Stuck with grinding, need some advice

[Yaridovich]

Hey everyone, I'd like to ask for some advice with getting through the game. I've gone back and forth with the game for months and I never seem to be able to stick to it enough to finish it, which I'd like to - it's been way too long.

The problem is that as much as I like the game, the grinding has been kind of a turn off for me. Whenever I think of getting back into the game and then remembering about the grinding I'll have to go through, I often end up switching to a different game instead.

Right now, what I have for buildings is:

• Smithy
  
• Herbalist's Hut
  
• Campfire
  
• Field Kitchen
  
• Farm (2)
  
• Refuge
  
• Gymnasium
  
• Mud Hut (1)
  
• Cemetery
  
• Supply Depot
  
• Crypt
  
• Intel Center
  
• Watchtower (2)
  
• Forest (1)

None of them are upgraded just yet.

And supplies:

Equipped:

• Alchemist's Shelf
  
• Oak Bed
  
• Blacksmith's Hammer (2)
  
• Shoe Nails
  
• Smoked Ham
  
• Garlic
  
• Silverware

Stored:

• Antique Shelf
  
• Exquisite Mirror
  
• Silver Pendant (2)

And I've been playing as Warrior, beaten the first two expeditions, now I'm farming the 2nd expedition for more resources.

Any advice on what I should do to progress? Any upgrades to focus on?

Thanks in advance!

[Kawayol]

Absolutely do the river ASAP (it's actually rather bizarre how you managed to get forest before unlocking the river, since it's usually harder/takes much more time to collect green orbs for it), because having a river IMMENSELY eases up the looping/resource-farming process. If you're mainly playing as a Warrior, definitely try to collect and equip as much nuts (food), count's chairs, and kitchen knives, as you can. And you definitely lack a lot of farms and mud huts, there should've been at least 11 for each before fighting the 2-nd boss. And the watchtowers should be maxed out ASAP as well, you need to have all four of them built AND all of them should be upgraded to at least level 3. It's insane if you already somehow managed to defeat (more like "suffer through") the Chapter II's boss without having any of that (especially rivers).

However, it should be noted that, in general, just doing the pure "resource farming-only" runs in the Chapter II, will be more easier/comfortable with Necromancer, than with the Warrior. But only if you'll have the river by that point. And try to upgrade cemetery to level 3 at the least.

P.S.
Also, collect and save up as many mirrors as you possibly can, but don't equip them right away, not until you get at least 16 of them. This will equal to 96% of the lightning bolt dodge chance from the magic towers, so at that point, if you equip all 16 (or, hell, maybe even 17) of them, you can nearly instantly 1-shot majority of everything by spamming the said magic tower cards wherever you like to. The said lightning also strikes bosses and they can't avoid it if you have near-100% (or 100%+) chance to dodge it, sooo...yeah. Greatly helps all classes.

[Yaridovich]

Originally posted by Master Chen:

Absolutely do the river ASAP (it's actually rather bizarre how you managed to get forest before unlocking the river, since it's usually harder/takes much more time to collect green orbs for it), because having a river IMMENSELY eases up the looping/resource-farming process. If you're mainly playing as a Warrior, definitely try to collect and equip as much nuts (food), count's chairs, and kitchen knives, as you can. And you definitely lack a lot of farms and mud huts, there should've been at least 11 for each before fighting the 2-nd boss. And the watchtowers should be maxed out ASAP as well, you need to have all four of them built AND all of them should be upgraded to at least level 3. It's insane if you already somehow managed to defeat (more like "suffer through") the Chapter II's boss without having any of that (especially rivers).

P.S.
Also, collect and save up as many mirrors as you possibly can, but don't equip them right away, not until you get at least 16 of them. This will equal to 96% of the lightning bolt dodge chance from the magic towers, so at that point, if you equip all 16 (or, hell, maybe even 17) of them, you can nearly instantly 1-shot majority of everything by spamming the said magic tower cards wherever you like to. The said lightning also strikes bosses and they can't avoid it if you have near-100% (or 100%+) chance to dodge it, sooo...yeah. Greatly helps all classes.

The problem with getting River is having to fight 5+ enemies at once, which is something I usually avoid. Most often, fighting 5+ enemies is tough and potentially wrecks my run. Unless I'm playing on chapter 1, which I usually avoid because of the resource limit.

