Diplomacy is Not an Option

Diplomacy is Not an Option

View Stats:
Brids17 Nov 24, 2024 @ 7:29pm
How difficult is it?
For reference, I haven't played an RTS in nearly 20 years, so I assume I have no experience at all.
Originally posted by Abradolf Linkler:
To answer the OP's question though ( sorry I was sort of just venting a few posts up).

If you are expecting a chill city-builder with some crisis involved (like frostpunk for example), this is not that.

If you expect a combat base builder where you start on ( semi) equal footing to your enemies and build up and take them out (like command and conquer) , this isn't it.

If you are looking for a challenge that's going to make you pay attention 100% at all times and is also going to be stressful as hell, this is the game for you. It requires you to play in a specific way, you HAVE to try and optimize resources and population right from the word go.

It's really not a bad game, it's just insanely difficult and stressful as it stands. There is no easy mode for more casual players. I'm torn between having fun and wanting to smash things in real life atm while playing it.

--Also since I figured this out for anyone it might help: Anytime you select a group (btw you can highlight a selected group and press cntrl+number to set them as a hotkeyed group, using same number by itself to select just that group afterwards) If you press "F" it picks attack while moving option, you then have to left click to set destination using that. I had to mention the last part because normal confirm destination is right click. It's still easier then clicking the (called "move to attack" for some reason, when it should be called attack while moving) button every time though. If anyone knows how to set this as default behavior it would still be awesome to know this.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
Chaplain Roach Nov 24, 2024 @ 8:38pm 
2
It's going to be fun for about the first 3 missions, and then the difficulty, regardless of which one you've picked shoots up to a ridiculous level. The devs clearly made this game for rts hardcores. Balance is crazy too be short about it.
Adam Nov 24, 2024 @ 9:42pm 
That is a bit overblown. I have beaten most missions on first try, very few needing second one, without even saving and reloading during the missions (bad habit from playing they are billions xD) and I in no way consider myself rts hardcore.

That being said, I will admit that the game does quite a bad job at setting expectations of what u need to do to win in later missions. First 3 missions are so easy you can win them with minimal expansion and honestly pitiful city population and economy but from mission 4th (tho in my opinion rly from 5th) the game rly starts, expecting you to take resources it provides you with and people who took first 3 missions at face value and thought this is the game standard are in for a rude awakening, as u can see by number of threads here complaining about difficulty.

My opinion is that - anyone who got thru They are Billions campaign will find this game rather easy (at least on 2nd diffuculty) as expansion here is way easier and u can get crazy eco on most maps. But if u never played any rts of this kind and set your expecations here on the 3 first missions, expanding way slower than is possible then u may have a bit of a hard time.

I think it would be better for the game if one of first 3 missions had some pre-build big city so people can see what they can/are supposed to strive to build. Most people who come here and say they cant beat some map never go past 600 population while it is nothing shocking to even go past 2k. I wish game better communicated that fact.
Last edited by Adam; Nov 24, 2024 @ 9:51pm
Abradolf Linkler Nov 24, 2024 @ 10:55pm 
Building the temple is making me want to quit the game. Communicate defending yourself from 5 directions at once on day 4 while also trying to do 'anything else".

Build sawmill...destroyed, build houses...destroyed.. build mines...destroyed.

Start doing okay, 6 bloated guys rush you and explode on contact wiping out your scouting group whose corpses will soon become zombies and attack your base with the other unrelenting waves. Or run into an enemy group that is inexplicably 10x stronger then normal camps. You can kind of tell by their models ( after dying once) but your vision range is so short you can't really see them until they are killing you.

Post small groups as guards, mobs walk right past them just outside of their aggro range. You don't get alerted until they are already killing people and destroying your buildings, they destroy a building in 5 seconds and it takes 15 seconds to walk to them. 15 seconds IF you posted a bunch of guard groups inside the perimeter.

--For some reason "attack anything in range while moving to destination" also needs to be selected every single time you click on the unit and tell it to move, unless I'm misunderstanding something about that.-- If anyone can tell me a way to set this as the default behavior without clicking it every single time that would be awesome though.

