Should I upgrade my weapon more then +5/10 or not ?

[Buurt]

I getting alot of mixed signals about weapon upgrades because of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ scaling system, I wanna test different weapons and not gonna be stucked on one weapons, but many people complain close to all weapons get useless when upgrading to much or you have to stay with one weapon because of how bad the scaling is for the weapons.

Is there any good tipp for upgrading or something ?

[Ottomic]

Just keep your weapon level to your PL and you should be fine. But yes, you should level your weapons as you play.

I leveled them whenever and it never screwed me over tbh. This is just one of the many things people make look like it's a way bigger deal than it really is.

[Tymon]

Originally posted by Buurt:

I getting alot of mixed signals about weapon upgrades because of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ scaling system, I wanna test different weapons and not gonna be stucked on one weapons, but many people complain close to all weapons get useless when upgrading to much or you have to stay with one weapon because of how bad the scaling is for the weapons.

Is there any good tipp for upgrading or something ?

With two level 10 archetypes and level 0 weapons, your power level is considered to be level 8. The game's highest minimum level is 15, which is the final boss area. So you could upgrade your weapons to about +6 or so and get a power level of about 14 and then everything would be level 15 across the board. The problem with the way scaling in this game is done, is that you cannot actually upgrade your armor. So statistically your growth is outpaced by the enemies. While you can make up for it with various rings, gear, skills and so on, the enemy stat gains are greater than yours as your power level goes up. For example, when I was first starting as alchemist, a single double barrel shot to the face would kill the basic trash snake root creatures in yaesha.
At power level 20, it takes two to three double barrel shots to the face to kill the same things now. So yeah, it CAN be a problem.

[Eudicots]

The only issue you will have with leveling multiple weapons is resources. It gets expensive when you are trying to reach a minimum level with each weapon.

The scaling isn't really a problem and you won't really notice it unless you are level 20 using a level 1 weapon.

[Buurt]

And what if I am stuck at a boss ? can I upgrade my stuff and maybe deal more dmg or does the boss just scale with it so its pointless

[Buurt]

Originally posted by Lowbei:

the scaling is fine. people simply look for reasons to blame the game for their failures, and the scaling is a common scapegoat because arguing the subject requires math, which nobody is willing to bring into this.

at maxxed upgrade everything is fine, even on apocalypse.

The problem with that is when you wanna test different weapons its impossible to do so because your power level doesen't get lower when swapping, so you either have to grind way to much for a different weapon or stay with the one you are using

[SB'67/nWo]

Originally posted by Buurt:

Originally posted by Lowbei:

the scaling is fine. people simply look for reasons to blame the game for their failures, and the scaling is a common scapegoat because arguing the subject requires math, which nobody is willing to bring into this.

at maxxed upgrade everything is fine, even on apocalypse.

The problem with that is when you wanna test different weapons its impossible to do so because your power level doesen't get lower when swapping, so you either have to grind way to much for a different weapon or stay with the one you are using

Never been a problem for me. The only limiting factor has been Simulcrum, but level 9 (boss weapons) and level 19 weapons work just fine in a level 21 world on any difficulty. Not sure what the fuss is about. The only real time you want to be careful with your level is in Hardcore if you want to have an "easier" time

[Kappa]

What I did:
Survivor: no upgrade ( actually, I didn't do survivor, as I started from veteran )
Veteran: +4/+5 ( half for boss weapons )
Nightmare: +9/+10 ( half for boss weapons )
Apo: +20

No issues so far.

[D. Flame]

Never upgrade until you get stuck, then upgrade as much as you can. Rinse and repeat.

[Roan Shiran]

You must find sweetspot yourself. Just dont upgrade too much or you will have to grind to try new weapons.

[Arani]

Originally posted by Buurt:

I getting alot of mixed signals about weapon upgrades because of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ scaling system, I wanna test different weapons and not gonna be stucked on one weapons, but many people complain close to all weapons get useless when upgrading to much or you have to stay with one weapon because of how bad the scaling is for the weapons.

Is there any good tipp for upgrading or something ?

Nobody seems to know exactly how it works, or if one does it gets drowned in too much misinformation. But the details don't really matter in this case. The gist of it is that your PL is based on your two highest classes, and 2-3 highest weapons.

