Iron Mike

[WeirdScienceX]

The whole Iron Mike/Skizzo thing is such a weak point of the story.

- Skizzo manipulates Deacon into breaking the treaty
- Skizzo betrays Deacon to the Rippers
- Skizzo helps Rippers attack the camp
- Skizzo admits a deal with Carlos
- Carlos confirms it

Iron Mike then locks him up, saying he will get a fair trial, why does he need a trial? He has admitted his guilt, confirmed by others. You only need a trial when someone is disputing their guilt.

Mike then compounds this stupidity by letting Skizzo go.

He released the man who led the Rippers to his camp, which led to his people being killed and tortured,

He's supposed to be this 'wise' leader, but he's an f******* dumbass

[<empty>]

Skizzo reminded me so much of Micah from rdr2,dutch did a similar thing letting micah manipulate him into thinking that john and arthur were the rats,even though he knew it was micah all along just couldn't admit it as it was too late...

[WeirdScienceX]

Originally posted by <empty>:

Skizzo reminded me so much of Micah from rdr2,dutch did a similar thing letting micah manipulate him into thinking that john and arthur were the rats,even though he knew it was micah all along just couldn't admit it as it was too late...

Exactly, all the way through RDR2 I was thinking open your eyes you idiots when people didn't see what a scumbag Micah was

[Snake]

this entire mission chain is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I lost all my items that i had stored up. not to mention the Rippers with the 50 Caliber machine guns never run out of ammo

[xXx_42069YAMOM_xXx]

The whole game potray him as stubborn old fool, but each of those stubborn choice is the best choice he can chose after everything had happened at rouge camp. The Game even make an effort to let you know Iron Mike is supposed be an Older, Wiser Deacon.

Skizzo is the Darker side of Deacon whose main concern is about Surviving but take it to the Extreme, Deacon mention about did feeling relief when he let his wife go on the Chopper away from him during the Intro not in the sense of She will be Save but in darker tone of Her is slowing him down, it was because of her that's why they lost each other and Boozer is almost dead if keeping her around what's more will happened ?

Skizzo did not Manipulate Deacon, The Game did make it seem like Skizzo told Deacon what he want to hear but later when Deacon go with Iron Mike or did any missions that involve Ripper, He always show his lust for revenge while always against Iron Mike Treaty and pacifism.

Skizzo did not help them into the Camp if we was to believe what he said during the stand off against Ripper. Beside that we as the player have to put some thought into it if he was helping Ripper Kill everyone then why try so hard to buy all those Survivor Trust + Deacon to help him become the Camp Leader ? The so Called High Council of the Camp as that time have already Hate Mike's Pacifism at that point in the game so help them kill the others who he try to get the most support is unlikely.

In one of the early Missions with Iron Mike, He show Deacon one of his Leadership Failure at Rouge camp where he PRETEND offer a Peace Treaty with a group of Survivors who camp at the same town into A Room where his men and others camp men kill each other to own the town.

- Make a Deal with Ripper to extended his new Camp at Lost Lake survival ability.
- A Trial because it was one of his stupid rule he put up to advertise the camp being more Civilized. He can't go against it even if it blatantly stupid as Deacon have told Iron Mike in one of many Lost Lake Bounty Mission.
- He let Skizzo go because he believed he had broken the Cycle of Violence between Deacon and Skizzo, The prior Cyclce that was Deacon and Carlos being at each other result in lots of Survivors, Rippers Dying.

How Come Players supposed to catch on all these things on First Playthrough is beyond me.
The Whole Camp act was to setup Deacon become Iron Mike instead of Skizzo who will eventually become Lost Lake leaders at the end of Chapter 3.

[pre-man]

Every trial is for people, not for the guilty person! The point is for everyone to know what happened and what the punishment is. The trial prevents future self-proclaimed leaders from gaining ground on lies and slander.

[WeirdScienceX]

Originally posted by pre-man:

Every trial is for people, not for the guilty person! The point is for everyone to know what happened and what the punishment is. The trial prevents future self-proclaimed leaders from gaining ground on lies and slander.

