer, a Los Angeles can comfortably run deep at 10kts and laugh at your 10nm buoy, that isn't nearly close enough to detect it.

Prove me wrong with a scenario, at this time, ALL sub hunt scenario I tested prove you are wrong.
If you find one, I will make a video to illustrate what I say.
Maybe 10 NM is quite a bit, I said above I always separate my buoy about 15 km (8 NM) in a grid (and not in a line).
At this time, I still wait a single sub to avoid to be detected on my patterns.
I can't wait you find one for me :o)

The only challenging sub hunt mission at this time is with ships with no helo and no TA.
And even with this, If you are russian, the RBU 6000 will kill your ADCAP with one or 2 salvo.

And buoy are NOT "by definition" above the layer.
They are above the layer in THIS game, at THIS time.
That's is not at all "by definition"...
IRL and in some games, like DW, you can choose above or under the layer, active or passive.
All in all, it's at least 4 different sorts and not "by definition"...

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Originally posted by Cladecq:

Originally posted by whatdoesthisbuttondo?:

Buoys are by definition always above the layer, a Los Angeles can comfortably run deep at 10kts and laugh at your 10nm buoy, that isn't nearly close enough to detect it.

Prove me wrong with a scenario, at this time, ALL sub hunt scenario I tested prove you are wrong.
If you find one, I will make a video to illustrate what I say.

I already gave you one, Los Angeles or similarly stealthy sub, e.g. the german D/E subs.

The soviet subs are easy to detect, even the modern ones. That isn't true for the modern US subs at all.

Detection range running 5kts above the layer for the Los Angeles using the soviet RGB-NM-1 buoys is 2.32nm only at sea state 4, and less if below layer (or faster sub if you prefer).

Casting a wide net doesn't cut it for these subs, especially not if you don't maintain contact with your buoys at all times.

And it doesn't matter what buoys can do IRL or in other games, what matters is what we have in this game.

[HofVanStrudel]

I find asw easy i was surprised that i destroy the sub in the scenarious without actually iding them

[Cladecq]

Barney incident in 2 minutes :
https://youtu.be/wOdwKZ7csMQ
Please, give me a scenario where I have to hunt a 688.
We will be fixed... ;op
I just created a youtube channel for seapower (I have others for others things), so now I will make tutorial vids about seapower.
Like this one.

edit : just remember the barney incident scenario is in the WORST weather possible, in good weather, detection is even much easier and probably between 3 to 4 times more distant...

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

If you refuse to create your own scenario, why not just edit the one above (Barney incident) and replace the soviet subs with LAs?

There is quite a difference in hunting the noisiest subs in the game compared to hunting one of the stealthiest...

You'll even have the advantage of knowing exactly where the subs are to start with.

[Julhelm]

Originally posted by Lanzfeld:

and yes the red subs in this game are much quieter than they were IRL. Devs love that Russian bias.

This is simply not true. Every Soviet submarine in the game is louder than the US counterpart of the same generation.