Let's talk about Brawl

[fugggg]

I think Brawl's existence limits a lot of design potential of future pages. A card that copies another card is simply just too abusable, hence why I think PM was forced to include a lot of "On-use" and "Start of combat" effects to the latest 3+ cost pages, such as Crack of Dawn, Observe, Binding Arms, Wrath of Torment, Heavy Peaks, and Hard Rehearsal, whose effects don't get copied by Brawl.

I think Brawl's concept itself is fine, but it is too accessible at 3 copies in a 9 page deck. In the future, we will definitely get more 4-cost pages, and even 5, or 6-cost pages as the game nears completion. I do not think it is a good idea to limit all those cards' powers to "On-use" and "Start of combat" effects just because of Brawl.

I think a viable solution would be to switch the rarities of Brawl and Scratch That!, so you can only have 1 copy of Brawl in a deck. I think an amber page being able to copy a 4, 5, or 6 cost page's dice rolls would be very strong, but not overbearing to the point where PM always has to keep Brawl in mind when designing future pages.

Of course, I realize this will completely change how Gyeong-Mi's deck works in the current state. This change will definitely make it weaker if it is built traditionally as before, but I think it is a necessary change in order to free up design space in the future.

[Finikksu]

I think for one, Brawl should be limited to only be usable in Geong mi's Page.
Like Yujin's 4 cost card can only be used by him.

I think Brawl need a limiter too. I'm think in an effect like "drains all remaining light upon use" Yeah, as a 3 cost is fine early game, but after emotions is too spamable.

[CarThief]

I guess i could live with Brawl being exclusive to Geon Mi pages, ideally still being able to carry x3, because seriously, its utterly useless if you can't pack 3.
Alternatively, up to 3 Brawl cards per team.

I only ever use it on his page anyway because he synergizes with it quite nicely, but i suppose there's other pages that can do that too and be even more broken about it.

Besides all that, i kinda like the Brawl tactic, and giving us some powerful tactics should be fine.
I mean, we're already seeing stuff like units with 100+HP if you synergize the new office's pages with % healing like Fairies or Child of the Galaxy. There will always be cheese, and since it's a singleplayer game, why not keep some of it in? Lord knows we'll need it against some future insane fights... :P

[lobster]

this post summarized: "i hate fun in a single player game"

[Yhune]

Originally posted by lobster:

this post summarized: "i hate fun in a single player game"

"More like I want more fun in the future, not to be limited by one fun card."

[Hank]

Originally posted by lobster:

this post summarized: "i hate fun in a single player game"

Yeah I don't think the op dislikes fun, but rather there seems to be a distinct focus on making sure Brawl doesn't just be the win all solution by stealing every card. The issue isn't that Brawl is good please nerf, but Brawl's effect might be curving the design and card effects of every future card. Thus making all the other card's weirdly designed like avoiding the Elephant in the Room.

I started a discussion a while ago that talked about how Brawl was going to be the strongest card as we get higher and higher costing cards. And my belief still stands. If we get two good 4 cost cards I won't hesitate but change all my teams to Brawl boiling down team picking to which floor music/background art style I like more.

[fish444]

Brawl is and will always be balanced by choosing a random card. The fact that you cant control it makes it worse against fights were you need to hit specific cards, like for status synergy or enemies with very specific resists.
Consider a harder Tomerry fight where each enemy or even the boss is weak to only one type of damage. You cant really focus enemies with brawl because you cant guarantee what damage type you get, you cant build up power via observe.

Doesnt feel like it's worth using Brawl for any of the new Shi association pages.
I'm not even sure if Brawl is the best deck right now because it just isnt consistent.
Gyeong-mi works well with Brawl stats because of his passive but even the his resistances are not optimal.

They can still adjust Brawl after we find a way to break it, which i havent seen happen yet.

[Finikksu]

Originally posted by fish444:

Brawl is and will always be balanced by choosing a random card. The fact that you cant control it makes it worse against fights were you need to hit specific cards, like for status synergy or enemies with very specific resists.
Consider a harder Tomerry fight where each enemy or even the boss is weak to only one type of damage. You cant really focus enemies with brawl because you cant guarantee what damage type you get, you cant build up power via observe.

Doesnt feel like it's worth using Brawl for any of the new Shi association pages.
I'm not even sure if Brawl is the best deck right now because it just isnt consistent.
Gyeong-mi works well with Brawl stats because of his passive but even the his resistances are not optimal.

They can still adjust Brawl after we find a way to break it, which i havent seen happen yet.

Then means you are not using a good Brawl deck.
Just as an example. My Geong Mi deck is:
-2 Wait up
-2 Feast
-2 Taloring
-3 Brawl
And If I wanted to control the deck even more I would replace the feast for 1 Wait up and 1 Tailoring.
Brawl only has a 50% chance to take the card I want, and even that is a lie, because I usually keep my hand controlled.


Anyways the theme is not Brawl is OP, is not. But that Brawl limits the creative freedom of 4+ cost card in the future.

