The new cloakers are awful for gameplay...

[HumanDude]

Simply put for solo play or even in multiplayer the new cloakers are just awful. I hate not being able to do anything solo because bots are too stupid leading to them constantly dead. So anytime i want to hold out I have to sit in spots where they can't get you but I cant always do that. They also just have no warning what so ever as they will dart around corners and be activated as soon as they get a wiff of you. They are just too aggressive with little counter play in solo.

They certainly need to be nerfed because if the zapper does basically the same thing and takes longer to do it overall being slower then why can the cloaker just do what he does way better. Even if you can find counters for the cloaker its just no intended or simply boring and unfun...

Its not even like play defensively they just hardcore shut you down anytime you are alone which is constantly in overkill solo. The payday 2 cloakers were actually nice for gameplay because they wouldn't instantly down you on the scent of you. You could very audibly hear them when they were just idling around rather then making 0 sound as they come around a corner...

I don't know how else to put it they are cool but they aren't fun and I wish they were changed to something more like payday 2. I know theres a skill to counter as well but its one time which does not matter in the longer run if you have to hold out constantly. Overkill can last a long time while waiting for an opening and then when you get that chance OH hi cloaker who had a millisecond for me to react.

I don't know this is certainly an overkill issue so it won't impact most people but also nerfing them still won't impact most people. I don't really see any good reason to keep em as they are anyways.

[Oboi]

Originally posted by HumanDude:

Originally posted by Netsa:

Because that's an ambush. What he does is literally an ambush. The complaint is that you can't see him beforehand, which would defeat the point of an ambush. Like I said, he can only hit you when you're alone, so stop leaving your team behind if you can't handle Cloakers.

Enemies don't gain health on Overkill and Cloaker doesn't wear armor, you don't need to headshot him. Just fire. You don't require a skill to evade Cloaker, you require not being alone all the time with zero awareness. Especially if you're playing the game with mouse and keyboard, your reflexes probably aren't bad enough that you can't kill him if he starts running from behind you.

I don't use any of the anti-Cloaker skills, I kill Cloakers all the time. Any weapon with non-trash damage works. SA, KU, Reinfelds, etc. Again, he doesn't wear armor. They're even announced by Shade when they spawn.

Also, what map are you guys running solo loud where
A. The only thing ever downing you is Cloakers, and
B. You also can't keep your bots alive (Combat Medic exists for a reason, and it's pretty strong when you have bots around to give you the buff)

You're trying to tell me you're good enough to solo a loud Overkill heist, but you're not good enough to protect yourself against Cloakers?

Bots tend to walk out into the hallway in very open areas where reviving them is awful. They also lag behind so much that by the time you get back where you need to be with 10 seconds to spare they somehow still manage to be only halfway to where you are. They just suck in a lot situations. Oh cloakers also dont attack them with a kick which is also interesting. Lastly though bot just get stuck in walls or ceilings too so thats completely out of my control in cases. I do try to revive them when it doesn't mean my armor getting shredded.

So my most commonly used weapon is the SA and i dont recall it one tapping the body or even two tapping (could be lag due to only online or something else idk). I also just don't like any other guns but maybe the scar. The SA though just doesn't fire fast enough for a cloaker whos in your face UNLESS you hit the head. So yeah i mean i guess skill issue but like only with this guy how fun.

I also have to deal with being the last alive when i play with others as well because my team just kind of runs in and dies. So of course im going to find a room where i can easily manage every other enemy and pick them off. In this situation i am right around a wall to take cover so a cloaker charging through the doorway is very close and activates their kick right away. Sometimes im reloading so legit I can't do anything. Sometimes theres not enough distance to allow me to shoot and kill these guys.

For what maps though i mean just any that have it to where the bots path badly or where my team just dies and i need to hold off. Almost every maps run ender has just been a cloaker more than anything. Again if you feel 120 milliseconds is enough for reacting to cloakers in some situations i suppose good for you but others uhm not so much even if they do see it.

To show off that the cloaker will attack you in ways where you have to react perfectly or somehow break the average reaction time here: https://streamable.com/qo0lkw

How am i suppose to react to this during an assault where there is absolute chaos with the sounds to where the cloaker spawn is muffled or just inaudible. Then visually i get a crazy 120 milliseconds to shoot him or even use the skill. Well the skill had hope but i guess good luck reacting. The gun you would need to headshot or shoot him 3 times in the body (not possible with this gun in this time frame). BTW I am in a defensive position with a team which yeah they will save me but the cloaker just shouldn't do this.