I read somewhere to just combine Vampire Mansions with Villages so you fight Vampires + Ghouls, but honestly... How? Vampires and Ghouls are both tough enemies, if I have to fight 1 Vampire + 4 Ghouls I just end up royally screwed with how hard it is to kill them all and the hero ends up taking a lot of damage and probably consuming most (or all) his potions.

I'm now sitting at 4/15 Orbs of Expansion needed to unlock River and I'm not looking forward to having to get 11 of them.

And yeah, I realize I'm missing some stuff (I actually bought the 2 remaining Watchtowers today), but the problem is... I don't have resources for everything. Not that I'm completely out of resources, I do have a stock, but between all the buildings that I need to build (apparently needing more farms and mud huts) and all the upgrades to the buildings... I just end falling back onto the issue with grinding.

Do I just keep doing the same farming over and over, then?

Mind you, this isn't to say I don't appreciate the help, I definitely do. I'm just feeling crestfallen with how stalled my progress is and this is tanking my interest in the game.

[Kawayol]

What do you mean by "getting river requires to fight 5+ enemies"? Resources for the river can be collected relatively easily, by both abusing subsequent Lich defeats (he gives out sets of rare items) as you get stronger/better, applying traits/supplies/cards which produce more and better loot (such as 2% chance to get whole resource instead of a chunk, when you're traversing). And that's even before having a river. Having all four watchtowers and upgrading them ASAP is a definite boon, as it helps immensely to farm on a lot of enemies early on (put groves with spiders + blood + vampire ransacked villages without wheat fields + forges if available, all in the camp's/watchtowers' vicinity, so they all get attacked by your archers each and every time, on each and every loop). And resource limit can be alleviated with traits as well (with traits that increase limit by 50% + the trait that allows to drop off percent of the resources at the camp automatically as you finish the loop). The general idea is to use resource/farming-benefiting traits first, if you got to them early on, then others after that.

The game is RNG reliant regardless, so, obviously, it might not work out perfectly each and every single time, you just need to have enough luck, so keep on trying and looping until you'll feel that you're at the point (past-boss, of course) where you can go to the settings and turn off all the pauses so that you can fully automate the entire process (this, naturally, best be done only when you're 100% sure that your per-loop stat growth rates match or outpace the enemies' growth rate, which isn't an easy task, but it can be done), then leave it be for a while.

[Yaridovich]

Originally posted by Master Chen:

What do you mean by "getting river requires to fight 5+ enemies"? Resources for the river can be collected relatively easily, by both abusing subsequent Lich defeats (he gives out sets of rare items) as you get stronger/better, applying traits/supplies/cards which produce more and better loot (such as 2% chance to get whole resource instead of a chunk, when you're traversing). And that's even before having a river. Having all four watchtowers and upgrading them ASAP is a definite boon, as it helps immensely to farm on a lot of enemies early on (put groves with spiders + blood + vampire ransacked villages without wheat fields + forges if available, all in the camp's/watchtowers' vicinity, so they all get attacked by your archers each and every time, on each and every loop). And resource limit can be alleviated with traits as well (with traits that increase limit by 50% + the trait that allows to drop off percent of the resources at the camp automatically as you finish the loop).

I read that Orb of Expansion has a chance to drop when fighting groups of 5+ enemies, or rarely in groups of 4 enemies, so that's what I had in mind to get those resources.

That strategy makes sense so I might try it out. But even in terms of defeating bosses, despite having beat the Lich at least a few times before, there are times I'm still unable to do it. Last time I barely got any Oblivions to use and not enough tiles to place around the campfire so I ended up having to fight the Lich while it was hitting me for 200+ damage... So I lost and therefore lost resources that I had been trying to farm.

[Kawayol]

Bronze/expansion orb can be obtained relatively easily from ghosts even if you don't have many enemies, as the enemy turning into a ghost automatically counts as +1 already (even chests can turn into them, even if they're not a mimic, if I recall correctly), and then the ghost can turn into "ghost of ghosts", and then to "prime matter" respectively. And ghosts (all three types of them) suck ass and can be defeated easily, so it's really not all that hard, for so long as you get a battlefield card early on and put it near the camp/in the watchtowers' vicinity.

