Blue, Red, or White?

[em_t_hed]

??

I got the roommates ending and honestly, all things considered seems the best ending right now.

None of what the 3 say sound better to me....

Blue, Red, or White?

[Old_Wolf]

LOL decisions, decisions. The same decisions that me and several of my friends, and my girl friend (who is now my wife of 25 years) where discussing back in 1993, when this was first released. It was a blast of a game back then. And apparently it still is now.

[MaGi]

I gotta back up what ReverendTed and others are saying here (and reiterate what I said on Page 1)... yes the novels add flavour to the world but there is NO need to read any novels or play the sequels to understand the plot of Myst. It is entirely self-contained.

It is an interesting thought that Atrus might've been lying to you also (in all my years in this community, this is the first I've ever seen anyone with that interpretation!). He might be. But all the clues in the game point to him being the one telling the truth.

The simplest way to come to this conclusion is to simply play all three of the trapped endings:
- Sirrus and Achenar both laugh in your face and tell you what a fool you were for believing them. At this point, they each play their hand as the villain.
- Atrus admonishes you for not listening to him, but he doesn't gloat. He is entirely consistent with his story from before you enter the book.

In the "good" / "white page" / "freedom" ending, Atrus explains the story in detail, and it is consistent with everything you've read in the game, as well as the Sirrus/Achenar endings where they admit to being the villain.

[em_t_hed]

Originally posted by MaGi:

I gotta back up what ReverendTed and others are saying here (and reiterate what I said on Page 1)... yes the novels add flavour to the world but there is NO need to read any novels or play the sequels to understand the plot of Myst. It is entirely self-contained.

It is an interesting thought that Atrus might've been lying to you also (in all my years in this community, this is the first I've ever seen anyone with that interpretation!). He might be. But all the clues in the game point to him being the one telling the truth.

The simplest way to come to this conclusion is to simply play all three of the trapped endings:
- Sirrus and Achenar both laugh in your face and tell you what a fool you were for believing them. At this point, they each play their hand as the villain.
- Atrus admonishes you for not listening to him, but he doesn't gloat. He is entirely consistent with his story from before you enter the book.

In the "good" / "white page" / "freedom" ending, Atrus explains the story in detail, and it is consistent with everything you've read in the game, as well as the Sirrus/Achenar endings where they admit to being the villain.

All the 'clues' point to him telling the truth because you want to conveniently ignore 'facts' which are present.

In which case you offer the solution to just play out all 3 endings.

Hindsight is 20/20 then.

[LucidEpyon]

There is also the more meta perspective, in 1993 (and still mostly true today) the "best" ending is the one hidden behind the most puzzles/side-quests/things to do. So the fact that the white page is more hidden than the final blue and white pages point to it being the "good" ending.

Not exactly the best clue for pointing to what ending to pick as it relies on meta knowledge from outside the game, but it is still a data point that can be used.

Note: I am putting "good" in quotes here because there is a discussion to be had over if Atrus actions in the game are actually good or not (this becomes even more clear in the 3rd and 4th games in the series when Atrus's actions start to come back to haunt him).

[wildflower]

I just finished the game, and used a save file to go back and get all four endings. If there is any doubt about which is the good ending, have a look at the descriptions on the achievements. Only one is described as good. The others are all clearly described as bad. Case closed.

[em_t_hed]

Originally posted by wildflower:

I just finished the game, and used a save file to go back and get all four endings. If there is any doubt about which is the good ending, have a look at the descriptions on the achievements. Only one is described as good. The others are all clearly described as bad. Case closed.

of course ... gamer logic

[Silarn =| +P |=]

So this whole thread is pretty spoiler, but definite spoilers below.

Like, I get it. It's a contrarian viewpoint and I can sorta understand where it's coming from. But as others have said, you have his message to Catherine, his journals, and your interaction through the D'ni book.

The brothers are clearly motivated by greed and lust for power. Their stories conflict. Atrus's journals do not represent a man whose motives are selfish or mean-spirited, and he never contradicts the facts shown in the game. If you trust him, then you would trust that the Brothers, tempted by greed and forbidden treasure, trapped themselves in the Red and Blue books inadvertently as he claims.

