TRAIT CAP END ALL DISCUSSION

[Gul Bjorn]

The replay value of the first game was greatly padded by maxing out all the traits. I never maxed them out, and I don't think i even found all of them. I had a character a little over 200, and then the save got corrupted, and i started over. Last time I hopped on, i was well over 300. With the cap currently at 60, that's a lot of grind removed from the game. I don't care about relic upgrades. After finding my favorite weapon/accessory set, I don't care about finding all of the weapons and accessories. so the game, from my point of view is finished, at just a smidge over 20 hours.

Having an unlimited trait cap in the game dramatically improves it's replay value. there are those who argue against this, and i have one thing to say to them, and that is this
" what's the difference between having no cap, and the people who only want to use 60 points, just never using more than 60? Maybe i'm the idiot here."

COUNTER ARGUMENT#1: I'm an elitist, and I like that the cap is only 60.
RESPONSE: then just stop allocating traits after you've used 60. or go above that, and do 50, or even less.

COUNTER ARGUMENT#2: I don't want other people playing to have more traits than me.
RESPONSE: Then don't play publicly. Play with people who have a similar philosophy for the game as you do.

COUNTER ARGUMENT#3: I don't want other people playing to beat the game on higher difficulties with more points than I use.
RESPONSE: Is the knowledge of knowing you've done it with less not good enough for you?

COUNTER ARGUMENT#4: If i have unused points, I can't resist allocating them.
RESPONSE: Than it seems that youe ideals and rhetoric do not align with your self control. Maybe work on your self control.

COUNTER ARGUMENT#5: I don't want other players to have access to how they want to play, because I like arguing with them in forums.
RESPONSE: Maybe you should work on yourself as a person, and consider there are other ways for you to feel good about yourself, than the discomfort of others.

COUNTER ARGUMENT#6: More traits will affect the balance of the game play.
RESPONSE: Then only play with people who have the self control to cap their progression, as you do. Or enjoy the challenge of playing in a setting that is even harder than what your character is made for.

I think I've covered everything that I've seen so far. but ultimately, no one has had a good response, or even any to : what's the difference between having no cap, and the people who only want to use 60 points, just never using more than 60? Maybe i'm the idiot here.

[Atma]

Kinda feel like the lead designer saying the trait cap isn't going away is the actual end of all discussion, and yet here we are. :D

[Dundo]

lmaoing @ everyone saying BUH SOULS DOESN'T CAP YOU hence why post SL150 online was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dead lmao, no one was playing that ♥♥♥♥ because everyone had everything. Saying unlimited traits will approve game life span because Souls did X is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid and you've likely never played Souls games to begin with because especially in DS3, everyone knew you were either SL 90, 120 or you were solo lmao because post SL 120 online was dead.

Not only that but the game actively decentivized post LVL 60 stats because of how the level curve worked and the return did diminsh, HEAVILY. Remnant's trait curve is nonexistant and it's completely linear.

[Mister Lister the Sister Fister]

needs a cap. maybe not 60 but needs a cap.

[Mr Fantastic]

The cap makes no sense, it takes away something to do in late game, to catch them all.

To make matters worse you get nothing from getting books above 60, at least gives us some scrap or other resources.

[dr46onfusion]

Allow trait cap to go to 200 points, but have it impact your power level instead of using your archetype scaling.

Add more traits in that is more generic, like 'Sword' mastery, 'Axe' mastery, "Sniper mastery" etc. So you can boost specific elements of those weapon types with trait points (crit chance, attack speed, etc).

When you pick up a tome of knowledge, EXP is given to your equipped archetypes, so even if you go beyond the usual amount, at least that EXP can be handy to level up archetypes.

[dr46onfusion]

Първоначално публикувано от Atma:

Kinda feel like the lead designer saying the trait cap isn't going away is the actual end of all discussion, and yet here we are. :D

Well, they simply want to sell their games with the way this game is designed, they just gave you a horizontal variety of gear to augment your character, but the vertical is pretty shallow as your HP can't really surpass 200 points in a way.

[Kazaanh]

Biggest argument i seen is from people who cry

"muhhh end game muhh grinding traits into the infinity"

[JohnTravoltage]

If we want the trait cap gone, may aswell just remove the traits and up the stats to what they would have been with the traits. Its just a waste of time and doesn't actually add any depth to the game. Theres nothing interesting about dumping points into stats when there is no compromise you are making.