However, it's just faster and easier to have a grove + spiders (put spiders on top of the grove, so that spiders would spawn IN the grove, if you're able to) put right next to your camp and have them spawn while your watchtowers volley them, each loop. Spiders spawn very fast, so you'll always have a lot of enemies to volley through. And if you put a battlefield in there...you get the picture. And then you can add blood to the grove, so it'll (volleying) get even faster.

[Yaridovich]

Alright, I'll try that and hopefully make some progress. Thanks!

[Kawayol]

Just remember that watchtowers cover area around the camp in a square fashion (so it's ALL tiles AROUND the camp), so it's important to increase their levels ASAP, as expanding their by-tile range means they actually start covering/volleying MUCH larger/farther areas than just one tile. And given how Necromancer operates in general (having multiple units in party + having a magic shield and NO stamina penalties/walls whatsoever) and what traits he can have (one of those is having constant higher-level skeletons alongside with him during the entire loop), just imagine how it looks once you're starting at the camp or coming close to it at the end of the loop, if watchtowers are leveled high enough. And then you can also add lightning towers with 96%+ dodge by stocking up on mirrors, like I've mentioned before. It's broken/OP at that point.

[Yaridovich]

Alright, I'll keep it in mind. Do watchtowers need to be upgraded separately or does upgrading apply to all of them?

[Kawayol]

Upgrading just one watchtowers' range/tile reach is enough to affect them all (since they're all technically in your camp tile by default anyway), I think, but power/speed/effectiveness of their respective volleying attacks, which are individual party units, is affected separately per-tower.
And also - if you're using Necromancer then you'll be able to summon only up to 4 skeletons in the party tops, while you're under the watchtowers' protection/effect. This is because any extra skeleton units summoned over 4 are volley/long range units themselves that attack enemies from unreachable range, and they can't share space with fully stocked watchtowers.
I think it's still possible to have a mix of skeleton volleys and humane archers if you build less than 4 towers in the camp, but I don't see the benefit or why this should even be a thing (aside from the fact that skeleton volley might spawn an AoE mage, instead of an archer).

BTW, doing ransacked villages with vampire is fine, but try to avoid setting up wheat field BEFORE the village was already upgraded and BEFORE you set at least three lanterns near them, because later-looped scarecrows are a PAIN in the ass (there should never be more than one, tops. Or you can remove them all altogether, with enough/4 lanterns). And if you have an oblivion card on your hands, destroy/remove the vampire mansion as soon as possible (the ransacked village will still continue on turning into count's land even IF there's no mansion).

And goblins can't spawn in villages, so if you have a goblin camp "problem" - put a village on the tile adjacent to the goblin's camp to remove/block them (even if they've already spawned).
And, obviously and naturally, remove all bandit's camps as soon as possible. They're especially nasty in Chapters II+, as they have a chance to permanently destroy/remove your equipment.

And once you'll have a river, remember that HP bonus from putting mountain alongside it works only if you do the two mountains next to each other, so do two-by-two, and once the goblin camp spawns, try to remove/block it as soon as possible, then repeat. This is extremely important for Necromancer especially as he absolutely NEEDS that HP bonus (due to his overall low health and no armor). And if you're changing battlefield to shipwreck by setting battlefield near any river, ABSOLUTELY make 100% sure first that it's in your watchtowers' vicinity/tile coverage, as siren WILL absolutely DESTROY your ass if you don't have any help from watchtowers, even early on. Just ONE siren is like TWO full goblin gangs. Try to remove her with lanterns and NEVER EVER set up shipwreck anywhere outside of watchtowers' reach.

[Yaridovich]

Alright, I'll keep it in mind, thank you!

[Kawayol]

Hmmm...I've played the game just now, and here's a little update/confirmation (debunk) on the "is upgrading just one watchtower's tile range/coverage enough to cover them all?" thing:
the answer is - not really, not exactly, not at all. You'll still get the range covered, but only one archer per each upgraded range will be present on further tiles, so you still have to upgrade them all if you wish to have all 4 archer slots to be filled on all watchtower ranges at all times.

I also found out empirically that spamming several spider nests + groves close to the camp/in watchtowers' vicinity actually immensely increases the speed at which you can collect "green" orbs, and same if you do bookery as well (better yet - just combo them by putting them close to each-other), since tomes produce "gold" orb loot (and also "astral") well enough...the only caveat is that you have to completely empty the bookery first, for tomes to start appearing.
You can also add watchers, but those suck for loot farming, since they tend to run away often.

