Library Of Ruina

Library Of Ruina

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Ekimmak Nov 8, 2020 @ 6:08pm
Abnormality Pages I never take
So, after seeing a the thread on buffing Netzach's floor, it struck me that there's quite a few abnormality pages out there that just don't get used. So, decided to pick them out and see if I can figure out why, and maybe what could be done to make them more tempting.

Of course, someone might also point out why I should be taking them more often, and that's fine too. I'm noticing that a lot of them are breakdown pages, which by default are supposed to have built-in penalties.

Malkuth's Floor:
"The Fairies Care" (Level 1 Breakdown)
Heal a 15% HP at the end of each scene for three scenes. But if you take 3 hits during this time, lose 25% HP and lose the effect early.

Why I don't take it: This is a level 1 breakdown, meaning that it's pulled early in the fight, not late. This early on, you won't have taken enough damage to make it worth the 25% risk. Since it has a hard cap, not even Shi could make use of it, and the risk of taking 3 hits just... isn't worth the 45% HP. Heck, Happy Memories got buffed to last every act, so even that has more lasting power than Fairy Healthcare.

How to fix: I'd suggest swapping it with a later breakdown. Later in the fight is when people have taken enough damage to sincerely consider it, and if I'm pulling a breakdown in the third or fourth emotion levels, then I desperately need that healing. Of course, it might also mean I'm at such a disadvantage that can't control enemy directions, but still. More useful than at the beginning, where nobody's been hurt enough to need the healing.

"Footfalls" (Level 2 Breakdown)
When a librarian's HP is at 20% or lower, approach the enemy, deal 30% of the target's HP as damage, inflict 1-3 burn, and die.

Why I don't take it: It is glitchy as all getout. I've had librarians explode and do zero damage to the target.

How to fix: I'm not sure if it can be fixed. My trust in this page has been lost a long time ago.

"Worker Bee" (Level 2 Breakdown)
The enemy who dealt the most damage to the selected librarian is marked. Other allies deal extra damage to the marked foe.

Why I don't take it: I feel like this is more a case of the others being better. The idea of getting bonus damage on someone tanking the damage works on Malkuth's floor, since you can always make someone heal with Gluttony... but out of every level 2 abnormality page, I'd rather use them than this. It's a reverse of QoH's justice page, and the problem there is the problem here: you can't really control it, so there's no guaranteed advantage.

How to fix: I think it's more a case of situations not lining up to need it. It's probably handy in boss fights... but Vines is better, because then you can forcibly slow down the opponent.

"Loyalty" (Level 3 Breakdown)
At the start of the scene, all allies gain strength based on the amount of damage this librarian took. (1 strength for each 8 damage)

Why I don't take it: At the outset, because I don't understand it. Does it apply every scene? Or just this one scene? I feel like it's the latter, because if it was every, they'd specifically use that word. If it is the latter, I don't pick it because it's a highly situational level 3 breakdown, so always competing against Barrier of Thorns and Malice. And if it's the former... this late in the fight, it's unlikely you'll have someone with enough HP to capitalise on it.

How to fix: For a start, change if from "At the start of the scene" to "At the start of this scene" or "At the start of every scene", so we can tell exactly what it's doing.

Yesod's Floor:
Chained Wrath (Level 2 Breakdown)
Blunt Die gain 1-3 power. Speed is fixed at 1.

Why I don't take it: The penalty of speed die only rolling 1 is quite intense. Heck, it completely negates a lot of the benefits that All-Around Helper pages give! Maybe it works in fights where you have superior battle die numbers, but in those fights, I'm not pulling breakdown pages in the first place, and Clean, Lament and Coffin are all superior picks. I feel like no matter the situation, having someone get a -99 in haste just isn't worth a power bonus to a specific die type (albeit, one that I'm going to use a lot of on this floor).

How to fix: I feel it needs to be a bit less of a penalty. Either "reduce the max roll range on speed die", or "gain a permanent X bind", or maybe "cannot redirect attacks".