It's the hardest rts you'll ever play, hands down.

This game is designed as a 'rush resources and population optimally starting on day 1" or have a real bad time, you would think difficulty settings addressed this but they do not.

There's also too many quality of life things missing for this difficulty, for instance you can order groups to "patrol" but if there is a way to set way markers so they can patrol in a circle instead of just walking between point A and B the game does'n communicate it. Also the aforementioned "attack while moving setting". There is just a lot that just isn't communicated to the player. What causes some spawners to send waves at your base while others don't? There is no option to set units to defend an area besides sitting them there and "hoping" stuff walks into their tiny aggro radius instead of just walking past them. Resource storage can bottleneck you but the games UI doesn't give you a real overview of where the bottleneck it (mousing over wood for instance doesn't tell you xx / xxxx, it just tells you xx). You have to click on your individual storages that you built to see if they are capped. How much pop does each food source support? Doesn't tell you.

At the same time there is still a lot to like about it. It has some real charm to it and it can be cool to fight off a horde of 5000 enemies. The story is silly but amusing. I still like it except for this mission i'm currently on. Difficulty on the easiest setting is way way overtuned though and there is no defending that fact. If you like super hard games you'll love it, otherwise stay away unless they address this.
Abradolf Linkler Nov 24, 2024 @ 11:12pm 
Also just to add to be fair, a lot of these issues weren't game breaking until I made it to the point I am at, which took me 27 hours. The difficulty curve is still extremely high though as soon as you finish the tutorial.

I'm probably going to just restart from the beginning and see if I can get better by the time I get back to this point.
The author of this thread has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
Abradolf Linkler Nov 25, 2024 @ 3:37am 
To answer the OP's question though ( sorry I was sort of just venting a few posts up).

If you are expecting a chill city-builder with some crisis involved (like frostpunk for example), this is not that.

If you expect a combat base builder where you start on ( semi) equal footing to your enemies and build up and take them out (like command and conquer) , this isn't it.

If you are looking for a challenge that's going to make you pay attention 100% at all times and is also going to be stressful as hell, this is the game for you. It requires you to play in a specific way, you HAVE to try and optimize resources and population right from the word go.

It's really not a bad game, it's just insanely difficult and stressful as it stands. There is no easy mode for more casual players. I'm torn between having fun and wanting to smash things in real life atm while playing it.

--Also since I figured this out for anyone it might help: Anytime you select a group (btw you can highlight a selected group and press cntrl+number to set them as a hotkeyed group, using same number by itself to select just that group afterwards) If you press "F" it picks attack while moving option, you then have to left click to set destination using that. I had to mention the last part because normal confirm destination is right click. It's still easier then clicking the (called "move to attack" for some reason, when it should be called attack while moving) button every time though. If anyone knows how to set this as default behavior it would still be awesome to know this.
✚ Mariel ✚ Nov 25, 2024 @ 6:11am 
It's not that hard but there's quite a learning curve. Once you figure out how to do it the same strategy will work on most missions.
ShuFlngPu Nov 27, 2024 @ 9:45am 
Originally posted by Brids17:
For reference, I haven't played an RTS in nearly 20 years, so I assume I have no experience at all.
The closest comparison I have is They are Billions... But this game is ALOT easier to play than that. I think the eco management in this game is a tad easier but both games are quite similar. :D
This game is hard. Would not recommend for beginners
Franc Nov 28, 2024 @ 5:22pm 
Originally posted by Chaplain Roach:
It's going to be fun for about the first 3 missions, and then the difficulty, regardless of which one you've picked shoots up to a ridiculous level. The devs clearly made this game for rts hardcores. Balance is crazy too be short about it.

100%, playing on easy mode i still lose. Its just maddening sometimes, i would enjoy it a lot more if I could make it slightly easier.