[kevinshow]

basically what i found out is that more huts lets you add more items to your Supply setup. More items means better stats and advantages. As an example, I was able to add enough items to get something like +24% damage on bosses, and that's not even maxing things yet.

so even if you don't enjoy the grind in the sense of trying to defeat the boss, then don't actually try to defeat the boss. do a few rounds to about Loop 15 or 20, just enough to max out your resources (10, 20, or 30) and then quit the loop run and restart. Do that a few times to get more and more huts.

once you have setup a little better, with more Healing and more damage and more other things, then prepare a run where you boost up whatever you need to, choose the cards you want, and go after the boss.

eg, you have 8 equipped supply items....but why not 16 or 32 or even 100? you can do that by adding more huts.

as for how to fight 5+ enemies, I found the necromancer and rogue easier for that. but now I have more experience and knowledge in the game, I could probably do it with Warrior as well. However, I probably won't, because Rogue and Necro do it so well already. In fact, Rogue is my preferred farming class because of how quickly it kills things, meaning the game loop goes faster, meaning I can get the upgrade resources faster, and thus advance in the game stats faster.

But even if you only get 1 orb of expansion per loop run, that's OK. go ahead and do it 15 times. You'll also be getting more furniture and other items, which will help your overall progress when you can use them. As for an easy way to get those orbs of expansions, the vampire and spider at the position 1 or 2 blocks from your campfire, will let the crossbowmen help you fight them. That's assuming you still stay with the way you're playing. If you adjust some things and upgrade other things, you'll probably get more capability to fight them even if you don't have help from the xbowmen.

[Kawayol]

Necromancer is easy mode, but only after you get a hang of how the game operates (as in - you're not afraid to turn pause off in-between loops or fights) in general and when you have a river. Having a combo of river and a forest available at the same time basically turns the game into very easy mode, as it makes Necro nearly unbeatable due to the fact that you can reach super-fast skeleton summoning speeds (thus removing the headache of constantly trying to mix and match equipment to have summoning quality, skeleton level, and summoning speed, all balanced well altogether, all while still needing to have +1 skeleton bonuses as well on the gear. Once you have rivers with forests, you don't need to worry about managing speed stat on whatever equipment you have, anymore) quite early on and nerf all enemies at the same time, with nearly no effort or cost. It almost feels like the game becomes broken, at that point.

Warrior is "normal" mode, as it's both not very OP/broken and not truly weak, if you know what you're doing and you're using proper trait combinations, proper cards/tiles, and proper supplies (tons of nuts and kitchen knives, and lots of count's chairs). It's good middle ground.

Rogue is the weakest/hardest mode by far. It's very heavily reliant on sheer luck, as any run depends badly on you getting good traits, equipment, and cards very early on, which is not guaranteed at all. And some enemy types are literally designed to utterly DESTROY Rogue's ass effortlessly, regardless of your stats and equipment, or bonuses, or card/tile placement.

For example: mokujins never attack first and strictly only use counterattacking as their primary move. Counterattacks never miss and deal the damage in retaliation equal to being hit, so they can kill you off easily at longer-looping stat boosts. For this reason, mokujins can't do jack anything at all to Necromancer, because Necromancer almost never attacks by himself (and even if he does, he still has a magic shield protecting him, which absorbs counterattacks), and his skeleton units always manage to hit opponent first, before counterattack gets registered, so mokujins get damaged even if they one-shot the said skeletons. Rogue, on the other hand, gets his ass absolutely OBLITERATED by mokujins, because Rogue always attacks twice in a row, with two weapons. And Rogue has no proper defense (even Necromancer has some of it, but not Rogue) whatsoever, and he can't outpace full goblin sets or even just one siren, so they rape him as well. And he can die easily to one-shots of such tanks as late-looped flesh golem as well. Rogue, in my personal opinion, is currently very weak/hard, a glass cannon.

[Kamamura]

The trick with grinding is to do a lot of it.

[Apocyl]

You don't need to grind as much once you unlock Alchemy. I think i did only 5 runs to grind and after that i just continued hunting achievements instead.