Rhythm (Level 1 Breakdown)
For the rest of the battle, gain 1 rhythm each scene. When a character with Rhythm successfully attacks, 25% chance of a random character gaining rhythm. Rhythm increases strength, and stagger damage taken by 1.

Why I don't take it: Uh... what? This is just so random and minor. Yesod also has four level 1 awakening pages, meaning that there will ALWAYS be pages I'd rather take than this. Even if I have the most garbage early turns ever, all negative coins, I can always take an awakening, and Seventh Bullet at least gives me some control over where the benefits and hindrances land.

... I suppose the fact that Yesod has four level 1 awakening pages is why I never see it, because I have good early game that results in it not being forced to draw.

How to fix: I think that if this had a lot more control, it'd be pretty potent. If it only went to the person that took the page, it'd be way too potent, but... I just don't see any benefits to this page.

Musical Addiction (Level 2 Breakdown)
Offensive Die gain 1-3 power. Defensive Die roll 1.

Why I don't take it: Unfortunately, this is more a my build problem than the cards. I know that back when it was all allies, this was really good, especially paired with Music. But a lot of my pages on Yesod's floor have defensive die at the front, meaning I'm going to end up losing rolls to make up for this power bonus. I guess it would pair well with Chained Wrath, giving an even more obscene bonus to blunt die, but... I just don't see it often enough to want it. Does not help that the negative to defensive die means that you lose the ability to recover stagger gauge.

How to fix: I think that rather than "rolls 1", make it "rolls minimum value" makes it less punishing. Either that, or build a character that has zero defensive die, but the problem is, I like tank builds, and most of my preferred pages have defensive die in inconvenient places.

Lament (Level 2 Awakening)
Deal 2-7 additional stagger damage versus enemies whose stagger gauge is at 25% or less.

Why I don't take it: Simply put, because I'd rather have Coffin OR Clean than this. Coffin has a chance to disable a foe's battle die, while Clean boosts offensive die power. Most stagger gauges aren't large enough to get proper bonus out of this. I guess it does mean that someone who would be staggered in two hits would be staggered in one... but it comes down to luck whether you're hitting someone in the right order to get the bonus from Lament.

How to fix: I dunno. Even if the power of the other two were nerfed, they would be preferred picks. Clean has ludicrously good synergy with level 1 awakening pages, and Coffin's random chance to seal a die is unmatched utility. At the moment, this is a boss breaker page, and I could see myself using it on emotion level 4 if I got unlucky and didn't draw Charge or Repetitive Pattern Recognition in the early game.

Dark Flame (Level 3 Breakdown)
At the Start of the scene, gain strength and protection based on the number of dead allies. If the librarian did not deal any damage with attacks by the end of the scene, take 3-6 stagger damage.

Why I don't take it: I simply never have a reason to. I've never reached emotion level 5 at that much of a disadvantage that it'd be more help than Eternal Rest finishing a boss, or Request cleaning up trash.

How to fix it: I don't think this needs a fix, actually. I haven't taken Yesod's floor into fights that are close enough to need this, but I'm sure that it'll be a lifesaver the time that I do need it. Situational doesn't necessarily mean bad.

Hod's Floor

Today's Expression (Level 1 Breakdown)
The face constantly shifts. Gain power based on the face.

Why I don't take it: In multi-act fights, this is bugged. The +/- power effect stays. But the mask does not. Meaning that in all following acts, you basically have a random power penalty that kicks in without any control over it. And because it's level 1, it's going to show up VERY early in the fight, even taking endgame pages into early fights can't end the first act before emotion level 2 is reached.

Correction! It does now reapply each act. But it vanishes if you use an EGO page on that character, so still not perfect.

How to fix it: Once the graphical bug is fixed, it'll be more of a good pick.

