The optimizer and fuses were a mistake

[Sid Da Bear]

as a concept, they made a fair amount of sense. But to me, at late game; they become the only thing to do. I sit and wait for my trade rockets to bring me tokens, I make optimizers and drop fuses, and... wait some more. There is not a whole lot of purpose in doing anything else, from a game mechanics standpoint.

Plant production fuses alone; I got 24, made 8 optimizers and dropped 3 plant fuses in each, next to a couple of tree spread 3s

My total plant production went from 210T/s to over 600t/s, with the base. Why would I ever both with another tree spreader? my energy would be better directed at producing more trade rocket materials to get more fuses.

Why make more Ore Extractor 3's when I can just place a few dozen optimizers around and have nearly infinite resources?

Up to this point, the primary (grow the Terraformation Index) and secondary (explore and build) objectives of the game have been, mostly at least, intertwined. Focusing on one typically had a significant impact on the other.
Now I can choose one or the other. If I focus on TI, im basically just sitting around waiting for my trade rockets. If I focus on building, i am sacrificing probably 90-95% of my TI growth.

Ultimately, I don't have a good solution for this; but I wanted to make my thoughts known to the community in the hopes of getting perspective from others that are enjoying the game.

[dognosh]

Restrict all machinery to only being able to use 1, 2 or 3 optimisers

[Sid Da Bear]

Restricting the number of optimizers I think is the best solution, but at that point we need a better way of determining whether or not a give machine/optimizer is completely utilized.

[satans_favourite]

if you want to nerf them, just remove the stacking bonus.
but the fuses and optimizers were designed for 1 group of players who needed some help. the players who want to build small bases but stil want to get the terraforming points without the game turning into a satisfactory like game. and for them they are perfect.

[ColoradoKid]

I agree with either adjusting them a bit somehow. Perhaps making the fuses cost 3x the current price, not allowing multiple for a single machine, or even an option at game setup to restrict their use in some way if a player wants. That would allow them to still be something to look forward to getting but keep it still challenging. Either way, they are still a fun addition.

[Mr. Fibble]

After my first try of the fuses I came to the decision that I'd stick to the t1 optimiser, only use fuses that had been scavenged rather than bought and leave the game breaking OPness of stacking to youtubers on the hunt for clicks, likes and subscribes.

[Admiral Ikhlas Jr]

引用自 ferk57：

I got to agree with this. The optimizers need nerfed a bit. I was able to go from 150PTi to 1ETi in under 20 hours just by making 300 optimizers. It's just too fast too quick and causes you to spam optimizers.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3052479960

Please, never suggest a nerf to a game. Ever.
That's when things get broken. By devs.

I love the boosters. I am doing as much as possible to move as much as possible underground to allow the surface to look as structure free as possible. Rather than build 200 more fusion gens, I'd rather build a few energy boosters. The same with mining rigs. And everything else. The volume of machines creats hesitation at times. Fewer machines means less of it. I hope.

[Admiral Ikhlas Jr]

If you don't like them, don't use them. That pretty well solves it for you.

[Calydor]

引用自 jwebbed001：

If you don't like them, don't use them.That pretty well solves it for you.

Which isn't feasible. Either the game will be balanced for using a moderate amount of optimizers, in which case those who won't use them will take ages to accomplish their goals, or the game will be balanced for not using optimizers, in which case those who do use them will finish their goals near instantly. There's no good middle ground because of how powerful they are.

[ColoradoKid]

引用自 Calydor：

引用自 jwebbed001：

If you don't like them, don't use them.That pretty well solves it for you.

Which isn't feasible. Either the game will be balanced for using a moderate amount of optimizers, in which case those who won't use them will take ages to accomplish their goals, or the game will be balanced for not using optimizers, in which case those who do use them will finish their goals near instantly. There's no good middle ground because of how powerful they are.

Basically agree. Due to the fact that they are very powerful. So Not allowing overlapping machines, increase cost to 3x, allow customizable attributes to them at game set up as they now have for several others features. Some type of adjustment "seems" like it would be beneficial.

[orbital200974]

IMO they make sense but I build rather than pay attention to IT. I can now build a much smaller base and green the planet. instead of putting machines and generators everywhere to produce electricity.

[trentmare]

I didn't even realize the effects could be stacked, I play the game for relaxing recreation not to impress the world. Silly me. The ability to over power and trash my game world was right there in front of me all along and I missed it! /laughs

[dyonisth]

引用自 jwebbed001：

If you don't like them, don't use them. That pretty well solves it for you.

I totaly agree with you.

When i see players says it should not exist, it remembers me some games where these players, not wanting these boosts, in fact, mean : i dit it the hard way, i demand the other players do the same, even the casual ones.

[Starseed]

引用自 Calydor：

引用自 jwebbed001：

If you don't like them, don't use them.That pretty well solves it for you.

Which isn't feasible. Either the game will be balanced for using a moderate amount of optimizers, in which case those who won't use them will take ages to accomplish their goals, or the game will be balanced for not using optimizers, in which case those who do use them will finish their goals near instantly. There's no good middle ground because of how powerful they are.

引用自 Calydor：

引用自 Starseed：

I see it different. I only use them when I see the need for a boost. Otherwise what more do you expect. There is nothing wrong with their actual purpose. YOU have over used them. So simply use them with moderation and common sense and remove the ones that are creating excessive results.
Another point "for" using them is with the ore extractors, in some caves, there is limited space for them, so it makes sense to place an optimiser instead. But only add one fuse then see if that satisfies the demand and leave it at that. Use them ONLY as demand needs it.

This is like saying to just not use the gun that kills any enemy in one shot in an FPS. The fact that said gun exists is a problem, because a player WILL optimize for maximal killing efficiency.

Same thing here. It doesn't involve plastering your planet in spreaders and optimizers; it involves as many optimizers as you can afford fuses for when you get the last achievement for acquiring space trading tokens and have already bought all the blueprints. That alone suggests they're extremely overpowered.

Perhaps you just need to stop and realise, like others also suggest, its simple really. If you dont like them, dont use them. Like giving a child candy, some will eat them all, like you no doubt! Others will eat them with moderation.

I remember when we were kids, mum gave us 7 lollies every Friday. My brothers would scoff them all down at once. Me, Id have one each day so they would last the week. I even had to hide them so they didnt steal them!

We each have our own strategies but moderation and common sense always wins! And like I said, they are there as a tool to be used as needed, when needed. Checking my production, IF I see a weakness THEN I will use a booster. It also is very handy for caves with limited space for ore mining. But your asking for that option to be removed just because you abuse it then say you dont like it!

[Sid Da Bear]

To address the 'Just don't use it crowd':

Not using optimizers would be like, say, playing a Nuzlocke playthrough of a Pokemon game. It's not part of the base game, its not a selectable modifier, and it is ultimately ENTIRELY self imposed. Which is fine.
Except, it has taken the base difficulty of the game from a 4, to 1.
I dont really want to play a game with a base difficulty of 1. Sure, f***ing about in creative mode can be amusing, but what I feel optimizers have done is largely make anything out of hardcore into a psuedo-creative mode. I don't think it's balanced, I don't think it is the optimal way to enjoy the game, and honestly, it has dropped my motivation to play from a 10 to a 3.

[chutz748]

I can't believe I spent about 12 hours building T2 enhancers filled with fuses. Wow I have no life. In any event I find them useful especially mid game. You can currently find a few dozen of them in chests/wrecks mid game. Wish there were fuses for growing plants faster, not just increasing its output. Or put them near incubators to incubate faster. Or make your tree seeds faster. Currently plant growing is a bottleneck for bio production. Even with like 200 farms going.