Death Screen randomly change LSTR number

[Bellona]

So, I intentionally getting killed by enemies and I noticed sometimes the death screen write LSTR 512 but sometimes LSTR2301.

Is there any lore why everytime we die we seemingly change LSTR unit?

[newk657]

Elster is suffering persona degradation, so her identity is lost between different LSTR units who lived different lives. Towards the end of the game, if Elster dies you might see a different unit name where the number is corrupted.

[oliwier.guliwer PL]

Originally posted by Heptagon:

So, I intentionally getting killed by enemies and I noticed sometimes the death screen write LSTR 512 but sometimes LSTR2301.

Is there any lore why everytime we die we seemingly change LSTR unit?

the Elster your playing in signalis is Elster S2301, the ARAR unit in the vents that was shielded from the disaster by hiding in the vents after going AWOL knows you from before the Bioresonance disaster at Sierpinsk S23, the Elster your playing had her memories replaced by Elster 512

the other popular theory is that your Neither Elster 512 or S2301 but a completely seperate Replika that was created by Arianes bioresonance powers that may or may not both have the memories of 512 and S2301, all the Dead elsters and the changing numbers and one death screen where it shows no/corrupted unit number could support this theory

both theories could be correct at the same time if in the first cycle before the facility got corrupted by bioresonance too much elster S2301 got her memories replaced, that might explain why you find one dead armored elster after the fake out ending

[Bellona]

Originally posted by oliwier.guliwer PL:

Originally posted by Heptagon:

So, I intentionally getting killed by enemies and I noticed sometimes the death screen write LSTR 512 but sometimes LSTR2301.

Is there any lore why everytime we die we seemingly change LSTR unit?

the Elster your playing in signalis is Elster S2301, the ARAR unit in the vents that was shielded from the disaster by hiding in the vents after going AWOL knows you from before the Bioresonance disaster at Sierpinsk S23, the Elster your playing had her memories replaced by Elster 512

the other popular theory is that your Neither Elster 512 or S2301 but a completely seperate Replika that was created by Arianes bioresonance powers that may or may not both have the memories of 512 and S2301, all the Dead elsters and the changing numbers and one death screen where it shows no/corrupted unit number could support this theory

both theories could be correct at the same time if in the first cycle before the facility got corrupted by bioresonance too much elster S2301 got her memories replaced, that might explain why you find one dead armored elster after the fake out ending

So, you mean the dead armored Elster is S2301?

Regarding about the LSTR unit death screen, I'm more inclined that LSTR we played is a seperate replika since some replika know us some don't so probably its mixed between them.

[Bellona]

Originally posted by newk657:

Elster is suffering persona degradation, so her identity is lost between different LSTR units who lived different lives. Towards the end of the game, if Elster dies you might see a different unit name where the number is corrupted.

I see this game is difficult to understand like TENET movie

[n13e86]

I think, the key word on that screen is "hardware".
No matter which person the protagonist is, the body is provided by and is registered as whatever is displayed on screen.
And, considering "ship of Theseus" description of the many death achievement, it would stand to reason that Elster gets "rebooted" by replacing parts - thus, muddying the waters as to whose body that is.

[Bellona]

Originally posted by n13e86:

I think, the key word on that screen is "hardware".
No matter which person the protagonist is, the body is provided by and is registered as whatever is displayed on screen.
And, considering "ship of Theseus" description of the many death achievement, it would stand to reason that Elster gets "rebooted" by replacing parts - thus, muddying the waters as to whose body that is.

Interesting...

[blablaji]

LSTR 512 is the original Elster that was in a relationship with Ariane, the 512 comes from the fact that they were piloting the Penrose 512.

LSTR S2301 was a unit stationed on S-23 Sierpinski, it's unknown why she was there since LSTR units are used for suicide missions to look for new planets.

Presumably the unit that 512 steals the arm and torso plating from was originally S2301, which would be why the new number shows up on death screens.

However in game I think the body you take those parts from is 512, since there would be no reason for S2301 to end up on the Penrose or why she would die there if she did find it somehow.
Since 2/3 regular endings have 512 Die in that exact spot where we get the arm, and the fake ending halfway through sending us back to the start of Sierpinski station, it's strongly implied that there's some kind of loop going on. Which means that 512 is constantly taking S2301's parts from her own body to fix herself again

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Edit: S2301 was originally requisitioned to help survey the mines, where she may have ended up finding the underground gate.
Somehow I forgot about Adler's journal confirming that the game loops, but in his journals and somewhere else it's confirmed that S2301 was only on the station for the start of the loop since supply issues / Falke getting sick prevents her arrival in subsequent loops, meaning the body we take S2301's arm from is definitely 512's

[Wind_Falcon]

Originally posted by blablaji:

LSTR S2301 was a unit stationed on S-23 Sierpinski, it's unknown why she was there since LSTR units are used for suicide missions to look for new planets.

This is the "Penrose decommissioned" "iconic white armor" unit mentioned in one of the readables (I think Replika Overview: LSTR, but I might be wrong I don't have my notes at hand). She's actually not the LSTR unit that was supposed to get stationed at Sierpinsky, that one didn't actually come, which his why ADLR is confused when he sees an LSTR unit around later and why the Kolibris think he's losing it (he is, but not for that reason). This unit came in search of Alina Seo due to the resurfacing Gestalt memories.

Originally posted by blablaji:

Presumably the unit that 512 steals the arm and torso plating from was originally S2301, which would be why the new number shows up on death screens.