Glitter (Level 1 Breakdown)
50% chance to Allure each individual enemy each scene. When allured, they deal 2-4 extra damage and target this librarian. Deal 3-5 extra damage to allured enemies.

Why I don't take it: Oddly, Hod has 4 breakdown pages on her floor, so this one is more likely to appear than other breakdown pages. What I dislike about it is probably that I just don't have characters that can properly handle this sort of aggression. Hod's floor is about block die, and those aren't quite as good at handling everyone jumping on you at once as evade die are. There's also the randomness of it, can't properly gauge how many people are going to jump this person at once.

How to fix it: Give us more control over who is or isn't allured. Maybe "Enemies that attacked or were attacked" is the requirement for the 50% chance, instead of just "everyone and their mother".

Obsession (Level 2 Breakdown)
All characters inflict twice as many bleeds.

Why I don't take it: It never comes up. It's really frustrating, this is the best page on Hod's floor, but there are four level 2 awakenings, meaning that when you get to the 3rd and 4th emotion levels, you're getting more positive emotion coins than negative emotion coins, and you never pull breakdown pages. And whenever I do, it's always the objectively inferior Funny Prank page, which I will get to soon.

How to fix it: It's perfect the way it is, it just never gets PULLED. I have tried making a deck specifically for Stigmatize, using it on this floor, and I still never saw Obsession.

Friend (Level 1 Breakdown)
At the start of the scene, sneak a friend into one of the combat pages in hand if no friend is present. Pages with Friend gain power, but if unused for two scenes, it exhausts, dealing damage to the librarian.

Why I don't take it: I did originally take this one a lot. But then I realized just how double-edged this breakdown is on the current meta.

The current meta is to get as many pages into your hand as possible, due to the prevalence of double die characters. Friends are added to your combat bookshelf, but they aren't taken away on use, meaning that your hand will soon be chock-full of friends you can't get rid off, and that's not even considering that you can be staggered and miss a scene.

How to fix it: There's a few things that this needs. It needs to have Friends removed on use. It needs to not add the friend until you've drawn this turn's page, and check to see whether any of the new pages have a friend in them, because that's the problem. You can draw a new page with a friend, at the same time a friend is snuck into your pages.

I should test how this works with The Thumb's ammo mechanics, though. They might be able to hand this with their mass draw/discard pages.

Funny Prank (Level 2 Breakdown)
The first die rolls either maximum or minimum value. Take 2-7 damage if it rolls minimum.

Why I don't take it: There's better level 2 pages. And because Hod's floor is filled with Awakening pages, I'm never going to see it to pick it anyway.

How to fix it: Maybe remove the damage penalty? I feel like just cutting out the middle range might be enough of a drawback to remain a breakdown page. Depends on what pages I have. I definitely didn't consider that it'd make emotion coins on a Singular Strike build a lot easier to get, since now every clash is giving out the max/min coin.

Loving Family (Level 3 Awakening)
Gain six stacks of nettle clothing. Lose a stack upon taking a hit. Gain protection stacks equal to nettle clothing stacks each scene.

Why I don't take it: Maybe I should take this? A six protection bonus is surprisingly potent. I just... would rather have the counter-attacks of Well-Worn parasol, or the 2 stack status ailments that Gooey Waste gives out.

Netzach's Floor

Pebble (Level 1 Breakdown)
Each scene, three pages in hand will gain Pebble status. Restore 3-7 health using Pebble pages. Take 1-3 damage when not using Pebble pages.

Why I don't take it: Yesod has just enough pages on both sides of his level 1 pages, that I can precisely select what I'd prefer. And looking at the numbers, it's not that bad: 1 page with pebble can restore as much as 2 pages without it can cost.
I think it's just psychology going "I don't want to lock down my hand to what they pick". I tried putting it on Martina, and it got very painful to see it keep picking pages that don't aid what I needed to do at the moment.