I actually did what you're talking about here in my own world, I stuck to +5 (boss weapons) / +10 (regular weapons) for the longest time, because I wanted to stay in a coop appropriate range and to be able to afford at least something. You get like 5-10% of the scrap & materials you need in this game, so if you just keep upgrading the same few weapons you'll be out of resources so fast it's not even funny. What was also important for me was that I didn't know what weapons I wanted to use, so I was constantly switching around. And keeping a relatively low upgrade cap helped me do that.

It's perfectly doable, if you like. But as others have said, there are consequences (even if they're kinda minor). My PL was several levels above my weapon upgrade levels, so the fact that I was doing less damage than usual, and less damage than my friend I played with who kept boosting theirs became fairly obvious. It was nothing even close to game breaking but it was there. And I was stuck with the same trashy materials. Because the game scales the material drops based on your strongest weapons too. But this was probably a blessing more than a curse for how much it helped to level alt gear. So I just spammed coop and ground my way through like this. I had all traits maxed and like 4-5 maxed classes by the time I finally started upgrading my gear again, and at that point I knew what weapons I liked so the new upgrades went to them naturally, and I could afford it more comfortably.

[Dr.Abscondus]

Originally posted by Buurt:

And what if I am stuck at a boss ? can I upgrade my stuff and maybe deal more dmg or does the boss just scale with it so its pointless

The difficulty of a level is set the moment you enter it and does not change if you upgrade your weapons. The trick I used was to go into each world and run around finding all the connecting dungeon doors then entering them to lock in the difficulty. The boss arenas are separate area so you have to go in to lock the difficulty of the boss. Once you've been in every dungeon plus the boss areas then upgrade your weapons which will up your power level so you are above the difficulty level of the dungeons and the boss. Just increase your level to one above the boss. Then you can clear the dungeons and kill the boss with less trouble. You'll have to repeat this process in each world plus there's always a boss that's blocking access to half of the world map. Eventually I got strong enough that I could handle areas that were one level above my own. It's only difficult early on before you get the best archetypes and all the best rings, amulets, armor, mods, and mutators.

[Arani]

Originally posted by Dr.Abscondus:

Originally posted by Buurt:

And what if I am stuck at a boss ? can I upgrade my stuff and maybe deal more dmg or does the boss just scale with it so its pointless

The difficulty of a level is set the moment you enter it and does not change if you upgrade your weapons. The trick I used was to go into each world and run around finding all the connecting dungeon doors then entering them to lock in the difficulty. The boss arenas are separate area so you have to go in to lock the difficulty of the boss. Once you've been in every dungeon plus the boss areas then upgrade your weapons which will up your power level so you are above the difficulty level of the dungeons and the boss. Just increase your level to one above the boss. Then you can clear the dungeons and kill the boss with less trouble. You'll have to repeat this process in each world plus there's always a boss that's blocking access to half of the world map. Eventually I got strong enough that I could handle areas that were one level above my own. It's only difficult early on before you get the best archetypes and all the best rings, amulets, armor, mods, and mutators.

So, to desperately run through every area, likely dying a ton in the process, only to do it all over again all for the sake of making it slightly easier over time as you upgrade?

Wouldn't it just be so much easier to just set the difficulty to the minimum, where you don't have to bother with any of that?

[Atma]

Originally posted by Buurt:

And what if I am stuck at a boss ? can I upgrade my stuff and maybe deal more dmg or does the boss just scale with it so its pointless

Just to answer this question, yes you can upgrade your weapons and deal more damage to that one boss you are stuck on, but the next area will scale to your new weapon level.

If you just stay at +5/+10, this will put your character at level 14 and the rest of the worlds will ALWAYS be at world level 15 and not go above that.

Another poster said you can go to +6/+12, but I haven't messed w/ that myself.

[Placidusax's Ruin]

there's literally no point in staying at low level, unless you want to create backup of the low level world, so that your new character can recollect the old items more easily. Some items give you benefit base on the damage you dealt,for example you may see a full level weapon using mods non stop, while using a low level weapon will have a break. so just level up your weapon, the new world you enter will always calculate base on your current power level, so there's no need to fear that you may get op, and due to the existence of survival difficulty, you won't find the game too hard to finish either.

[Atma]

There's literally no point in leveling past 14 either. It's really up to peoples' preference.

The drawback of going past 14 is that there isn't really anything more that you can do to add survivability while enemies' health and damage does scale upward still.

The drawback of not going past 14 is that your numbers won't be as big.