[CarThief]

I dunno, one can make Brawl pretty tough. My preferred setup is: Brawl x3, Loosen Up x2, Daring Decision x3, Scratch That x1.

That pretty much ensures you'll be pulling either 4 attacks from another Brawl, a 4-8 combo repeated 3 times from Daring Decision (without that nasty discard), or a hefty 5-9 combo from Scratch That, ideally followed by Loosen Up for some light regen.

All those 3-cost cards besides Brawl have very high rolls, so they will be able to counter most things the enemy throws at you. And otherwise, using it as a one-sided attack is also still considerable DPS and can pretty much wreck a staggered enemy who's at 25 or less HP.

Still, its a singleplayer game, and i don't want to see the Brawl tactic become useless... So the worst i would've done to it is make it exclusive to Geon Mi's page, and allow up to 3 copies in the combat bookshelf.

Perhaps i should look into using Brawl on other pages too, but i'm having too much fun abusing Collission+Loosen Up for attacks that do high DPS, reliably win clashes, and regenerates all its spent light back.

[Hank]

Originally posted by fish444:

Brawl is and will always be balanced by choosing a random card. The fact that you cant control it makes it worse against fights were you need to hit specific cards, like for status synergy or enemies with very specific resists.
Consider a harder Tomerry fight where each enemy or even the boss is weak to only one type of damage. You cant really focus enemies with brawl because you cant guarantee what damage type you get, you cant build up power via observe.

I disagree just load a brawl deck up with a bunch of pierce high cost cards or blunt high cost cards, and you don't really need to worry about random because you built the deck to ignore that effect. If Brawl can only choose between Transpierce/Tailoring/Collision well it's gonna do pierce damage right?

Originally posted by fish444:

Doesnt feel like it's worth using Brawl for any of the new Shi association pages.
I'm not even sure if Brawl is the best deck right now because it just isnt consistent.
Gyeong-mi works well with Brawl stats because of his passive but even the his resistances are not optimal.

I also agree Brawl isn't the best deck right now, and I also agree that strength stacking is way more overpowered, and a much more consistent strategy. Observe into Wrath of Torment/Opportunity Spotted and Stacking The Red Notes/Unforgotten Melodies are much more powerful combos.

[paulogabbi]

wait people use braw ? LoL for me this card is ♥♥♥♥, i prefer to use deck how comb whit the page in question

[Yhune]

Brawl also can work with the ranged pages, and possibly new nothin personnel card.

[The Hate of Haters]

Originally posted by Yhune:

Brawl also can work with the ranged pages, and possibly new nothin personnel card.

Brawl is absolute garbage with ranged cards, simply because the only page that can have both brawl and ranged has only a single dice and has no passives that facilitate light regen. When it comes to "boundary of death" it isn't really worth it to spend 3 light for a 25% chance of +45 when you can do the same by spending only 2. In general, brawl decks excel at dealing incredible amount of damage in a short time frame, normally falling off the further in the battle you go since there aren't any good high cost cards that help you cycle through the deck

[Yhune]

Originally posted by The Hate of Haters:

Originally posted by Yhune:

Brawl also can work with the ranged pages, and possibly new nothin personnel card.

Brawl is absolute garbage with ranged cards, simply because the only page that can have both brawl and ranged has only a single dice and has no passives that facilitate light regen. When it comes to "boundary of death" it isn't really worth it to spend 3 light for a 25% chance of +45 when you can do the same by spending only 2. In general, brawl decks excel at dealing incredible amount of damage in a short time frame, normally falling off the further in the battle you go since there aren't any good high cost cards that help you cycle through the deck

Problem seems like brawl does limit some card designs, though about the ranged page, there is a 1 light card that regens 3 light for just using it, so light is not a problem and boundary with brawl seems pretty broken with malkuth floor in mind.

[TeeQueue]

Brawl is very usable if your luck isn't complete trash.

I never get anything worthwhile with it, no matter how I build my deck, unless I forgo light regen entirely-which means dead turns.

My luck is amazing. :V

[The Hate of Haters]

Originally posted by Yhune:

Originally posted by The Hate of Haters:

Brawl is absolute garbage with ranged cards, simply because the only page that can have both brawl and ranged has only a single dice and has no passives that facilitate light regen. When it comes to "boundary of death" it isn't really worth it to spend 3 light for a 25% chance of +45 when you can do the same by spending only 2. In general, brawl decks excel at dealing incredible amount of damage in a short time frame, normally falling off the further in the battle you go since there aren't any good high cost cards that help you cycle through the deck

Problem seems like brawl does limit some card designs, though about the ranged page, there is a 1 light card that regens 3 light for just using it, so light is not a problem and boundary with brawl seems pretty broken with malkuth floor in mind.

That's is generally pretty bad because it is not only a wasted turn but also another card that brawl can steal dice from, which means that you are weakening your deck just by having it. Moreover, since you only have a single dice, it becomes pretty hard to thin out your deck in a timely fashion so that you can consistenly hit the good damaging cards with brawl, which is relatively easy with two dice pages