How to fix it: I feel like this is just a case of it being overshadowed. It's a pretty good balance in its pages, just... you might need to build a deck that specifically doesn't care what pages they use, so that Pebble isn't a hindrance. Or man up and just use the non-pebble pages.

Teardrop (Level 2 Breakdown)
Upon death, all characters take 25% of this character's max HP as damage.

Why I don't take it: This is very spicy damage. But it's also targeted at my side as well as the enemy's. If I'm pulling enough breakdown pages at emotion level 2/3 that I have this available, then I'm not in a good place, and while someone's death is likely, it's also likely to be more of a hindrance to me than a help.

How to fix it: I'd be more likely to select it as a breakdown if it was enemy only. But if it was an awakening, it'd have a niche but potent use of me sacrificing one character to hammer the rest of the enemy (if I can get it roughly at the same time as A Token of Friendship)

Pleasure (Level 1 Breakdown)
Upon taking a hit, receive 2-5 bonus stagger damage and restore 1 light with a 50% chance (twice per scene)

Why I don't take it: The wording is... slightly unclear. If you manage to get Laughing powder, and then nothing worth taking, Pleasure might be worth it on a light-hungry character. Worst case scenario, you'd lose 3 extra stagger, and best case scenario, you'd recover 2 stagger, so it almost breaks even.

I just can't tell what parts of this breakdown are limited per scene, and what parts will continue to happen. And what parts are 50% and what parts are guaranteed.

How to fix it: Clearer wording on how this page works. If it's just "you might restore 2 light or no light, but you'll definitely be taking bonus stagger from a residual pounding", then it is bad and needs a fix.

Flower Petals (Level 2 Breakdown)
When the librarian sustains damage that's more than 10% of their max HP, all allies recover 3-9 stagger resist.

Why I don't take it: Now, this scales on the number of allies you have. The more in the reception, the better this is.

It's a breakdown, so if you're losing this hard, you unlikely have many allies to capitalize on this, or not much health. I guess it matches up better if you do the numbers: outside of Shi, the best pages we have around now have 90 HP, scaling to 9 damage taken. We can't make everyone Obj'dart, though, and they come around to more 5-8 damage. It's more a case of taking a single hit that's worth that much when you have defensive builds.

How to fix it: I'm not sure if it's broken, more a case of "It hasn't been out long enough for me to see it pulled enough.

Looking at this like that... I think I'll skip the rest of Netzach's pages, as they haven't been out long enough for me to properly try them.
Last edited by Ekimmak; Nov 8, 2020 @ 9:25pm
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
Ekimmak Nov 8, 2020 @ 6:12pm 
Tiphereth's floor

Blessing (Level 1 Breakdown)
Resistances against the type the page is weakest to becomes fatal. All other resistances become endured (picks randomly in ties).

Why I don't take it: I don't really use Tiphereth in hard fights. But I think the drawback here isn't so much the card, as the description not fully communicating how this page works.

How to fix it: I feel like it needs to properly communicate that it's for DAMAGE resistance, not stagger. I tried putting this on a Sweeper because I figured I could control it, that it would always go to Pierce. But it didn't, it put it on blunt instead.
So... page is fine, just change the text.

Gebura's floor

Prey (Level 1 Awakening)
Mark the first target attacked by this librarian after the page is selected. Deal 2-6 additional damage when targeting that foe.

Why I don't take it: The problem is rather simple. There's no enemy that lasts long enough for this to be a viable pick. No boss that lasts long enough to fight properly is a single act fight. The only boss available from act 1 is Crying Children, and those are a multiphase fight, so the buff is lost quickly.

How to fix it: When we get a boss in the first act that doesn't have multiple "kill me, and fight me in a new form" phases, then it'll be worth it.

Vengeance (Level 1 Breakdown)
Gain strength based on damage taken in the previous scene (1 strength per 5 damage)

Why I don't take it: Let's go back to our max HP number, 90.
We're getting a level 1 breakdown card, so we lost most rolls last turn. Being generous, and saying that was because we lost rolls against purely defensive pages, this means that we bank, at best, 18 strength in total.