The stealing an arm and torso part of the game is symbolic. Everything is happening inside unit 512's malfunctioning mind. She's assuming more of and going back further into those memories and hence more of that "personality", and getting further away from her own's. Hence why we play the Rotfront part afterwards (as well as the whole "remember our promise" thing). This scene is not literal, it is a visual metaphoric representation of what Elster is experiencing mentally.

There are no loops of any kind. The game's events we play through are jumbled because they are all nested corrupted memories between at least 2 Replikas and 1 Gestalt + Synchronicity and Pareidolia are at play further complicating things.

[n13e86]

Originally posted by Wind_Falcon:

Everything is happening inside unit 512's malfunctioning mind.
There are no loops of any kind.

Sorry, this sounds a bit harsh.
Stating things as if they were known facts, when there is enough evidence to support other theories, might not be a good idea.

[Wind_Falcon]

There is no textual evidence for loops. It's not even a theory. It's confused people that don't know the details of the game speculating prematurely and coming up with their own misguided conclusions.
The events of the game taking place inside Elster's mind is pretty much black on white confirmed by readables/cutscenes. Neither Synchronicity nor Pareidolia can work if it was otherwise as well, and again the game is pretty definitive about those (in its non-overt way of course).

[n13e86]

Originally posted by Wind_Falcon:

There is no textual evidence for loops. It's not even a theory. It's confused people that don't know the details of the game speculating prematurely and coming up with their own misguided conclusions.
The events of the game taking place inside Elster's mind is pretty much black on white confirmed by readables/cutscenes. Neither Synchronicity nor Pareidolia can work if it was otherwise as well, and again the game is pretty definitive about those (in its non-overt way of course).

What evidence do you consider textual?
For me, the Elster corpses and the Adler's diary are quite textual.
Furthermore, description of bioresonance suggests that whether or not "it is all a dream", this "dream" might be taking place in "reality".

[Wind_Falcon]

The "dream" is taking place inside Elster's mind. There is a new readable added in patch 1.2 that describes the abilities Bioresonant people can have ('Resonant Phenomena'), and one of them is dubbed as 'Remote Viewing'. This is a further reinforcement of the concept described in the 'Dream Diary' note near the end of the game (in which Ariane writes about peering into other people's dreams). This is what Ariane is doing from the cryopod, she is "peeping" into Elster's degrading mind, who in her persona degraded state is experiencing past memories as if in a "dream". This is what the giant Red Eye we see in some of the cutscenes and the cameras that follow you around etc. represent as well. And of course this ties up into the whole "wake up" and "remember our promise" part. When Elster "wakes", can she remember who she was, who Ariane is, what their past is? Or is she stuck thinking they are persons from one of those previous "false" memories?

The reality is that Elster is "dreaming", Ariane is looking into her mind as it is breaking down confined in the cryopod, while both of them are slowly dying on the Penrose. Elster's "dream" is not happening in/invading/influencing actual reality or anything of that sort.

Adler's diary is exactly textual evidence. Of a Replika experiencing persona degradation, Synchronicity and Pareidolia. His inclusion in the game is meant to show us a mirror of what our character is going through, only from a third person perspective. His character is not meant to be a revelation for something mysterious and supernatural going on, but exactly the opposite - to show us how unreliable his (and by extension ours) pov really is. How confused and detached from reality it is. How he doesn't understand what is happening around him and to him. He is the most unreliable character in the whole game, you're meant to cross-reference everything he says/writes with other sources (hence why the whole subplot with the Kolibri investigation into him exists).

In the end you have to think about it this way. If the game was about a loop of some kind, why is there no evidence for that, no direct or indirect way of explaining the mechanics behind how that's possible or why it is happening at all (outside "bioresonance is magic, anything can happen!" which is not only pure speculation but actually disproven by the various texts that describe bioresonance in the game itself), while at the same time the game is full of notes about persona degradation/stabilization, Replikas' minds and how they are derived from Gestalts, Synchronicity, Pareidolia, two sets of LSTR unit neuropatterns, the specific identity of the LSTR original Gestalt etc. etc.

In reality on one end of the scale you have empty speculation (regarding loops), and on the other virtually the whole game.

[n13e86]

Originally posted by Wind_Falcon:

In reality on one end of the scale you have empty speculation (regarding loops), and on the other virtually the whole game.

I really don't like your condescending attitude.

[Wind_Falcon]

It's not meant to be condescending.
I'm just tired and frustrated from this endless and pointless loops debate. The game is so subtextually rich and obviously constructed by people that know a thing or two about literature, and rather than moving the conversation into that direction, or at least being recognized by the supposedly hungry for "games are art" crowd for it's superb and immaculate plot construction, they cast it down as another "no one can know, it's up for interpretation" piece of garbage.
Either way, its really my arguments that matter in the end.

[n13e86]

Look, I hope you will reread your last message and will see what I mean. Because it's there, as well.
It IS condescending, whether intended as such or not.
You say it as if your arguments are somehow objective, and that nobody else understands the thing only you understand (as evident from the existence of "debate", and by your frequent references to all the people who got it wrong).
When I first saw your complaint about lack of factuality in youtube videos, I thought you simply meant minor errors - that are, indeed, there.
Now I see that you're talking about the one true theory to trump all other theories, that is uniquely correct. Which it is not, as I mentioned before - you simply decided to assign varying levels of importance to different parts of the story to prove your point.