If you still don't believe Atrus, there's one final clue. Sirrus's message to Achenar in Channelwood. If you enter the small hut behind Achenar's sacrificial altar and press the fourth button on the imaging device, Sirrus has left the following message: I hope I pushed the right button, my dear brother. What a very interesting device you have here. I'm not erasing anything important, am I? Hahahaha! Remember, he is preparing. Take only one page, my dear brother. Again this helps confirm Atrus's story and shows that the Brothers were plotting against him.

I guess you could still argue that he really actually trapped them in the books intentionally, then went to D'ni and found out his Myst book was sabotaged and was stuck there. But then you still have the conflicting accounts where Sirrus claims he trapped them and then 'went on a journey to find out who was guilty and never returned' or Achenar claiming he was dealt a mortal blow and trapped them both because he didn't know who was the real murderer. And neither of them want you to so much as touch the "green book", much less link to it. (Proving both accounts are clearly false.)

At this point I think you really have to stretch to still think Atrus is as guilty as the Brothers. I suppose it's a bit odd that he knows that they're trapped in the Red and Blue Books since he's stuck in D'ni. You could argue that it was his best guess as to what happened since there weren't a lot of other places the Brothers could have gone to. I tend to think it was just a convenient place for Cyan to explain what happened, regardless of the logic of it.

[em_t_hed]

Originally posted by Silarn =| +P |=:

So this whole thread is pretty spoiler, but definite spoilers below.

Like, I get it. It's a contrarian viewpoint and I can sorta understand where it's coming from. But as others have said, you have his message to Catherine, his journals, and your interaction through the D'ni book.

The brothers are clearly motivated by greed and lust for power. Their stories conflict. Atrus's journals do not represent a man whose motives are selfish or mean-spirited, and he never contradicts the facts shown in the game. If you trust him, then you would trust that the Brothers, tempted by greed and forbidden treasure, trapped themselves in the Red and Blue books inadvertently as he claims.

If you still don't believe Atrus, there's one final clue. Sirrus's message to Achenar in Channelwood. If you enter the small hut behind Achenar's sacrificial altar and press the fourth button on the imaging device, Sirrus has left the following message: I hope I pushed the right button, my dear brother. What a very interesting device you have here. I'm not erasing anything important, am I? Hahahaha! Remember, he is preparing. Take only one page, my dear brother. Again this helps confirm Atrus's story and shows that the Brothers were plotting against him.

I guess you could still argue that he really actually trapped them in the books intentionally, then went to D'ni and found out his Myst book was sabotaged and was stuck there. But then you still have the conflicting accounts where Sirrus claims he trapped them and then 'went on a journey to find out who was guilty and never returned' or Achenar claiming he was dealt a mortal blow and trapped them both because he didn't know who was the real murderer. And neither of them want you to so much as touch the "green book", much less link to it. (Proving both accounts are clearly false.)

At this point I think you really have to stretch to still think Atrus is as guilty as the Brothers. I suppose it's a bit odd that he knows that they're trapped in the Red and Blue Books since he's stuck in D'ni. You could argue that it was his best guess as to what happened since there weren't a lot of other places the Brothers could have gone to. I tend to think it was just a convenient place for Cyan to explain what happened, regardless of the logic of it.

Like I said. Conveniently ignoring facts.

We find 3 men trapped.
Those traps were made to capture people of greediness and lustful of power
Forced through puzzle after puzzle maze after maze for what reason. Surely not to befriend people (all very anti social behavior) not to mention that no one is around
Stories told from 3 trapped men. all filled with half truths half lies

as i said before, nothing suggests the father didn't succumb to what he feared, his reason for creating the traps. after all, he writes and an age is born

[Veotax]

You're allowed to have your own reading on the plot based on what's in the game, there is no problem with that. But at the end of the day this is a remake of a nearly 30 year old game that has had multiple sequels and books released since the original version came out.

You can absolutely argue that the game game doesn't give enough evidence that Atrus is innocent (the presence of a gravestone with a name engraved in a foreign script muddies things a bit, but that was something added in the remake to be a reference to the books), but there is a canon answer.