It's basically a less potent Loyalty page. I shouldn't be comparing a level 3 page with a level 1, but it just feels like the times you get enough damage taken to get a really nice buff from this aren't in your control, and entirely possible to be while the character is staggered. I'm more interested in Claws of Savagery, due to granting the glass die, but that never comes up. And I probably have one Shi Corp page to give Crimson Scar to.

How to fix it: I'm not sure. I feel like there's just two awakening pages I pick every time from this floor, and one breakdown. There's just three that are superior picks.

Claws of Savagery (Level 1 Breakdown)
When more than 25% of max HP has been sustained, become untargetable and unclashable next scene. That librarian gains 2 strength and inflicts 1 bleed with each successful attack.

Why I don't take it: It never appears. Nothing personal against it, I just never see it appear.

How to fix it: Honestly, it almost feels like an awakening page than a breakdown. It's in response to high damage, yes, but it's purely beneficial unless you want that librarian to take over attacks to protect their friends.

Chesed's Floor

Torn Off Wisdom (Level 1 Breakdown)
When the librarian uses a page, discard a page and restore one light.

Why I don't take it: Uh... I like having my pages, thanks.You'd have to build a deck specifically for gaining as many pages as this page costs you, and as a level 1 breakdown competing against 4 awakenings, you aren't going to see it too often.

How to fix it: I'm kind of stumped. I guess it pairs well with Rake, but I like having my deck filled with pages. Maybe it's just a case of me not having a properly built character to exploit this, but this would just end up with the same problem Obsession has: too unlikely to appear.

Harvest (Level 1 Awakening)
After attacking an enemy with a higher stagger resist, recover 2-5 stagger resist.

Why I don't take it: It's competing with three other very interesting awakening pages, and this just feels underwhelming. It also shows up a bit too early: the first and second emotion levels show up in the first two turns, and I can't identify who might need stagger resist the most.

How to fix it: I actually think it'd do better as a level 2 awakening page. By this point, the fight should be far enough in that you can pick out who needs this, same as Gluttony.

A Warm Heart (Level 1 Breakdown)
At the start of the combat phase each scene, boost the power of slash die by 1-2 if the Librarian has 3 or more light.

Why I don't take it: A breakdown page competing against 4 awakening pages, for a start. But I think part of the problem is that I'm slightly unclear on how that bonus works. Does this mean I need to have 3 light at the start of the scene? Or does it mean I can't spend too much light, as I only get the benefit if I have at least 3 light after deducting my light costs?

How to fix it: Just a cleanup of the text description would be nice.

Binah's floor
She doesn't HAVE any abnormalities.

Keter Floor

I feel like this floor is somewhat well balanced. All abnormality pages have niche uses. When we get a third level 1 abnormality page, it's going to shoot the "Boss Level Roland" build in the foot, because we can't guarantee pulling Lies and Curiosity, but oh well.

Blood (Level 2 Breakdown)
Defensive Die gain 1-2 power. Recieve 3-5 additional stagger damage upon taking a hit.

Why I don't take it: Aspiration and Learning are more useful cards to take. But presuming you don't pick them... I feel like "Make them tankier but easier to stagger" is a bit of a contradiction. I guess with the addition of Cane Office, this could actually be a viable page to play, but we don't see this floor played in strong content due to realised floors having EGO advantage. Unless you're going for Boss Roland.

How to fix it: Ooh, this is tricky. It might be more used when that 5th librarian joins Keter, and I can have a Scars/Blood tank combo on someone from Cane Office. Just... not now.

Pulsation (Level 1 Breakdown)
Gain 1-2 strength at the end of each scene. At the end of each scene, if no offensive die were able to deal damage, lose 25% Max HP.

