New Procedural Wreck Thoughts (Dev)

[SealieP]

The changes in the layouts mean you have considerably dumbed down the wrecks. There's no need for flares anymore. At the most I place two and I really don't need to because the layouts are simple and small. I do it just to remove them from inventory really. I cannot get a difficulty 4 or 5 anymore, is there a bug with that or have you removed them? And I'm not sure if it's been just luck or unluck of the RNG but I only get one wreck per mini area now. What happened to 1, 2, or 3 in one area?

I do like the new rooms and the objects. But I miss some of the old layouts and rooms that you don't see anymore. Deconstructing all the furniture leads to a huge wealth of ore that you don't need in that stage of game anymore so you just junk it. I like getting the smart fabric, but wow you get t2 lockers full of it in no time. There are so many more flares and explosives in the chests and there's no need for them anymore. Again, I have T2 lockers full and I've only done like 5 wrecks.

You can no longer get extra access cards. Which means you can't get the 5 needed for that last small area in Prime. I assume they want you to go and get the cards and not go into the vault rooms? That's mean. I liked excess of those because you could get circuit boards from them. At a minimum allow us to make them or add them in the 4 procedural wreck off Prime so you can get them for that last area.

I keep encountering bugs.

The first door after you go down the initial stairs is closed after returning to prime to drop off goods. You have to sit and wait for 30 seconds for it to slowly open to go back inside.

Vault safes are loading without anything in them behind doors that open with the cores.

Some newer items are not deconstructing and it's random. But that's new since the update 1.404 just a few hours ago.

Some posters are not allowed to be picked up. It seems to be the ones I already had, but why can't I get more? I should be able to, or is this a bug?

And a note on the posters. I like them, but putting them up takes a learning curve. They seem to always be defaulted to pointing in the opposite direction of the wall. But you don't know this because you can't see anything. If you just click the wall it hangs it backwards and you can't pick it back up. You can't deconstruct that room anymore either. You have to immediate turn it to be able to see the arrows and the green for placement. It just seems you should have it always facing you so you can see the arrows right away.

I wish you could make the layout more difficult at least for a level 4 or 5 difficulty and bring those back. Some of us didn't have an issue with them and enjoyed them. And more access keys please.

[SmokedHalibut]

Definitely don't make the wrecks more complex. No-one actually liked them to be horrific, it's just a few lone voices that enjoyed that and no-one bought the game to be frustrated. :)

Feel free to put a custom game setting in 'hyper frustrating silly wrecks that make zero sense and couldn't possibly exist in real life because that's not how ships work' to satisfy a handful of people who want some kind of random seed and insanely unpleasant experiences. After all, that's what hardcore modes are to most of us, it's fine if they want to torment themselves, just as long as the main player base isn't subject to their preference for not enjoying their casual games.

[SealieP]

Originally posted by SmokedHalibut:

Definitely don't make the wrecks more complex. No-one actually liked them to be horrific, it's just a few lone voices that enjoyed that and no-one bought the game to be frustrated. :)

Feel free to put a custom game setting in 'hyper frustrating silly wrecks that make zero sense and couldn't possibly exist in real life because that's not how ships work' to satisfy a handful of people who want some kind of random seed and insanely unpleasant experiences. After all, that's what hardcore modes are to most of us, it's fine if they want to torment themselves, just as long as the main player base isn't subject to their preference for not enjoying their casual games.

I still don't understand why so many complained when you had flares and signs you could use. But I understand that people are different and some can't conceptualize layouts in their head. I'm an older gamer where you had to do such things because games were in text and you had to do it that way. But with flares that you could change color and signs, it was so easy to navigate.

[Bob]

Originally posted by SmokedHalibut:

Definitely don't make the wrecks more complex. No-one actually liked them to be horrific, it's just a few lone voices that enjoyed that and no-one bought the game to be frustrated. :)

Feel free to put a custom game setting in 'hyper frustrating silly wrecks that make zero sense and couldn't possibly exist in real life because that's not how ships work' to satisfy a handful of people who want some kind of random seed and insanely unpleasant experiences. After all, that's what hardcore modes are to most of us, it's fine if they want to torment themselves, just as long as the main player base isn't subject to their preference for not enjoying their casual games.

Even if that is correct, it is arguable that they should add a difficulty option to allow for more complex wrecks, seeing as they do seem to care about those who enjoy more difficult experiences; with the options they already have that is.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by SealieP:

I still don't understand why so many complained when you had flares and signs you could use. But I understand that people are different and some can't conceptualize layouts in their head. I'm an older gamer where you had to do such things because games were in text and you had to do it that way. But with flares that you could change color and signs, it was so easy to navigate.

that's not the issue.

it's about whether wrecks are worth the time investment. they already aren't that useful as it is.

more complex wrecks would need a proportionally better reward, but there isn't really anything in the game that would fit the bill right now.

i imagine most people do wrecks until they either a) get 8x 1200% tree seed or b) get the terratoken ending and then stop doing them.

i haven't played the new update yet, but previous update the wrecks definitely felt like too much of a chore.