I'm sorry i get it in some situations where you have plenty of time but this is not reasonable. Mainly in solo? This is completely unreasonable as you already are weak enough but to just have the cloaker turn a corner even at times with the sound happening right as he appears on screen then kicking you in under 200 milliseconds is crazy. I'm sorry but i don't have the ability to play multiplayer cause no friends are buying this game as well as matchmaking being awful. If this doesn't show you the issue then I don't really know what to say.

You don't need to shoot him 3 times. The first shot stops him dead in his tracks then you just tap him for the kill before he resets.

[HumanDude]

Originally posted by Oboi:

Originally posted by HumanDude:

Bots tend to walk out into the hallway in very open areas where reviving them is awful. They also lag behind so much that by the time you get back where you need to be with 10 seconds to spare they somehow still manage to be only halfway to where you are. They just suck in a lot situations. Oh cloakers also dont attack them with a kick which is also interesting. Lastly though bot just get stuck in walls or ceilings too so thats completely out of my control in cases. I do try to revive them when it doesn't mean my armor getting shredded.

So my most commonly used weapon is the SA and i dont recall it one tapping the body or even two tapping (could be lag due to only online or something else idk). I also just don't like any other guns but maybe the scar. The SA though just doesn't fire fast enough for a cloaker whos in your face UNLESS you hit the head. So yeah i mean i guess skill issue but like only with this guy how fun.

I also have to deal with being the last alive when i play with others as well because my team just kind of runs in and dies. So of course im going to find a room where i can easily manage every other enemy and pick them off. In this situation i am right around a wall to take cover so a cloaker charging through the doorway is very close and activates their kick right away. Sometimes im reloading so legit I can't do anything. Sometimes theres not enough distance to allow me to shoot and kill these guys.

For what maps though i mean just any that have it to where the bots path badly or where my team just dies and i need to hold off. Almost every maps run ender has just been a cloaker more than anything. Again if you feel 120 milliseconds is enough for reacting to cloakers in some situations i suppose good for you but others uhm not so much even if they do see it.

To show off that the cloaker will attack you in ways where you have to react perfectly or somehow break the average reaction time here: https://streamable.com/qo0lkw

How am i suppose to react to this during an assault where there is absolute chaos with the sounds to where the cloaker spawn is muffled or just inaudible. Then visually i get a crazy 120 milliseconds to shoot him or even use the skill. Well the skill had hope but i guess good luck reacting. The gun you would need to headshot or shoot him 3 times in the body (not possible with this gun in this time frame). BTW I am in a defensive position with a team which yeah they will save me but the cloaker just shouldn't do this.

I'm sorry i get it in some situations where you have plenty of time but this is not reasonable. Mainly in solo? This is completely unreasonable as you already are weak enough but to just have the cloaker turn a corner even at times with the sound happening right as he appears on screen then kicking you in under 200 milliseconds is crazy. I'm sorry but i don't have the ability to play multiplayer cause no friends are buying this game as well as matchmaking being awful. If this doesn't show you the issue then I don't really know what to say.

You don't need to shoot him 3 times. The first shot stops him dead in his tracks then you just tap him for the kill before he resets.

Que the multitude of times shooting him does not in fact stop him dead in his tracks and just to back that as well here.

https://streamable.com/sb9m2x?src=player-page-share

Strange its like he got shot twice with no flinch... I do believe that it works sometimes but that should not be the case.

[Panic Fire]

Originally posted by HumanDude:

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Cloakers don't 1hitko you anymore so I see no problem with them in PD3.

They don't in payday 2? You don't even lose a life you just need someone to help you up which is basically the same thing here.

Its not the same at all. If you kill the cloaker in PD3 it auto picks up the player. In PD2 you need to kill the cloaker then manually pick up the player.

[Spoke]

He's the smoker of Payday, he's there to make you keep teammates in a vicinity

[HumanDude]

Originally posted by Spoke:

He's the smoker of Payday, he's there to make you keep teammates in a vicinity

I mean i get that but like do we just say screw any solo situations. Like what are we suppose to do when the enemy that attacks people who are solo only has the solo remaining. I clearly know payday 2 did something about this making it so the cloaker couldn't down you but not like it was even a big deal back then. Now its even worse with him being more aggressive so like add the function back?