Why I don't use it: This is probably the nastiest sort of breakdown page one could ever get. This page will destroy you if you go for tanky builds, or if you get staggered, or if the page draws are just unlucky... 1-2 strength to all allies just is not worth the punishment. Also lethal to any Shi Corp pages, even with a cap of 30. That's half their HP in one strike!

How to fix it: The punishment is way too severe for the benefit it provides. Either amp up the amount of strength you get, or reduce the damage taken, because there's a lot of cases that make it hurt more than it helps.
PyroBurn235 Nov 8, 2020 @ 8:04pm 
Here's a few of the benefits I see in these:

Loyalty - currently applies every scene, is quite powerful if you can redirect attacks/know a charactor is going to take lots of hits
Chained Wrath/Musical Addiction - powerful on a heavy-hitter and can be useful to go last so that you can apply debuffs like smoke before hitting
Rhythm - can easily snowball fights with large Strength stacks since every stack of rhythm on anyone has that 25% to spread & I don't think they go away each scene on allies
Lament - great at staggering bosses, pairs well with Chained Wrath
Dark Flame - disadvantage card, would probably be useful on a ally death setup/Rhythm
Funny Prank - good emotion coin generation and great for Boundary of Death
Loving Family - a bit weak, but likely pairs with Glitter pretty well
Pebble - Great healing especially on Shi & the penalty isn't too bad once you've got decent health / decent damage to trigger on ally death passives
Vengance - great on a glass cannon build(or Shi), especially if you can heal them alot
Torn Off Wisdom - The new Thumb bullets are triggered on discard making this quite useful for them
Pulsation - 25% is a bit harsh, but 1-2 strength to every ally every scene as long as you keep attacking is quite powerful
Ekimmak Nov 8, 2020 @ 10:14pm 
Breakdowns are very hard to test, since it's hard to organise for you to have enough negative emotion to pull what you want to test.

Knowing Loyalty applies every scene makes it better, it just needs to say every scene, and not leave it vague like it is now.

I really can't be convinced that going last is a benefit. I'm sorry. I see the Thumb reception, and them absolutely mauling when they play a bunch of ranged cards on the same turn their battle die all roll sixes, and... no. I already have enough trouble maintaining clashes, I don't need to intentionally nerf my ability to control where the enemy aims.

I didn't think about Funny Prank combined with Boundary of Death. Might try that at some point. And I haven't gotten enough of the Thumb cards to really test them out.

The catch with Pulsation is just that. If you keep attacking. Staggers happen. As does the target dying before you get to hit them. It just feels a bit too double-edged for a 1-2 strength each turn.
Last edited by Ekimmak; Nov 8, 2020 @ 10:14pm
Sepherix Nov 9, 2020 @ 2:39am 
Should make one which is "abno pages I never see" due to that coin filtering thing. Can't see half of them most of the time unless i accidentally press space without doing anything.


On the topic ; Worker bee works even with just 1 damage taken. So you can control who is marked as its on most damage taken.
Loyalty was mega strong before Shi had to sneeze in and take every heal in the game for themselves which prompted a nerf to the heals and not to them.
So loyalty goes that way : take as much aggro as possible on a sweeper and get beatdown. Now you've stored 60 damage and convert it into a -strenght- buff for allies. And by the next turn, well, i doubt enemies resist staggering or dying for long, which will then heal back up the sweeper.

The card last forever, the buff a turn, so you need to get pounded to pound back again. And even then, a occasional 1-2 strenght every turn or so is always neat.

I agree on many of stuff you say. Lots of stuff that are too soon or too late to even matter at all.
Prey needs to re-apply on someone else when the target dies. Villain and worker bee both constantly re-apply to suit needs.
Surprisingly a chunk of stagger resist things are.. too specific to matter ? Like yesod just, by the time the target is in the 25% range its already staggered, which means it didn't matter.
Or having to be under the target's stagger which again, doesn't happen frequently.