[SealieP]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

that's not the issue.

it's about whether wrecks are worth the time investment. they already aren't that useful as it is.

more complex wrecks would need a proportionally better reward, but there isn't really anything in the game that would fit the bill right now.

i imagine most people do wrecks until they either a) get 8x 1200% tree seed or b) get the terratoken ending and then stop doing them.

i haven't played the new update yet, but previous update the wrecks definitely felt like too much of a chore.

You completely lost me by saying you making most people doing wrecks until 8 trees or getting to the end game. Where did you get that idea? There are a ton of people who play and don't end the game. Why stop at 8 trees? Why 8? I do things in 5s. I have 25 trees of max bonus. That's your issue there. You just play to end the game. So don't do the wrecks then because I really don't even start doing them until I'm closing in on 5TTI. I do them because I like them. Because it brings in loot. Because it helps to build even more machines. If you don't like them and find them a chore then you never have to actually do them. They were intended for you to begin with.

[sdentetsu]

Originally posted by SealieP:

... I cannot get a difficulty 4 or 5 anymore, is there a bug with that or have you removed them? ...

it sometimes helps reading the patchnotes:

...
- Wreck are now classified in 3 difficulty (previously 5)
...

i'm an avid wreck-runner with several hundred wreck-runs, and i gotta say i didn't like the over-complex wrecks. i see em as a nice little minigame inside this sandbox-worldbuilder- nothing more.

[EleventhStar]

Originally posted by SealieP:

You completely lost me by saying you making most people doing wrecks until 8 trees or getting to the end game. Where did you get that idea? There are a ton of people who play and don't end the game.

you can look at the global achievements to see this is not the case.

Why stop at 8 trees? Why 8?

that's the maximum amount a fuse can boost. and buying fuses is easier than farming seeds.

I do them because I like them.

so does everybody else.

Because it brings in loot. Because it helps to build even more machines.

it doesn't. the only reason to do wrecks is for the unique things in them, everything else you can get more efficiently the regular way, especially if you don't end the game. and the more complex you make the wrecks, the worse it gets. that was my whole argument.

last patch one of the 5/5 wrecks took me an hour orso to clear, i think it's safe to say that's a bit on the long side for what you get out of it. (and i imagine it takes even longer if you do the flare method.)

[SealieP]

Originally posted by EleventhStar:

Originally posted by SealieP:

You completely lost me by saying you making most people doing wrecks until 8 trees or getting to the end game. Where did you get that idea? There are a ton of people who play and don't end the game.

you can look at the global achievements to see this is not the case.

Why stop at 8 trees? Why 8?

that's the maximum amount a fuse can boost. and buying fuses is easier than farming seeds.

I do them because I like them.

so does everybody else.

Because it brings in loot. Because it helps to build even more machines.

it doesn't. the only reason to do wrecks is for the unique things in them, everything else you can get more efficiently the regular way, especially if you don't end the game. and the more complex you make the wrecks, the worse it gets. that was my whole argument.

last patch one of the 5/5 wrecks took me an hour orso to clear, i think it's safe to say that's a bit on the long side for what you get out of it. (and i imagine it takes even longer if you do the flare method.)

Let's just say we game differently. Global achievements doesn't list who has 300TTI for a typical game, or how many saved games they play, or how much the play a game after they get the ending.

How can you say everyone likes them and then complain about doing them? You don't really like them. You just want something easy with no thought and get...I don't know what out of it because you later said doing wrecks doesn't get you loot. Whatever. I fill up two vehicles worth of loot from a 5/5 wreck. And in that loot I get fuses and guess what, more seeds and other things that do in fact give the components for more machines, which I build and add more fuses and more rockets.

No idea why it took you so long to do a wreck. Maybe if you used flares you would have found it went a hell of a lot quicker.

Listen, just because you like little work, less time, and total reward doesn't mean there aren't those who play different. Why you are trying to prevent those players from enjoying the game as they play it I'll never know. If you didn't like the 5/5 wrecks don't go into them. You should have gone for the 5/1 wrecks and then you get your rarity up and do less work in an easy setting. Why can't those of us who didn't have trouble with the 5/5 wreck still have them? I'm not saying you can't make the easy ones for those who can't deal with the harder, I'm saying having a range and bring back the harder. I'll never understand people who can't fathom other ways and allow for all to be happy and only want their way done.

[SmokedHalibut]

Yes, all those of us who say we've used flares and signs (which don't actually persist properly for that one wreck and are buggy anyway) are just lying to you or stupid. It couldn't be that the wrecks have been a nightmare.

And even if they weren't a nightmare....

They still don't make any sense whatsoever. Humans design mazes to be mazes. We do not design ships to be mazes. The Starship Enterprises ridiculous Jeffries tubes make no sense. It's a ship and volume doesn't matter, only mass, so you'd just have a maintenance corridor there, not a crawlspace. But you would never bother with a corridor when you could have a room. Corridors connect rooms, they aren't rooms in themselves (although yes, you can argue they're just a specific type of room). Hallways serve the function of both a junction between rooms, and a room combining the two to save space and building material.

The ships we find as wrecks make no sense at all. Therefore they break the suspension of disbelief.