[HumanDude]

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Originally posted by HumanDude:

They don't in payday 2? You don't even lose a life you just need someone to help you up which is basically the same thing here.

Its not the same at all. If you kill the cloaker in PD3 it auto picks up the player. In PD2 you need to kill the cloaker then manually pick up the player.

Inspire was constantly ran so this situation isn't all too different. Its just in payday 2 you kind of had enough time and a million ways to even counter the cloakers action. I see though what you mean but this one thing wasn't really even a problem back then.

[Panic Fire]

Originally posted by HumanDude:

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Its not the same at all. If you kill the cloaker in PD3 it auto picks up the player. In PD2 you need to kill the cloaker then manually pick up the player.

Inspire was constantly ran so this situation isn't all too different. Its just in payday 2 you kind of had enough time and a million ways to even counter the cloakers action. I see though what you mean but this one thing wasn't really even a problem back then.

Its not a problem now.....

[Netsa]

Originally posted by HumanDude:

To show off that the cloaker will attack you in ways where you have to react perfectly or somehow break the average reaction time here: https://streamable.com/qo0lkw

I'm sorry i get it in some situations where you have plenty of time but this is not reasonable. Mainly in solo?
[...]
https://streamable.com/sb9m2x?src=player-page-share

(Pubs really aren't that bad, seriously. The current bots are a massive downgrade from even the worst pubs.)
Okay, I'll concede that one, the Cloaker should give more time, especially when he doesn't have line-of-sight. In that example, even if you were able to know he was there from a audio cues or whatever, it would be hard to do anything about it since you're in a room with only one exit and he's behind a wall. You also wouldn't be able to get Rush easily since you can't sprint and there's barely any other enemies there.

I think we just disagree on how he should be nerfed.

I don't want Cloakers to just artificially twiddle their thumbs just because you're the last alive. Bot allies shouldn't be that weak, if you're going to be invincible to Cloakers just because you're solo, they might as well just not even spawn. If your whole team got downed, there's no reason why a Cloaker shouldn't be able to finish off the team, either, it's just another danger of letting everyone die. As far as I'm concerned, two things should happen:

1. Bots need to be massively buffed, and/or the feature to customize them needs to come back (yet ANOTHER feature that was in 2 but not 3...)
2. Cloakers should start their sprint from further away. As opposed to a few inches, they would start their sprint from a few further yards back, giving you way more time to shoot them since you can hear the audio cue for longer.

[HumanDude]

Originally posted by Panic Fire:

Originally posted by HumanDude:

Inspire was constantly ran so this situation isn't all too different. Its just in payday 2 you kind of had enough time and a million ways to even counter the cloakers action. I see though what you mean but this one thing wasn't really even a problem back then.

Its not a problem now.....

Play solo overkill and you will see im sure.

[HumanDude]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by HumanDude:

To show off that the cloaker will attack you in ways where you have to react perfectly or somehow break the average reaction time here: https://streamable.com/qo0lkw

I'm sorry i get it in some situations where you have plenty of time but this is not reasonable. Mainly in solo?
[...]
https://streamable.com/sb9m2x?src=player-page-share

(Pubs really aren't that bad, seriously. The current bots are a massive downgrade from even the worst pubs.)
Okay, I'll concede that one, the Cloaker should give more time, especially when he doesn't have line-of-sight. In that example, even if you were able to know he was there from a audio cues or whatever, it would be hard to do anything about it since you're in a room with only one exit and he's behind a wall. You also wouldn't be able to get Rush easily since you can't sprint and there's barely any other enemies there.

I think we just disagree on how he should be nerfed.

I don't want Cloakers to just artificially twiddle their thumbs just because you're the last alive. Bot allies shouldn't be that weak, if you're going to be invincible to Cloakers just because you're solo, they might as well just not even spawn. If your whole team got downed, there's no reason why a Cloaker shouldn't be able to finish off the team, either, it's just another danger of letting everyone die. As far as I'm concerned, two things should happen:

1. Bots need to be massively buffed, and/or the feature to customize them needs to come back (yet ANOTHER feature that was in 2 but not 3...)
2. Cloakers should start their sprint from further away. As opposed to a few inches, they would start their sprint from a few further yards back, giving you way more time to shoot them since you can hear the audio cue for longer.