One sad part are emotion V pages that just never see uses as its so long to get there and its slowed down by anyone who's one level behind.
So by the time you have them, the combat is over since you already have 2 ego pages to wreck havoc with.
I'd prefer going back to full rng as i got to see more than just 7 pages. Because when leveling all you get is 2 good 1 bad or 3 good. And they're preset so even the 1 bad is always the same you need to fail so MUCH so you can see bad 3. By that time the problem would be surviving at all.
Ekimmak Nov 9, 2020 @ 3:10am 
I find that early breakdown pages are more likely to happen, as every now and then you just get unlucky and everyone gets outrolled.

It's the level 2 breakdowns that are the problem, because that's the point where you're hitting your stride and intelligently overpowering the opponent, or getting unlucky and outsped, meaning you have to fight back intelligently anyway.

Fairies Care is the one that I actively think needs a change. Everything else is "Eh, not for me, but it might have niche uses", but Fairies Care is actively in the wrong bracket to ever see any use.
Last edited by Ekimmak; Nov 9, 2020 @ 3:11am
none Nov 9, 2020 @ 6:17am 
well, the vengeance abno page is actually easy to use tho. you just need lyla's hp recover on hit passive and the sacrifice hp type combat page. bonus if you can get the other abno page that give hp recover on last offensive hit and strength
Ekimmak Nov 9, 2020 @ 3:20pm 
Originally posted by none:
well, the vengeance abno page is actually easy to use tho. you just need lyla's hp recover on hit passive and the sacrifice hp type combat page. bonus if you can get the other abno page that give hp recover on last offensive hit and strength

I'd test to see if that actually works.

But the HP sacrifice skills are very bad at earning negative emotion coins. (Insult to injury, I got a full bar of red coins to get to emotion level 3 when trying to test this out).

I wish there was an easier way to earn those red coins. Maybe a 1-cost or 0-cost version of Stigmatize?
Grey Rebl Nov 9, 2020 @ 7:14pm 
As a Hod simp, I find Today's Expression to be extremely powerful for a breakdown page. It's essentially free 2+ power so long as you've got the patience.

Emphasis on patience...

Combined with the block abnormalities, it takes "turtling" to a whole new level.

Same for Friend. 2-4 power for the affected page is honestly just busted. Why NOT use it? It could turn my puny 0-cost light regen page into something I can consider clashing with.

Building around it even escalates its advantages—even I have to admit, building a deck without any three-costs feels so strange, but it works. Just spam my cards like there's no tomorrow, and I won't have to worry about taking the penalties.

Of course, not to say that's the only way. The Thumb's new discard and ammunition mechanics could easily let you circumvent the penalty if you don't plan on using it short term—or if your entire hand is saturated with those clingy things. It's not like it'll disappear from the deck later on. In fact, I think discarding it will let you get Friends on the pages that you do want compared to when you don't do anything with the card at all.

Gotta keep making Friends, y'know?
BrownianMotion Nov 9, 2020 @ 7:14pm 
I would disagree that Chained Wrath is not that bad, i hate that it variable 1-3 power but the speed fixed is not that bad. You wont be redirecting attacks with that nugget, but you have overwhelming firepower. Stack that with musical addiction for another 1-3 power + puppet 2's blunt passive and you will be able to win most if not all blunt clashes.

This would be more OP if Observe and Opportunity Spotted does not start with a defensive dice (since that will drop to 1).
Assuming average of 2 power from chained wrath + 2 from Musical and and + 1 from puppet and + 1 from liu, you basically have + 6 str for blunt... add another + 3 from observe when you land those. Now your Opportunity spotted, Undertake prescript will wreck anyone...