Edit: Hell, the events of this game have been retconned so much over the years that the story as presented in this game is barely even canon anymore.

[Gijoemike]

Originally posted by em_t_hed:

Originally posted by Silarn =| +P |=:

So this whole thread is pretty spoiler, but definite spoilers below.

Like, I get it. It's a contrarian viewpoint and I can sorta understand where it's coming from. But as others have said, you have his message to Catherine, his journals, and your interaction through the D'ni book.

The brothers are clearly motivated by greed and lust for power. Their stories conflict. Atrus's journals do not represent a man whose motives are selfish or mean-spirited, and he never contradicts the facts shown in the game. If you trust him, then you would trust that the Brothers, tempted by greed and forbidden treasure, trapped themselves in the Red and Blue books inadvertently as he claims.

If you still don't believe Atrus, there's one final clue. Sirrus's message to Achenar in Channelwood. If you enter the small hut behind Achenar's sacrificial altar and press the fourth button on the imaging device, Sirrus has left the following message: I hope I pushed the right button, my dear brother. What a very interesting device you have here. I'm not erasing anything important, am I? Hahahaha! Remember, he is preparing. Take only one page, my dear brother. Again this helps confirm Atrus's story and shows that the Brothers were plotting against him.

I guess you could still argue that he really actually trapped them in the books intentionally, then went to D'ni and found out his Myst book was sabotaged and was stuck there. But then you still have the conflicting accounts where Sirrus claims he trapped them and then 'went on a journey to find out who was guilty and never returned' or Achenar claiming he was dealt a mortal blow and trapped them both because he didn't know who was the real murderer. And neither of them want you to so much as touch the "green book", much less link to it. (Proving both accounts are clearly false.)

At this point I think you really have to stretch to still think Atrus is as guilty as the Brothers. I suppose it's a bit odd that he knows that they're trapped in the Red and Blue Books since he's stuck in D'ni. You could argue that it was his best guess as to what happened since there weren't a lot of other places the Brothers could have gone to. I tend to think it was just a convenient place for Cyan to explain what happened, regardless of the logic of it.

Like I said. Conveniently ignoring facts.

We find 3 men trapped.
Those traps were made to capture people of greediness and lustful of power
Forced through puzzle after puzzle maze after maze for what reason. Surely not to befriend people (all very anti social behavior) not to mention that no one is around
Stories told from 3 trapped men. all filled with half truths half lies

as i said before, nothing suggests the father didn't succumb to what he feared, his reason for creating the traps. after all, he writes and an age is born

This statement is false. We do find 3 trapped men. But Sirrus and Achenar are in trap books. Atrus is in a different world D'Ni, and cannot return due to his linking book being broken due to the missed page.

Atrus writes of befrending and assisting the people of the age in his journals. He and his sons helped the people build the fort in the Mech. Age to protect themselves from pirates.

Atrus also states that an age is linked to using the Art. Hence linking books. Also there are multiple Myst linking books, one in each age. The books aren't the Age, it is a link between 2 worlds.

Fact 1: Atrus left a letter to his wife on the rock. Following the clues and playing the message shows Atrus is concerned about the damage caused by one of his sons. He states at that time he doesn't know which one.

Fact 2: If you click on the green book, he will warn the player in in the first 3 sentences about the missing page. I am trapped here. A single page from taken from my myst linking book. He also explains the trap books to you. To rescue him and prevent yourself from being trapped in the world of D'Ni you have to find the page. One of his son have hidden it.

Fact 3: Sirrus has raised taxes and covets gold. This is in a note from the Mech. Age. Achenar states he has ordered his subjects to not pay this new tax. This is admission they rule over the inhabitants of the Ages as kings.

Fact 4: There is a hidden message in Channelwood. Sirrus informs Achenar to steal only one page. Mentioned above in Fact 2.

Fact 5: There are 2 parts of a torn note in Stoneship and Channelwood(?) explaining where the white page is hidden. These are found in the brothers bedrooms.

Fact 6: The bothers accuse each other of murdering their father. Except see facts 4 and 5. Both brothers know good and well he is trapped in D'Ni and alive. They worked together to put him there.

Fact 7: The bothers always blame the other brother for burning the books and spout they are innocent.

