1938 Stock - Disappointment

[TinBlue]

As predicted - waste of money. Sounds as usual are awful. But this is probably dovetails fault more than anything. Coasting at nearly 40 mph and almost no sounds at all. It's like this old clackerty 38 stock is floating on air. Totally immersion breaking. I don't know why I keep wasting my money on Dovetail. Trains clipping platform edge, tunnel too dark, passenger view windows too dark (no smoking signs physically vanish). I doubt any of this will be fixed - they don't seem to have much love for the Bakerloo.

The only thing good is the model of the train. So top marks to Rivet.

[Antti-san]

It's Rivet's DLC though, so all blame lies at Rivet's door, so to speak.

[Meatloaf Cocktail]

I'd recommend watching the preview videos before purchase. The latest one on the 38 stock does demonstrate a lot of the issues you mentioned.

Might help in future to avoid disappointment.

[Nippur]

It's really bad that things like this are released. When I remember that a tiny independent developer like Armstrong Powerhouse makes the best quality product in the train sim market is frustrating. I love AP stuff, I own almost everything they did.
I'm getting tired of everybody doing mediocre products. Why can't they do it right? Is it too much effort? I doubt is because it costs more money to do it better because a great product equals great sales.

[Fishing4Trains]

As a regular London Underground user these trains are noisy, even inside. With drivers window opened it should be almost deafening. From the stream I watched last night it was ll so silent. Not accurate at all so I won't be buying.
One thing I disagree about with the OP is the "tunnels too dark". In real life the tunnels are dark. Cab view videos posted on youtube often have extra illumination added for just the purpose of the filming. Dark is right in this case.

[Motorhomegirl14 [UK]]

Originally posted by CountVonCarstein:

As a regular London Underground user these trains are noisy, even inside. With drivers window opened it should be almost deafening. From the stream I watched last night it was ll so silent. Not accurate at all so I won't be buying.
One thing I disagree about with the OP is the "tunnels too dark". In real life the tunnels are dark. Cab view videos posted on youtube often have extra illumination added for just the purpose of the filming. Dark is right in this case.

+1

[TinBlue]

Originally posted by CountVonCarstein:

As a regular London Underground user these trains are noisy, even inside. With drivers window opened it should be almost deafening. From the stream I watched last night it was ll so silent. Not accurate at all so I won't be buying.
One thing I disagree about with the OP is the "tunnels too dark". In real life the tunnels are dark. Cab view videos posted on youtube often have extra illumination added for just the purpose of the filming. Dark is right in this case.

I have been in many cabs. My dad was a driver of both old 62 stock and 72 stock. This claim you are repeating that Dovetail throws about as an excuse/explanation is false. Yes, the tunnels are dark but not that dark that the headlights don't allow you see a little more down the tunnel.

And it's even worse in the passenger view. They are applying some sort of blackness trickery that causes the outside of the windows to glitch. They are pitch black. No wires, no sense of movement. Even the No Smoking signs completely disappear due to whatever hack they are doing to make the tunnel go black.

I simply don't accept these arguments or statements. Its just laziness for a modern Train Simulator. The tunnels are amateurish and unrealistic due to poor effort on the art team and developers.

[michaelcolletti306]

No. Blame belongs to Rivet AND DoveTail. It’s DLC intended to be incorporated into a DoveTail product. Ultimately it is DoveTail’s responsibility to ensure a properly working piece of DLC.

Originally posted by Antti-san:

It's Rivet's DLC though, so all blame lies at Rivet's door, so to speak.

Originally posted by Antti-san:

It's Rivet's DLC though, so all blame lies at Rivet's door, so to speak.

[Antti-san]

Originally posted by michaelcolletti306:

No. Blame belongs to Rivet AND DoveTail. It’s DLC intended to be incorporated into a DoveTail product. Ultimately it is DoveTail’s responsibility to ensure a properly working piece of DLC.

It doesn't work like that everything that is wrong is Dovetails fault and everything good is Rivets, though. Maybe Rivet can't do change how the lightning works in tunnels/night, but bad sounds are all on Rivet I'd say, for example.

But you are right that if a 3rd party devs keep stuffing it up and not patching their content perhaps Dovetail should step in. And by that I mean not publishing their content anymore, for example.

Because despite how much Dovetails DLC content and decisions are maligned (rightfully so some times), I'm not expecting Dovetail should come to the rescue every time a 3rd party developer drops the ball. Dovetail have their own content and game that needs developing/patching, and shouldn't be expected to babysit another developer.

[michaelcolletti306]

I think that DoveTail does a great job of creating quality railroading simulation products, but when you sub contract to another content creator and that subcontracted product is placed into one of DoveTail’s core products, it’s all on DoveTail to make sure that it is as bug free as possible. This DLC was purchased through DoveTail. That’s who I paid to get this DLC. I did not pay Rivet. I’m a videotape editor and we subcontract the graphics, audio, DVD authoring and mastering processes to experts who’s specialty is in those areas. We as the production company hold each of those entities responsible for their portion of the project. We sign off on the final master only when we are sure that all the subcontracted components work correctly and with each other. We, the production company, have to insist that each subcontractor does their job correctly. If the subcontracted work is not correct, we send it back until it is done right because at delivery time, our client places all responsibility on us for a properly functioning DVD or BluRay master. That’s how business works. Clearly, the ball was dropped at the quality control stage by Rivet AND DoveTail.

Originally posted by Antti-san:

Originally posted by michaelcolletti306:

No. Blame belongs to Rivet AND DoveTail. It’s DLC intended to be incorporated into a DoveTail product. Ultimately it is DoveTail’s responsibility to ensure a properly working piece of DLC.