Elden ring is easier than this game on easy difficulty. Theres difficult, and there is stupidly difficult.
Franc Dec 14, 2024 @ 7:14am 
Originally posted by Chaplain Roach:
It's going to be fun for about the first 3 missions, and then the difficulty, regardless of which one you've picked shoots up to a ridiculous level. The devs clearly made this game for rts hardcores. Balance is crazy too be short about it.

The devs didnt make it clear its for rts hardcores, I bought it expecting an RTS game that I could enjoy playing. Im still playing it at easiest level and it feels like a chore. I barely even stop playing a game mid campaign but this looks like one. I understand on a difficult game, easy still might be tricky but easy is what other RTS's would classify as punishing.
Abradolf Linkler Dec 14, 2024 @ 10:04pm 
And still crickets from the devs on weather this will ever be addressed or is working as intended.

It's a cool game and I like the goofy story beats, but the extreme difficulty pretty much makes me want to just give up or find cheats.

I got my monies worth at 76 hours but I just cant progress any farther and it's too stressful to try.

Temple on main path, prison break on resistance path, destroy kings castle on undead path is as far as I can get.
Sisyphus Dec 15, 2024 @ 5:32am 
Once you learn the optimal sequence of moves to maximize economy and efficiency the game is really easy, even on the highest difficulty. Since higher difficulty mainly gives lower starting resources so exponential growth takes a little longer to achieve.

I think what the game fails to do is properly teach the players how to do this. Most other games teach players what tricks/ combos/ strats are good but in a simplified starter mission. Where they focus an entire mission or segment into showing how to properly do certain stuff.

As it stands, you get thrown into the game and the only thing they show you is that you can change targeting priority on ballista to hit enemy siege. Which is a T3 troop. They just skip everything else.

There is like 8 "resources" that you have to learn how to efficiently gather.
Food
Wood
Stone
Iron
Gold
Population
Builders
Land

Each one of these has their own quirks or strats to them. Some simpler than others. But if you are not optimizing them, you won't be able to afford the army/defenses to survive.

The only reason I know them is because I put way too many hours in this game through trial and error. Where I learned how to gather excess of one but failed to collect food. Or I got excess of both but failed to get another one. Rinse and repeat until I got the hang of each one.

This is way too much to put on a new player. They will suffer before they get better.
I just so happened to enjoy the suffering because I knew the challenge was possible, if I just figured out what my mistakes were.

This game will not hold your hand. You will have to figure stuff out. There is plenty of helpful tips and guides on here though.
Franc Dec 15, 2024 @ 10:33pm 
I just finished the saranga missions, the mission before the last was very very hard indeed, only won it by fortifing one side with delaying fencing and bringing all my troops to the other side and got two groups before the other two broke into my city.

The last mission was almost easy in comparison. Ive played tons of RTS's this felt like a chore playing it though I wanted to finish one campaign out of stubborness.
Zasso Dec 16, 2024 @ 9:46am 
Do people overlook the sandbox a lot?
While yes the campaign and the "default" game is very difficult, I managed to find my niche in the sandbox (and hopefully future map editor) where I could tune things to what I was looking for.
rabureta Dec 19, 2024 @ 11:25am 
Originally posted by Franc:
Originally posted by Chaplain Roach:
It's going to be fun for about the first 3 missions, and then the difficulty, regardless of which one you've picked shoots up to a ridiculous level. The devs clearly made this game for rts hardcores. Balance is crazy too be short about it.

The devs didnt make it clear its for rts hardcores, I bought it expecting an RTS game that I could enjoy playing. Im still playing it at easiest level and it feels like a chore. I barely even stop playing a game mid campaign but this looks like one. I understand on a difficult game, easy still might be tricky but easy is what other RTS's would classify as punishing.
It isn't for RTS hardcores. I'm a mediocre RTS player at best and got through all the campaign paths on Challenge Accepted just fine.

You attack-move to clear camps, you plop down guard towers where you have a trickle of enemies from a spawner, you put up walls between terrain where you expect waves and you drop dark knights/astral ray on anything you don't have defenses for yet.

Dramatically easier than, say, There Are Billions, where you have to keep your army small and walls close and micromanage everything because of sound mechanics.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
Per page: 1530 50