Fact 8: Atrus doesn't have a bedroom in any age.
What Fact 7 means: Atrus views himself as a visitor in the ages. He never sets up shop. This is supported by his views in the journals. He is a wandering adventurer.

Fact 7: Sirrus rooms are loaded with wine, gold, and treasure. He is a greedy evil man.

Fact 8: Achenar has severed heads in a box and multiple torture rooms. He is a crazed murderer.

So you have ample evidence the bothers conspired against their father. Atrus shows how he is worried and concerned about his sons. He mentions the destruction of the books. Atrus warns you about ALL the traps. Red, blue, and his own situation. You find multiple contradictions in the brothers reports and statements.


All of the above is in game, no novel required.There isn't any contradiction in any of Atrus's statements or letters found in the game. Atrus is the only one who isn't lying to you. So the statement about him spouting 1/2 truths and lies is incorrect.

[em_t_hed]

Originally posted by Gijoemike:

Originally posted by em_t_hed:

Like I said. Conveniently ignoring facts.

We find 3 men trapped.
Those traps were made to capture people of greediness and lustful of power
Forced through puzzle after puzzle maze after maze for what reason. Surely not to befriend people (all very anti social behavior) not to mention that no one is around
Stories told from 3 trapped men. all filled with half truths half lies

as i said before, nothing suggests the father didn't succumb to what he feared, his reason for creating the traps. after all, he writes and an age is born

This statement is false. We do find 3 trapped men. But Sirrus and Achenar are in trap books. Atrus is in a different world D'Ni, and cannot return due to his linking book being broken due to the missed page.

Atrus writes of befrending and assisting the people of the age in his journals. He and his sons helped the people build the fort in the Mech. Age to protect themselves from pirates.

Atrus also states that an age is linked to using the Art. Hence linking books. Also there are multiple Myst linking books, one in each age. The books aren't the Age, it is a link between 2 worlds.

Fact 1: Atrus left a letter to his wife on the rock. Following the clues and playing the message shows Atrus is concerned about the damage caused by one of his sons. He states at that time he doesn't know which one.

Fact 2: If you click on the green book, he will warn the player in in the first 3 sentences about the missing page. I am trapped here. A single page from taken from my myst linking book. He also explains the trap books to you. To rescue him and prevent yourself from being trapped in the world of D'Ni you have to find the page. One of his son have hidden it.

Fact 3: Sirrus has raised taxes and covets gold. This is in a note from the Mech. Age. Achenar states he has ordered his subjects to not pay this new tax. This is admission they rule over the inhabitants of the Ages as kings.

Fact 4: There is a hidden message in Channelwood. Sirrus informs Achenar to steal only one page. Mentioned above in Fact 2.

Fact 5: There are 2 parts of a torn note in Stoneship and Channelwood(?) explaining where the white page is hidden. These are found in the brothers bedrooms.

Fact 6: The bothers accuse each other of murdering their father. Except see facts 4 and 5. Both brothers know good and well he is trapped in D'Ni and alive. They worked together to put him there.

Fact 7: The bothers always blame the other brother for burning the books and spout they are innocent.

Fact 8: Atrus doesn't have a bedroom in any age.
What Fact 7 means: Atrus views himself as a visitor in the ages. He never sets up shop. This is supported by his views in the journals. He is a wandering adventurer.

Fact 7: Sirrus rooms are loaded with wine, gold, and treasure. He is a greedy evil man.

Fact 8: Achenar has severed heads in a box and multiple torture rooms. He is a crazed murderer.

So you have ample evidence the bothers conspired against their father. Atrus shows how he is worried and concerned about his sons. He mentions the destruction of the books. Atrus warns you about ALL the traps. Red, blue, and his own situation. You find multiple contradictions in the brothers reports and statements.


All of the above is in game, no novel required.There isn't any contradiction in any of Atrus's statements or letters found in the game. Atrus is the only one who isn't lying to you. So the statement about him spouting 1/2 truths and lies is incorrect.

we have a 'true believer' here... no corroboration from other sources suggesting what the father says is true... none of which i consider 'fact'

[Veotax]

The problem is there isn't enough in the game to learn about Atrus, you have a letter, his recording to Catherine and his journals which are probably more than a decade old. There is lots to tell you what the sons are like, nothing recent to tell you about Atrus.