Yeah, you don't have a trial for that, you would have a town meeting where it was explained, there were plenty of people there who could confirm the facts.

When you admit guilt there is no trial

[Sprinkles]

Originally posted by xXx_42069YAMOM_xXx:

The whole game potray him as stubborn old fool, but each of those stubborn choice is the best choice he can chose after everything had happened at rouge camp. The Game even make an effort to let you know Iron Mike is supposed be an Older, Wiser Deacon.

Skizzo is the Darker side of Deacon whose main concern is about Surviving but take it to the Extreme, Deacon mention about did feeling relief when he let his wife go on the Chopper away from him during the Intro not in the sense of She will be Save but in darker tone of Her is slowing him down, it was because of her that's why they lost each other and Boozer is almost dead if keeping her around what's more will happened ?

Skizzo did not Manipulate Deacon, The Game did make it seem like Skizzo told Deacon what he want to hear but later when Deacon go with Iron Mike or did any missions that involve Ripper, He always show his lust for revenge while always against Iron Mike Treaty and pacifism.

Skizzo did not help them into the Camp if we was to believe what he said during the stand off against Ripper. Beside that we as the player have to put some thought into it if he was helping Ripper Kill everyone then why try so hard to buy all those Survivor Trust + Deacon to help him become the Camp Leader ? The so Called High Council of the Camp as that time have already Hate Mike's Pacifism at that point in the game so help them kill the others who he try to get the most support is unlikely.

In one of the early Missions with Iron Mike, He show Deacon one of his Leadership Failure at Rouge camp where he PRETEND offer a Peace Treaty with a group of Survivors who camp at the same town into A Room where his men and others camp men kill each other to own the town.

- Make a Deal with Ripper to extended his new Camp at Lost Lake survival ability.
- A Trial because it was one of his stupid rule he put up to advertise the camp being more Civilized. He can't go against it even if it blatantly stupid as Deacon have told Iron Mike in one of many Lost Lake Bounty Mission.
- He let Skizzo go because he believed he had broken the Cycle of Violence between Deacon and Skizzo, The prior Cyclce that was Deacon and Carlos being at each other result in lots of Survivors, Rippers Dying.

How Come Players supposed to catch on all these things on First Playthrough is beyond me.
The Whole Camp act was to setup Deacon become Iron Mike instead of Skizzo who will eventually become Lost Lake leaders at the end of Chapter 3.

An interesting take albeit a little hard to follow due to, I'm guessing, English not being your native language? Either way, I believe I got the jist of what you're saying.

The only thing I take issue with is, "- He let Skizzo go because he believed he had broken the Cycle of Violence between Deacon and Skizzo, The prior Cyclce that was Deacon and Carlos being at each other result in lots of Survivors, Rippers Dying."

That 'cycle of violence' between Carlos and Deacon that cost so much collateral damage to IM Camp survivors & Rippers, was *only because* they were both in a position of power. What I mean by position of power, I simply mean they have the freedom to move anywhere and make new friends and/or live with other people that inadvertently get roped into their personal conflict. Also importantly, for the longest time, Deacon *wasn't even aware* Carlos (who unknowingly was really Jessie who he assumed dead), specifically had a vendetta against him & Boozer. If he were aware sooner, he most likely would have done things differently.

In the case of Skizzo & Deacon at that point in the story, the cycle of violence would have ended with the trial as they didn't show the viewer/player that Skizzo had any loyal followers that would want revenge for his trial or death or anything like that.

[Snake]

They should have let us put skizzo on a cross in front of a Horde Cave and watched him get ripped apart

[[JRE] Joe Rogan]

The writing in this game is horrendous tbh my wife is losing her mind watching me play this at how bad some of the writing at late game is.

[WeirdScienceX]

Originally posted by ARC Jordan Peterson:

The writing in this game is horrendous tbh my wife is losing her mind watching me play this at how bad some of the writing at late game is.

