Suggestion About Level System

[Crazy_Editor]

Totally remove the level system will absolutely eliminate the RPG element,which may reduce some pleasure winning a battle with no exp gain.I guess you can equip librarians with level system which affect their HP/stagger resist,also you can set a maximum level depends on whole library level to balance them.

[Finikksu]

"which may reduce some pleasure winning a battle with no exp gain"

As soon as you get any page you feed it like 50 puppet cards.
If it was no max level you didnt use it at all.

At least that is how many saw it.
Removing Level stopped Puppet Abuse. Do you want puppet abuse?!

[Crazy_Editor]

Originally posted by Finikksu:

Removing Level stopped Puppet Abuse. Do you want puppet abuse?!

I don't want that but PM had noticed that there will be a maximum core page stock in next update,so I think we don't need to worry about that.

[BrownianMotion]

Right now the main pleasure of winning a battle is gaining new cards, then trying to figure out a new deck composition around those new cards. Like Finikksu said, you would most likely not have low level librarians start new acts, especially after urban myth/plague.

[Doctor Irrational]

I think we can keep leveling and tie it to upgrading stats if you dedicate yourself to a particular page without having the option to realize other pages. So upon level up you choose to get a minor boost to HP or Stagger and on a milestone (random number here, lets say 10/20/30) you choose a major boost by gaining a Defense +1/Offense +1/ or Speed +1 (Not dice, but the speed roll so instead of 2-6, it'll be 2-7 or 3-6 or however those numbers work)

It'll incentivize doing fights over and over beyond grinding for passives on some pages to equip or getting combat pages and you can differentiate the repeat pages you do have towards a particular build.

That being said, I don't think PM needs leveling for the sake of it. The leveling system being removed doesn't make it any less of an RPG. If removing leveling reduces grind, that's a player benefit.

[Crazy_Editor]

Originally posted by BrownianMotion:

Right now the main pleasure of winning a battle is gaining new cards, then trying to figure out a new deck composition around those new cards.

That makes sense,I just feel badly for removing a whole level upgrade system,I mean it still can exist in another position...

[Crazy_Editor]

Originally posted by Doctor Irrational:

I don't think PM needs leveling for the sake of it. The leveling system being removed doesn't make it any less of an RPG. If removing leveling reduces grind, that's a player benefit.

Right now leveling isn't important at all,so removing it is quite reasonable.But I consider leveling could be more useful in this game.It seems only I feel pity for removing it.

[CarThief]

The only level-based thing i'm mildly worried about is how it utterly invalidates any would-be challange earlier missions pose, if you start out with full bloomin' 70HP or so.
(Like, how's that gonna work, is Kether/the Library going to have a -50% HP penalty or something until a certain progression level such as beating Bloodbath?)

That, and i'm worried how this affects Appearance Projection, like, do we just have to own a page now instead of levelling it, or have owned it, or... What, even?

Ah well, i won't mourn losing the level-grind, as indeed what he said, either you threw like 50 pages to level it to 30, or you didn't use it. There was no middle ground.

[Crazy_Editor]

Originally posted by CarThief:

The only level-based thing i'm mildly worried about is how it utterly invalidates any would-be challange earlier missions pose, if you start out with full bloomin' 70HP or so.
(Like, how's that gonna work, is Kether/the Library going to have a -50% HP penalty or something until a certain progression level such as beating Bloodbath?)

That, and i'm worried how this affects Appearance Projection, like, do we just have to own a page now instead of levelling it, or have owned it, or... What, even?

That hit the point,the Early battle is also need a parameter to limit librarians' HP/stagger,but if they remove level system,I dont know how to control them.
As for Appearance Projection,maybe the particular projection will be soon unlocked when you obtain a new core page.

[Grim Xzag]

They just gave the appearance projection to the player without needing to level up the page

Edit: as for HP values, depending on where it is in the timeline dictates how much HP the they have. Take my Yun Office Fixer for example:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2229573337
They ave 36 HP and 18 Stagger Resistance, which is appropriate for a the common 3 enemies with 10 HP.

Now take this Lulu Friend Page:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2229574405
42 HP and 22 SP

Now for Walter
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2229574254
63 HP and 29 SP, more closer to Cartheif's "70 HP or so"

[Pathetic]

Originally posted by Crazy_Editor:

Totally remove the level system will absolutely eliminate the RPG element,which may reduce some pleasure winning a battle with no exp gain

The main RPG element has always been page collection, both of key pages and combat pages. EXP and levels were literal artificial difficulty. To use new pages you had to spend time either farming sweeper or puppet fights for tons and tons of key pages to burn or using an awful stats key page over and over until it was at max level. Did you really feel fulfilment from being forced to farm every single page to full level or deal with a 50 hp page with no passives?

[CarThief]

It may have not been obvious, but the HP amount i was referring to was the maximum amount you get around level 30. Obviously, pages start out weak at level 1.

This will likely be a issue with early encounters in the likely scenario that all pages have maxed HP, and unless earlier enemies have similar HP boosts to compensate, it'll completely invalidate a lot of early fights if you basically got double the HP you used to have at that time.

Heck, even librarians without pages might be way beefier then the missions are meant to handle at the start. So they'll probably need to beef up the enemy HP to compensate, if we're getting level-30 worth of HP from the get-go without levelling pages. If we're not getting level-30 worth, even level-20's worth would still be considerable, as early-game relies somewhat on starting out weak at level 1 and growing as the enemies do, too.

[Grim Xzag]

Hmm, so if they were at their highest potential like they are implying, they would need to increase the stats of the earlier receptions?

I am also guessing you noticed that the screenshots are not of the current version

[Tronerfull]

The level up system needs to exist in a rpg. In this case since nobody uses pages with lesser levels due to their useless health and stagger res. I would suggest the following:

Mix the passives system and the level up one. Make the levels unlock passive slots and the health and stagger res be at max value since the start.

That way you incentivice obtaining battle symbols and unlocking new passive slots by repeating receptions.

[CarThief]

I did do a quick check and the lvl30 HP amounts seemed to be more or less the same to the max-level rerolled-patch HP values you showed. So i don't think any HP has changed, just the level system itself (soon to be gone entirely).

But yeah if you pretty much start out with say, friggin' 65HP Pete key page drop (i just checked, he's that beefy at lvl30), yet the enemies you face remain at 10-20HP that would kind of make early battles too easy.

The enemy's stats don't seem tied to level anymore anyway (i haven't even seen Yun use his passives while i was going after some key pages of his - dang low book droprate), so they could alter the enemies manually to be beefier if it does turn out that librarian pages start out very beefy, and so do the dropped key pages.

Ah well, atleast its not a problem for long, but still a rude wake-up call to people if they're breezing through, then get their butt handed to em around/past the Zwei arc.
Hm... Some fights past the Zwei where made with level20 stats in mind, those could also be at risk of being way too easy without alterations.

[Grim Xzag]

Originally posted by Tronerfull:

The level up system needs to exist in a rpg. In this case since nobody uses pages with lesser levels due to their useless health and stagger res. I would suggest the following:

Mix the passives system and the level up one. Make the levels unlock passive slots and the health and stagger res be at max value since the start.

That way you incentivice obtaining battle symbols and unlocking new passive slots by repeating receptions.

That is how it worked in the re-rolled patch.