But yea i agree with your other choices, those are not ones that i would pick if i can avoid them. Of course you have to keep in mind that all of this is relative and not absolute. It is more meaningful to compare these bad pages with other good pages and look at the interactions that way versus just listing out these "bad" pages. Given a hand of all these "bad" pages, you will still have to pick one.
Last edited by BrownianMotion; Nov 9, 2020 @ 8:57pm
Arch-Knee Nov 9, 2020 @ 7:41pm 
I would argue that Friend isn't in itself bad, it's more due to how strong draw and especially WotP is in the meta.
A deck that is more of a self-sustain than "fill the hand" can benefit from that.
Of course it won't help if you get staggered, but that's the risk you take with breakdown cards.
none Nov 9, 2020 @ 8:43pm 
oh and i would argue that chained wrath and musical addiction is actually good abno page. in the first place, i think this two abno is intended for build that focused on counter card since one of counter card mechanic is that it could still be activated even if the enemy is faster as long as you use the card that have counter (i think it's called "combat start" trigger type)

also, it became a strong choice of abno page now since counter mechanic is changed to repetitively be used as long as the dice win clashes.
Last edited by none; Nov 9, 2020 @ 9:22pm
Flygoniaks Nov 10, 2020 @ 9:45am 
I'm glad that I'm not the only person who finds "Funny Prank" undesirable. Honestly, it seems like its only strong use is increasing the likelihood of a BoD max roll, which can be VERY powerful. It can also be useful when combined with "Cocoon," but getting both in one fight is probably less consistent. Other than that, I feel like the benefit isn't worth the cost in the majority of situations.

Also, yeah, "Pulsation" is a TERRIBLE on Shi Pages, to the point that I'm surprised it doesn't have a max value. I didn't think of it at the time, but that's potentially another reason to go through with Shi Page HP adjustments I've proposed a few weeks ago. Just me thinking to myself here.
Last edited by Flygoniaks; Nov 10, 2020 @ 9:49am
Traumaturgy Nov 10, 2020 @ 4:17pm 
I mostly disagree with the notes given on the pages Musical Addiction, Rhythm, and Chained Wrath for Yesod's floor, along with the other distinctions of Torn Off Wisdom and Friend.
On Yesod's floor, I have a Librarian who uses the Daring Decision esque strategy [which I might also slot Focus Fire into soon enough], who works exceptionally well with the Offensive Scaling of Addiction and Rhythm. Chained Wrath, meanwhile, is generally great despite the Speed locking, because the power is just too tantalizing.
Torn Off Wisdom is a more curious case. I enjoy building decks with perhaps a little too much Draw power, and it's proven quite effective for me - though, of course, the amount I use Chesed's floor as of yet is... lacking.
Friend has been touched on in this thread already enough.
Also I've had success with Dark Flame as well but low testing blah blah blah. When I do end up in a bind it *has* helped me before but that's not often.

By the way, why exactly is Blood a strictly worse Social Distancing, again? Yeah, yeah, 1-2 *Defensive* Die, not just Block, which means better Evade dice... but there's also the fact that not only are the Power Buffs worse overall, but there's also the Secondary detriment of the Stagger DMG you take, whereas Social Distancing is purely positive...
Ekimmak Nov 10, 2020 @ 6:22pm 
Man. Everyone is giving me grief on disliking Chained Wrath and Musical Addiction.

I don't like that the drawback is forced 1 rolls (either defensive die or speed die). Chained Wrath counters all the benefits of All-Around Helper, and Musical Addiction makes them a lot more vulnerable.
Traumaturgy Nov 11, 2020 @ 8:17am 
In fairness, those 1 Rolls *can* be detrimental, but specific builds don't have to particularly deal with them. No defensive dice to roll 1 with Addiction if you don't have any in the first place. The same builds don't require speed if they're there purely for damage, only to pile onto individual enemies with one-sided attacks. Addiction is terrible if you have good amounts of defensive dice, and Chained Wrath is likewise terrible if one plans to use a character to intercept and counter.

Also, the Helper card that gives extra power can be good and is blocked by Chained Wrath, true - however, it's perfectly possible to slot it onto another Librarian. It may not be strictly optimal, but it works well enough.
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Date Posted: Nov 8, 2020 @ 6:08pm
Posts: 18