Getting AI subs to launch cruise missiles

[Daedalus]

I'm trying to build a mission playing as blue where AI red uses echo ii subs to launch cruise missiles at the blue surface fleet. However no matter what I do it seems like the AI won't launch cruise missiles from subs. I've tried different classes like Oscar and Charlie, giving them all the intel they need to get a targeting solution such as a tu95 bear (spawn with radar on) and multiple spy ships, and still nothing. I've also tried playing red in this scenario and can confirm the ISR assets I've placed can find and identify the blue ships.

Has anyone been able to get this to work? Maybe something I'm missing or possibly just an early access limitation of the AI. I've tried experimenting with the "mission type" dropdown in the group screen but so far as I can tell it doesn't make the AI do anything different.

[Cap'n Darwin]

Does the depth of the subs matter? Do they need to be periscope depth to receive radio inputs from the bears?

[supersound99ss]

Had the same problem with the same sub. I ended up using F10 to get debug and took command manually to fire. Was trying to test the weapon tracking for SS-N-3. I don't even think it responded to me right clicking to attack the target while submerged. I had to manually surface it, enable the FCR, and then it fired.

[Daedalus]

@Cap'n Darwin Good idea but I don't think this game models that aspect of communication between subs and aircraft/surface ships. At least as player it seems like a sub can target and launch on any sensor track. As in all your assets can see tracks created by the sensors of other units regardless of where they are. But maybe I'm missing something here.

@supersound99ss I think that last part is intentional. As far as I know Echo II can only launch while on the surface and needs its targeting radar deployed.

[Tero]

I've been doing some testing as well and I'm getting similar results with the Oscar. One thing you can check is if you right click the target and select "information" it will tell you "Detected By" and for example it will display "Oscar | Sensor | Passive Sonar." You can also check the status of your vessel to see what they're doing. For example, even though I have a target detected and within range with "Weapons Free" it only says "Status: Loitering." When it engages a target it will say "Status: Aligning" when firing the SS-N-19 (P-700).

I noticed that if you go into the F10 menu and enable Tools->Subs AI for Player: On, that it seems to only want to engage surface contacts with torpedoes. It will move and gives a status update of "building solution on track" then it launches torpedoes.

[CloudPiercer]

It wont work for me either. When I ordered a launch, it did a U turn and sped up flank ahead

[Daedalus]

@Tero Thanks for the advice; I didn't even know there was an f10 menu until you mentioned it. I will investigate. Regarding the information panel however, I understand what you're saying but I don't believe that's my issue here. In the case you mentioned of an Oscar, the Oscar itself doesn't need to detect the target with it's sensors, right? I honestly don't know. I assumed given the ranges of these weapons the Oscar would launch on a target detected by some other sensor like a TU95 passing targeting info to it.

@coastiestevie are you talking about when you're giving orders to a sub under your control? That works fine for me; it's only the enemy AI controlled subs that don't seem to want to launch their missiles. If you're just selecting the sub and right clicking on a target that would be your problem as it appears that the default behavior for the right click attack order makes them fire torpedoes, hence why they speed up to close the distance. Try this, it's what I do and it works every time, click on the weapon you want to use in the taskbar at the bottom (IE SS-N-19 for Oscar I) then click on the target. Or you can right click on the weapon and choose a salvo amount and then left click on target.

[Tero]

Originally posted by Daedalus:

@Tero Thanks for the advice; I didn't even know there was an f10 menu until you mentioned it. I will investigate. Regarding the information panel however, I understand what you're saying but I don't believe that's my issue here. In the case you mentioned of an Oscar, the Oscar itself doesn't need to detect the target with it's sensors, right? I honestly don't know. I assumed given the ranges of these weapons the Oscar would launch on a target detected by some other sensor like a TU95 passing targeting info to it.

@coastiestevie are you talking about when you're giving orders to a sub under your control? That works fine for me; it's only the enemy AI controlled subs that don't seem to want to launch their missiles. If you're just selecting the sub and right clicking on a target that would be your problem as it appears that the default behavior for the right click attack order makes them fire torpedoes, hence why they speed up to close the distance. Try this, it's what I do and it works every time, click on the weapon you want to use in the taskbar at the bottom (IE SS-N-19 for Oscar I) then click on the target. Or you can right click on the weapon and choose a salvo amount and then left click on target.

I was just saying that's one way you can check if the Oscar is seeing the target on its own so you know it's not just coming from a spotter vessel.

I think the greater issue is the AI itself and it sounds like the devs are prioritizing that. It could be that in the future there are engagement profiles for certain weapons, ships, aircraft, etc. There are similar issues with aircraft carriers that will launch ASW and AEW but won't send aircraft out to attack the player. Maybe we'll have options for more aggressive engagement or to prioritize stealth, etc.

[supersound99ss]

Originally posted by Daedalus:

@Cap'n Darwin Good idea but I don't think this game models that aspect of communication between subs and aircraft/surface ships. At least as player it seems like a sub can target and launch on any sensor track. As in all your assets can see tracks created by the sensors of other units regardless of where they are. But maybe I'm missing something here.

@supersound99ss I think that last part is intentional. As far as I know Echo II can only launch while on the surface and needs its targeting radar deployed.

Oh I know. I meant it wouldn't even engage automatically when I ordered it. So wondering if the AI logic isn't right with the Echo II. It should surface automatically to fire when ordered. Other subs will change depth to the right one for launch missiles.

[Cap'n Darwin]

AI is a not an easy thing to get 100 percent correct for every situation. In the case of the Echo, it could be a conflict in logic where it needs to surface to attack, but having detected enemy ships is wants to dive to avoid detection and attack. These odd corner cases are the bane of wargames programmers as you have to account for each of these possibilities and code for it. That in turn raises the complexity of the code and chances for bugs or logic errors. It will get sorted out over time if the Devs keep at it.

[supersound99ss]

Originally posted by Cap'n Darwin:

AI is a not an easy thing to get 100 percent correct for every situation. In the case of the Echo, it could be a conflict in logic where it needs to surface to attack, but having detected enemy ships is wants to dive to avoid detection and attack. These odd corner cases are the bane of wargames programmers as you have to account for each of these possibilities and code for it. That in turn raises the complexity of the code and chances for bugs or logic errors. It will get sorted out over time if the Devs keep at it.

Yep sounds plausible. Only the Echos would encounter this situation.