It doesn't work like that everything that is wrong is Dovetails fault and everything good is Rivets, though. Maybe Rivet can't do change how the lightning works in tunnels/night, but bad sounds are all on Rivet I'd say, for example.

But you are right that if a 3rd party devs keep stuffing it up and not patching their content perhaps Dovetail should step in. And by that I mean not publishing their content anymore, for example.

Because despite how much Dovetails DLC content and decisions are maligned (rightfully so some times), I'm not expecting Dovetail should come to the rescue every time a 3rd party developer drops the ball. Dovetail have their own content and game that needs developing/patching, and shouldn't be expected to babysit another developer.

Originally posted by Antti-san:

Originally posted by michaelcolletti306:

No. Blame belongs to Rivet AND DoveTail. It’s DLC intended to be incorporated into a DoveTail product. Ultimately it is DoveTail’s responsibility to ensure a properly working piece of DLC.

It doesn't work like that everything that is wrong is Dovetails fault and everything good is Rivets, though. Maybe Rivet can't do change how the lightning works in tunnels/night, but bad sounds are all on Rivet I'd say, for example.

But you are right that if a 3rd party devs keep stuffing it up and not patching their content perhaps Dovetail should step in. And by that I mean not publishing their content anymore, for example.

Because despite how much Dovetails DLC content and decisions are maligned (rightfully so some times), I'm not expecting Dovetail should come to the rescue every time a 3rd party developer drops the ball. Dovetail have their own content and game that needs developing/patching, and shouldn't be expected to babysit another developer.

[michaelcolletti306]

I want to like this DLC so much, however, it would seem that there was little quality control on Rivet & DoveTail’s part to properly test this. Maybe I’m missing something but opening the doors for passengers to board and get off open on BOTH sides of the train. The platform side as well as the track side. Is there a way to select which side to open? This DLC is very buggy with RailDriver. In the beginning when you are supposed to go to the siding indicated stopping point, the marker will only appear if you use your mouse to control the operation of the train. It won’t show up if you’re using RailDiver. At one point I couldn’t close the passenger doors and was able to drive to the next station with the doors open. Ridiculous. Then there’s the issue of the train controls freezing prohibiting you from control the train. There are just so many superficial issues not the least of which is HOW to access the DLC to begin with. At first I couldn’t find it as it is buried in the London Underground route / scenario selection panel. DoveTail needs to go back to Rivet and request these bugs be fixed. I have not played it long enough to find out what else is wrong. Clearly, the ball was dropped at the quality control stage by Rivet AND DoveTail.

[Fishing4Trains]

Originally posted by TinBlue:

Originally posted by CountVonCarstein:

As a regular London Underground user these trains are noisy, even inside. With drivers window opened it should be almost deafening. From the stream I watched last night it was ll so silent. Not accurate at all so I won't be buying.
One thing I disagree about with the OP is the "tunnels too dark". In real life the tunnels are dark. Cab view videos posted on youtube often have extra illumination added for just the purpose of the filming. Dark is right in this case.

I have been in many cabs. My dad was a driver of both old 62 stock and 72 stock. This claim you are repeating that Dovetail throws about as an excuse/explanation is false. Yes, the tunnels are dark but not that dark that the headlights don't allow you see a little more down the tunnel.

And it's even worse in the passenger view. They are applying some sort of blackness trickery that causes the outside of the windows to glitch. They are pitch black. No wires, no sense of movement. Even the No Smoking signs completely disappear due to whatever hack they are doing to make the tunnel go black.

I simply don't accept these arguments or statements. Its just laziness for a modern Train Simulator. The tunnels are amateurish and unrealistic due to poor effort on the art team and developers.

I should imagine that the headlights on old stock are a lot less illuminating than modern stock? Besides what is there to see in the tunnels exactly?

[michaelcolletti306]

How do you choose which side of the train the doors open on? When you press the door unlock button in the cab, doors open on both sides. They open on the platform side AND the adjacent track side.

[SoldadØ]

Originally posted by michaelcolletti306:

How do you choose which side of the train the doors open on? When you press the door unlock button in the cab, doors open on both sides. They open on the platform side AND the adjacent track side.

Try using shortcuts:

Y (left doors only) - U (right doors only).

[michaelcolletti306]

Will give it a try. Thanks!

[Antti-san]

Originally posted by michaelcolletti306:

I think that DoveTail does a great job of creating quality railroading simulation products, but when you sub contract to another content creator and that subcontracted product is placed into one of DoveTail’s core products, it’s all on DoveTail to make sure that it is as bug free as possible. This DLC was purchased through DoveTail. That’s who I paid to get this DLC. I did not pay Rivet. I’m a videotape editor and we subcontract the graphics, audio, DVD authoring and mastering processes to experts who’s specialty is in those areas. We as the production company hold each of those entities responsible for their portion of the project. We sign off on the final master only when we are sure that all the subcontracted components work correctly and with each other. We, the production company, have to insist that each subcontractor does their job correctly. If the subcontracted work is not correct, we send it back until it is done right because at delivery time, our client places all responsibility on us for a properly functioning DVD or BluRay master. That’s how business works. Clearly, the ball was dropped at the quality control stage by Rivet AND DoveTail.

And I think you have unrealistic expectations/demands regarding Dovetail in this case, regardless of how it is done in a different business (developing games is much more complicated/time-consuming than editing tapes I dare say?). Rivet are developers, this is their developed product published by Dovetail. Subcontracting would be more like Rivet only making the scenery (like they did for Cathcart) for an otherwise Dovetail-developed add-on.

BTW, regarding you not being able to find the DLC, all the loco add-ons are "buried" in the route they designed for, so this is not really an issue.