Yes, I love some aspects of the game, but the writing, and Deacons psychotic rants are a pain in the ***

Good job there are some mods which can shut him up :D

[simon.pete15]

Originally posted by DeadBeat:

Corporal St. John does all the side missions for the militia camps and reaches level 3 with each camp but Skizzo shows up at the very end and is suddenly a made Captain.

That's jumping WAY ahead of the time being discussed here.

Originally posted by WeirdScienceX:

The whole Iron Mike/Skizzo thing is such a weak point of the story.

- Skizzo manipulates Deacon into breaking the treaty
- Skizzo betrays Deacon to the Rippers
- Skizzo helps Rippers attack the camp
- Skizzo admits a deal with Carlos
- Carlos confirms it

Skizzo doesn't manipulate Deacon into breaking the treaty at all. He's perfectly aware that going into RIPper territory is breaking the treaty. He even says so while they're going in.

Yup, Skizzo betrays Deacon and does those other things, confirmed by Carlos/Jesse. To let the RIPpers have Deacon and Boozer, which might leave Lost Lake Camp in peace.

Iron Mike believes that everyone who isn't "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ their pants and trying to eat us", needs to be included. To help farm, hunt, keep the camps fed and safe. Otherwise there just won't be enough farming and hunting done to keep everyone fed. He isn't wrong. It doesn't even matter which camps, as long as they aren't killing each other.

[DeadBeat]

Originally posted by simon.pete15:

That's jumping WAY ahead of the time being discussed here.

True, post deleted

[DeadBeat]

Originally posted by simon.pete15:

Skizzo doesn't manipulate Deacon into breaking the treaty at all. He's perfectly aware that going into RIPper territory is breaking the treaty. He even says so while they're going in.

No? What is Boozer's condition at this point? Did Deacon know where this plane was and what it contained prior to talking to Skizzo? Would Deacon do anything to save his friend including breaking a treaty? Is it possible Skizzo knew that?

[WeirdScienceX]

Originally posted by simon.pete15:

Iron Mike believes that everyone who isn't "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ their pants and trying to eat us", needs to be included. To help farm, hunt, keep the camps fed and safe. Otherwise there just won't be enough farming and hunting done to keep everyone fed. He isn't wrong. It doesn't even matter which camps, as long as they aren't killing each other.

A treaty like that only works if people stick to it. The Rippers were going around attacking whoever they wanted, torturing along the way. And as soon as the agreement with Mike wasn't convenient they ignored it and killed his people.

This had nothing to do with medical supplies, purely the fact that Carlos was a nutjob and wanted revenge on the Mongrels

[simon.pete15]

Originally posted by WeirdScienceX:

Originally posted by simon.pete15:

Iron Mike believes that everyone who isn't "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ their pants and trying to eat us", needs to be included. To help farm, hunt, keep the camps fed and safe. Otherwise there just won't be enough farming and hunting done to keep everyone fed. He isn't wrong. It doesn't even matter which camps, as long as they aren't killing each other.

A treaty like that only works if people stick to it. The Rippers were going around attacking whoever they wanted, torturing along the way. And as soon as the agreement with Mike wasn't convenient they ignored it and killed his people.

This had nothing to do with medical supplies, purely the fact that Carlos was a nutjob and wanted revenge on the Mongrels

Iron Mike has become a pacifist. He has realised that the only way for humankind to survive is if they all support each other against the freakers. He won't pay a bounty to Deacon and Boozer when they send survivors to his camp either, unlike Copeland or Tucker, which caused a rift between them. He has a treaty with the RIP cult, they stay in Iron Butte, he stays out. He's aware of encroachments by RIP raiding parties, but gets annoyed with Deacon because he knows that's the excuse Carlos can use to invade. Not the same as small raiding parties.
So he sends Skizzo to re-negotiate the treaty, unaware that Carlos is Jesse, and just how much Carlos wants revenge, and just how badly Skizzo wants to be the camp leader. This all leads into Skizzo leading Deacon into a trap, then leading the cultists into Iron Mikes camp for Boozer.