Personally I feel it's a leap to assume that he's as bad as the brothers, based on evidence solely in the game, but there is nothing to say that he isn't either. Honestly there isn't enough to get a read on him in recent years, the journals were written when the brothers were children or possibly even before they were born in some cases.

[Giggles]

then what do you consider a fact? Isn't a fact something that happened and there is a proof of? We all gave you events that are mentioned listed in the game where is proof for - in the game. Therefor a fact. Do you use another dictonary?

Lets go over the things you mentioned before. As I assume you consider these "facts".

"We find 3 men trapped." Thats true, good start.

"Those traps were made to capture people of greediness and lustful of power" Thats only true for Sirrus and Achenar. The green Book never was a prison book. It is a normal linking book to D'ni, wich is on earth by the way. The reason why Atrus is trapped there is because his linking book to Myst isn't working. The red and blue book actually were designed as traps. Thats the different. The green book links to D'ni a place were people lived! The blue and red book link to a prison age were no one is supposed to be living. Thats the fact.

"Forced through puzzle after puzzle maze after maze for what reason. Surely not to befriend people" The reason for the puzzle are to protect the books especially the Myst books and the other ages respectively, but so that Atrus and his family still has access to it. (Like a over complecated lock)

"(all very anti social behavior)" Thats not a fact, thats interpretation.

"not to mention that no one is around" And there is reason for that. There are signs of what happened through some ages. Mostly mechanic and channelwood age.

"Stories told from 3 trapped men. all filled with half truths half lies" I want to know which lies or halt Thruth there is in Atrus story. Where does he contradicts something we see through the game? For Sirrus and Achenar we all are on the same page i think.

[em_t_hed]

Originally posted by Giggles:

then what do you consider a fact? Isn't a fact something that happened and there is a proof of? We all gave you events that are mentioned listed in the game where is proof for - in the game. Therefor a fact. Do you use another dictonary?

Lets go over the things you mentioned before. As I assume you consider these "facts".

"We find 3 men trapped." Thats true, good start.

"Those traps were made to capture people of greediness and lustful of power" Thats only true for Sirrus and Achenar. The green Book never was a prison book. It is a normal linking book to D'ni, wich is on earth by the way. The reason why Atrus is trapped there is because his linking book to Myst isn't working. The red and blue book actually were designed as traps. Thats the different. The green book links to D'ni a place were people lived! The blue and red book link to a prison age were no one is supposed to be living. Thats the fact.

"Forced through puzzle after puzzle maze after maze for what reason. Surely not to befriend people" The reason for the puzzle are to protect the books especially the Myst books and the other ages respectively, but so that Atrus and his family still has access to it. (Like a over complecated lock)

"(all very anti social behavior)" Thats not a fact, thats interpretation.

"not to mention that no one is around" And there is reason for that. There are signs of what happened through some ages. Mostly mechanic and channelwood age.

"Stories told from 3 trapped men. all filled with half truths half lies" I want to know which lies or halt Thruth there is in Atrus story. Where does he contradicts something we see through the game? For Sirrus and Achenar we all are on the same page i think.

Everything you consider 'fact' are 'stories' ... as i said unable to corroborate the information given

you would rather believe the lies of the stories for your immersion into the game vs what is.

ive already stated what is

[wildflower]

Ok, here's why the 'roommates' ending is a bad one.

You are trapped forever in D'ni with only Atrus as a companion. If Atrus has been lying, you are still doomed to spend eternity there. Bad ending. On the other hand, if Atrus is being honest, you are still doomed to spend eternity there. Bad ending.

Or consider this: There is ample evidence to show that both Sirrus and Achenar are corrupted and evil. They remain trapped in their books, at least for the time being. It is reasonable to assume someone else could arrive on Myst Island the same way you did. The newcomer will not see the incriminating evidence, since there is no need for them to find the pages you already brought back. One of the evil brothers could easily convince the newcomer to bring the last page from the fireplace vault. There is nothing you can do about it because you are trapped elsewhere. Forever. Really bad ending.