[SealieP]

Originally posted by SmokedHalibut:

Yes, all those of us who say we've used flares and signs (which don't actually persist properly for that one wreck and are buggy anyway) are just lying to you or stupid. It couldn't be that the wrecks have been a nightmare.

And even if they weren't a nightmare....

They still don't make any sense whatsoever. Humans design mazes to be mazes. We do not design ships to be mazes. The Starship Enterprises ridiculous Jeffries tubes make no sense. It's a ship and volume doesn't matter, only mass, so you'd just have a maintenance corridor there, not a crawlspace. But you would never bother with a corridor when you could have a room. Corridors connect rooms, they aren't rooms in themselves (although yes, you can argue they're just a specific type of room). Hallways serve the function of both a junction between rooms, and a room combining the two to save space and building material.

The ships we find as wrecks make no sense at all. Therefore they break the suspension of disbelief.

First, I have had no issues with the wrecks except when they are bugged. I've never had to use signs ever so i don't know if they are bugged but I know people use them successfully for figuring them out. I know people struggle with them because they don't have whatever it is that others so for internally mapping something. None of that matters. If you struggle, stick with the low difficulty wrecks. For those of us who don't have a problem, give us the high difficulty. What's the problem with that? Seriously? Stop trying to prevent other people's fun because yo u don't find it fun.

Second, it's a damn computer game. Stop with this nonsense of what's real and what isn't and suspension of disbelief. It's a game. You're stilling in your boxers in the basement playing it. I'm in my pajamas in the living room waiting to take out the dogs after it stops raining. It's not real. None of it is. It's just a game. It's fake. Let make believe wrecks have a difficulty for those who like it and don't find them difficult.

[MAHAL]

an alle ES IST EIN SPIEL wenn ihr realismus wollt dann geht in ein kriesgsgebiet . echt mann immer nur mimimimimimimi. lehnt euch zurück ung geniesst es.

[SmokedHalibut]

Sealie doesn't know what he's talking about. Suspension of disbelief is a requirement for all fiction. This is not a thing you get an option on. It's why people come out of the cinema and say a film was just silly because it breaks it's own rules. You can have John Wick do his insane gunplay and survive falling off a building. If he suddenly casts a level 5 fireball, it ruins it. Gandalf can't whip out a machine gun.

And I don't wear boxers, I've been an adult since the last millennium. I wear jockey shorts - much more comfortable for me. I do wish we had a basement or cellar though, they sound useful but it'd be insane to have that in this house as the water table would be an issue and we'd never have been able to afford a country estate that would have one. Very rare things in the UK.

And I've supported a custom game setting for extra complex wrecks. But I want to loot the wrecks in my game. I don't care about the wrecks in your game. I want the loot that's level gated behind difficulty.

Moving on from people who don't agree with the devs who clearly agree with the vast majority of us who want the wrecks to be an enjoyable thing you can realistically explore...

I did my first procedural portal wreck today after the patch - Rarity 1, Difficulty 3 which I chose deliberately to see how it worked out. Alright, I wanted it to be Rarity 3 Difficulty 3 but couldn't be bothered to wait and didn't have enough crystals for some options anyway. Regardless...

There were two wreck entrances for me, and I haven't fully explored either. The main one was very complicated and had at least two levels - there were ladders as well as staircases. The new rooms are nice, and on multiple levels themselves.

What was new to me was that large parts of the ship were flooded with invisible water, which was weird. Not like the wreck on Prime of the 'stargate' or whatever the big circular thing is, where it floods and below a certain level is flooded. It was more... special than that.

Going through the ship, going upwards in a corridor with air in it, wait, why is my oxygen low? As I kept going back, with oxygen cannisters this time, I eventually managed to find the fusion generator which opened doors but didn't clear the flooding (if it had cleared the flooding that would have been a chef's kiss moment tbh - perhaps worth thinking about).

Not only that but the corridor to the vault which was flooded, had air and was angled up - so the vault is flooded but at a higher level than unflooded areas. There were also staircases you could go up and find flooding with none below.

So.... my guess is there's just a bug there since it'd be weird to start doing flooded wrecks deliberately and have it work like that.

Although not as weird as having ships designed by humans that are mazes. I don't care what anyone says, that's just silly and completely non-immersive*.

*This is not a pun about almost drowning due to being immersed in magic invisible water that's not found a natural level on the bottom of the ship but is at all heights. :D

[red.adept]

Before the update, I had one wreck with invisible water. I figure that part of the wreck was under the surface water and thus the system treated it as underwater.

I only noticed because I saw my O2 at 50%.

After the update I actually had an entrance to a wreck that's mostly submerged! I had to swim to the ladder, but when I went down there was air.

[Aguirre the Mad]

What does it mean when you refer to wrecks as 5/5 or 5/1?????

[John Strangueur]

Originally posted by Aguirre the Mad:

What does it mean when you refer to wrecks as 5/5 or 5/1?????

They should talk about the treasure's rarity levels and difficulty levels. The two values ​​to take into account before choosing to which destination to open your procedural portal.
Each goes from 1 to 5. And since this update the difficulty index goes from 1 to 3 but the rarity index remains 1 to 5