I think if the bots could manage to stick to the player better then that would actually help a lot but I know they would still get caught in situations where they run off or dont avoid gas. I think it would also be nice for cloakers to hit bots instead sense you as a player are the only one actively working on the objective. I'm not even entirely sure how i want cloakers to be worked for when one person is alive but its just always too rough when on overkill i have to hide from enemies funnel them in at some spot but then a cloaker always does this even if i can hear it coming it hits me with little time to react.

The thing about pubs is I don't get anyone doing overkill and if i do its someone who wants to stealth in public? Then when it goes wrong they leave. Half the time though it will just be one person but thats it and most cases they aren't the best. Its not so much the players in my experience but the lack of players doing overkill or again its just poor matchmaking. I honestly will take anyone on overkill over the bots but at most i get like one person on my team in overkill. I do have crossplay on as well so Idk.

[SasuCrowVT/TTV]

The new cloaker is incredibly tame compared to PD2. The reason they are completely silent in this game is because they are one shot to the head with a high powered rifle and suffer small stagger if you shoot at them with any weapon. They're almost a non issue really, and they are there to keep you on your toes. Literally just shoot at them if you hear them, don't take time to fine aim.

It sucks going down to them sure, but it sucked way more in PD2.. especially when you didn't have good weapons if you were low level.

[LonesomeSparrow]

I don't think they are too bad all things considered BUT what happened to me multiple times now in solo sessions is a cloaker being able to hit me through a wall - kicking my teeth in while he is in a different room. apparently a tiny bit of your own character model glitching through a wall or door is enough for them to get a hit on you.
it's super annoying and needs fixing badly.

[DDRMANIAC007]

While I would say teamwork is the answer, in Payday 2 cloakers wouldn't kick you if you were playing a solo game.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by HumanDude:

The thing about pubs is I don't get anyone doing overkill and if i do its someone who wants to stealth in public? Then when it goes wrong they leave. Half the time though it will just be one person but thats it and most cases they aren't the best. Its not so much the players in my experience but the lack of players doing overkill or again its just poor matchmaking. I honestly will take anyone on overkill over the bots but at most i get like one person on my team in overkill. I do have crossplay on as well so Idk.

If they started their sprint from further away, you would be able to react even while bunkering in a room because you could sit at the back of the room and they would still come in. All you would have to do is just hail bullets at the doorway and not stand directly next to the doorframe.

I think some maps attract stealthers more than others. That is, the maps that are easiest to stealth. Dirty Ice, Rock the Cradle, and Golden Shark. On the rest, you might have a short wait time, but the chance of the map going loud is extremely high so if you're patient, you can still run loud. Don't go into Overkill expecting people to mask up right at the start of the game, just give them a little time. That's been my experience anyway. Still won't get full rooms most of the time, but heck, a duo allows more freedom than bots right now.

Originally posted by HumanDude:

but its just always too rough when on overkill i have to hide from enemies funnel them in at some spot but then a cloaker always does this

This is also really bothering me. I haven't done a lot of loud solo on Overkill, so I'm only just now getting acquainted with this. This is NOT how Payday 3 is supposed to be played! You're not supposed to just sit in one room hiding for 90% of the heist. 4-man teams never have to do that, that's a ridiculous waste of time. It sounds like Solo in this game is just extremely imbalanced no matter what the Cloaker's doing.

[SasuCrowVT/TTV]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by HumanDude:

The
This is also really bothering me. I haven't done a lot of loud solo on Overkill, so I'm only just now getting acquainted with this. This is NOT how Payday 3 is supposed to be played! You're not supposed to just sit in one room hiding for 90% of the heist. 4-man teams never have to do that, that's a ridiculous waste of time. It sounds like Solo in this game is just extremely imbalanced no matter what the Cloaker's doing. :csdsick:

Um.. that's how overkill was played in PD2. Not sure why it needs to be different now. Yah, a competent team with tank perks can continue the heist mid wave in PD3, but at the very least its still doable if your team decides to quit on you mid match. Its actually a lot more fairly balanced than Overkill was in PD2 imo