AIM-54 Phoenix US vs Iran, same missile

[101GHOST]

If you put F-14 Tomcats from Iran and USA against each other the iranian ones launch ultra precise Phoenix missiles that almost never miss, you can maneuver, drop altitude, chaff... it´s useless. Iranian Tomcats got sure kills almost all the time.

However US Tomcats got the downgrade version or I don´t know why the Phoenix always misses. Even against non-manouver targets that go straight line, no chaff, altitude change, no nothing... and they almost always miss.

Why? It´s bonkers

[Cap'n Darwin]

Sounds a bit odd. Did you review the data for both aircraft and missiles?

[catplane]

I just fired about 15 USN-Phoenix on an AWACS.... the first 14 missed.

[Julhelm]

Interesting as both aircraft have the exact same radar and exact same missile. The only difference off the top of my head is that the USN F-14 has TCS and drop tanks and the Alicats do not.

[Julhelm]

I guess the question at hand is if the US F-14s are always inaccurate or if it's only when you are playing them. Are they better when they shoot at you?

[Cap'n Darwin]

Is it possible the US version is relying on the TCS over the radar?

[_RAM_]

Allah guides iranian phoenixes to unfaithful. That's why they always hit the target. On the other side americans phoenixes guided by faith in democracy. Probably you havent one and they all keep missing.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Hmm, my helicopters get shot at by them pretty regularly in Hormuz, and as long as I change altitude and hit the deck it's a guaranteed miss.

[101GHOST]

Originally posted by Julhelm:

Interesting as both aircraft have the exact same radar and exact same missile. The only difference off the top of my head is that the USN F-14 has TCS and drop tanks and the Alicats do not.

I played only as USN, I will try IRIAF in a new gameplay. I tried to micro and they fail to hit, I let them shot at will putting the Tomcat in "weapons free" status and got the same result.

Other odd behavior is that after firing AIM-54 the status on the Tomcat reads as "guiding AIM-54" ¿Guiding what? Is not a Sparrow, the Phoenix is a fire and forget weapon.

Another problem is default weapon config for the Tomcat is 1 AIM-54, 2 AIM-7 and 2 AIM-9 The regular setup for Tomcats in USN is a config called "Two of each", in that setup the F-14 carries 2 AIM-54, not a single one.

In fact I read "F-14 tomcat" by Arthur Reed, "Fighter Country" by Parsons and Nelson, "F-14 in Combat" by Squadron Signal and I did not see a single pic of a Tomcat with a single Phoenix. Even the iranians with their "Phoenix scarce" because of the faulty thermal batterys always flied with a pair of AIM-54 and not a single one.

The only instance of a single "Fox 3" missile in a Tomcat i have seen is the test of Hawk missiles the iranians did because of the battery issue with the Phoenix.

[Warspite]

Originally posted by 101GHOST:

Other odd behavior is that after firing AIM-54 the status on the Tomcat reads as "guiding AIM-54" ¿Guiding what? Is not a Sparrow, the Phoenix is a fire and forget weapon.

As I understand it, this is correct. The AIM-54 is guided by the F-14's radar for the first part of its flight, before its own internal radar activates and guides it for the terminal phase.

[Mr.Gold]

Originally posted by Warspite:

Originally posted by 101GHOST:

Other odd behavior is that after firing AIM-54 the status on the Tomcat reads as "guiding AIM-54" ¿Guiding what? Is not a Sparrow, the Phoenix is a fire and forget weapon.

As I understand it, this is correct. The AIM-54 is guided by the F-14's radar for the first part of its flight, before its own internal radar activates and guides it for the terminal phase.

Yup. You need to get the missile in range of it's radar. Once the 54 goes Pitbull you can do whatever you like.

[Thewood]

I think the AIM-54 can be "fire and forget", but sucks before its onboard radar activates. In guided mode, it gets a mid-course correction any time on route. At a specific distance, the onboard radar activates. But the F-14 can turn away and the AIM-54 will continue to fly towards the original point and activate its radar. If the enemy aircraft has maneuvered, its rarely going to hit it.

[kingfhb]

There should be options to limit loadouts for specific countries. Iran doesn't possess the Phoenix missile for their F-14's.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo?]

Originally posted by kingfhb:

There should be options to limit loadouts for specific countries. Iran doesn't possess the Phoenix missile for their F-14's.

They did receive the missiles together with the planes.

There are claims that US technicians sabotaged the missiles prior to leaving the country.

There are claims of 62 air-to-air kills with the AIM-54A by IRIAF against Iraq in the Fist Gulf War.

Whatever you chose to believe, they did in fact have the missiles at some point. If there are any of them left today is not relevant for the game.

[hmh461]

Originally posted by _RAM_:

Allah guides iranian phoenixes to unfaithful. That's why they always hit the target. On the other side americans phoenixes guided by faith in democracy. Probably you havent one and they all keep missing.

Not sure if I should award accolades or contact someone?

[supersound99ss]

Originally posted by whatdoesthisbuttondo?:

Originally posted by kingfhb:

There should be options to limit loadouts for specific countries. Iran doesn't possess the Phoenix missile for their F-14's.

They did receive the missiles together with the planes.

There are claims that US technicians sabotaged the missiles prior to leaving the country.

There are claims of 62 air-to-air kills with the AIM-54A by IRIAF against Iraq in the Fist Gulf War.

Whatever you chose to believe, they did in fact have the missiles at some point. If there are any of them left today is not relevant for the game.

They even tried to make more by copying some of the design and mating with Hawk missiles they did have.

I read the Iraqis learned to fear the Tomcat's radar and run away when it started tracking them. So tells me they definitely did score some BVR kills with the Phoenix.