The only reason I'd see it working like that is for hardcore characters or if there was some other forced trait reset so that the point is picking traits as you go through the game.

TLDR: The fact that you don't have to choose between traits if theres no trait limit, pretty much nullifies the choice between them anyway. Theres no point to them if thats the case.

[A.G]

handling, fitness, scholar, wayfarer, footwork,Revivalist a few examples of quality of life changes not really build worthy. Most of these traits come down to personal preference
Then we have those that are more selective in when u would use like

blood bond, rugged only useful for a summons build but even then these are not great the absorption is meh and in my experience i am the one who hurts my summons the most not enemies meaning rugged is down to how much i wanna be able to hit them

amplitude if i dont have aoe is goes out of here and again its not a massive boost

arcane strike, spirit again not that great and it not that hard to gain mod generation normally
i cant tell the difference between spirit or no spirit

expertise at most it reduces a cooldown down by 24 seconds i would say not really great

vigor, endurance, bloodstream, recovery No massive boosts and again mostly down to personal preference and not "builds"

siphoner i think is a good perk no complains makes sense fits with 60 trait limit if other things had similiar impact

Glutton is a great perk but i wouldnt say it is build dependent and a bit annoying locked behind multiplayer

There are a few more traits and archtype traits but i think you all get the point by now
If all perks had impact and feeling to them i would agree lock them traits points down babe mmmm
but as it stands none of these are special enough for it

[ThyStonedOne]

im not going to read all of these comments, here is where i stand..
put simply.. im not buying the product until they remove trait limit.

[Tafka]

damn I think Im an idiot and Playing only 40 points in hardest difficulty, cant finde the use of other 20 points

[ElviraDemonQueen]

Първоначално публикувано от Unbound Cross:

Първоначално публикувано от Morty Smith:

what's the difference between having no cap, and the people who only want to use 60 points, just never using more than 60? Maybe i'm the idiot here.

Because having no cap means you end up playing Skyrim. Everyone is the exact same build, and that's not interesting for the player playing, or the people who get stuck with the guy who spent 300 hours re-rolling earth area 1 to farm tomes.

It made balance a nightmare, and drained any sense of progression out of the game because when everyone is "Perfect", the only difference is what gun you used.

There's a reason Diablo 3 is dead and Diablo 2 is still kicking, and it's this exact reason. Diablo 3 had every class being identical. Your personal abilities, your tastes? Meaningless. So the game is rotting with maybe 2-3 players online a day, while even OG diablo 2 still has thousands coming by and build-crafting to see what new challenges they can put themselves through.

Remnant 1 has literally none of that going on for it. Face it, you were spoiled by not having to think, and having to think is now a chore for you, and that's why your post is just PACKED with salt.

"But you have to spend all of your points on required traits like health and stamin-"

No. No you don't. You can beat the entire game without putting a single point into those so called "Required traits" people keep harping about. You can build whatever you like, and in this case, less is ABSOLUTELY more.

funny i like diablo 3 and i never play DIABLO 1 or 2 when i whas gifted Diablo 2 i tyr it 2 hours unstalled it went back to diablo 3 as 2 is just a ♥♥♥♥ fest for me

even caping traint points is taking mostly away all the grind but its fine you can insult all those people that dit not like the cap and i will install that mod one day anyway to remove the CAP and grind the game how i like it in Remnant 1

[kaffekoppen]

Първоначално публикувано от JohnTravoltage:

If we want the trait cap gone, may aswell just remove the traits and up the stats to what they would have been with the traits. Its just a waste of time and doesn't actually add any depth to the game. Theres nothing interesting about dumping points into stats when there is no compromise you are making.

No, because people were using them like paragon points/badass ranks, something to keep earning gradually while playing, to make it feel like you kept progressing.

Having higher stats from the beginning totally defeats the purpose. How about we also give people +10 weapons from the beginning? See the problem? People like upgrading their characters.

If you truly wanted build variety, I don't think trait points are the best way. Make a skill tree then, where each point represents a choice that changes your gameplay in some way, not where each point is like .3% bonus to lifesteal.

[meda]

In a pve game, there IS a reason not to let people play the way that they want and the reason is simple - I make the game and I make the rules. Bye

[Rhett]

There's a mod to remove the cap though... I don't even think it affects other players, which is nice. Devs have some sort of plans, so for now, just use the mod?