Skill issue or bad early game design

[DeltaTwoZero]

First of all, I am always approaching game casually, unless it explicitly says I should not (Tarkov, Maraduders. dating sims).

With that in mind, I do not understand how I am supposed to have research, food, generators and coal at the same time with only 10 people? I can't figure out how to balance out these things while also having a clone lab up and running.
There's also a question of air purity which is difficult because it circles back to the problem I mentioned which is more power->more gens->only 10 humans.

[porkmeister26]

Originally posted by VR Doktor:

First of all, I am always approaching game casually, unless it explicitly says I should not (Tarkov, Maraduders. dating sims).

With that in mind, I do not understand how I am supposed to have research, food, generators and coal at the same time with only 10 people? I can't figure out how to balance out these things while also having a clone lab up and running.
There's also a question of air purity which is difficult because it circles back to the problem I mentioned which is more power->more gens->only 10 humans.

It's very hard even if you don't try to build a submarine factory. You have to build a second generator to power the research building, carb factory and the 2 living modulates, and it's a close thing ff you have enough 02.. I save a brand new game firs t thing in case I run out of resources before I can expand enough to mine for them

[NzFox]

Originally posted by VR Doktor:

with only 10 people?

you don't only have 10 people, you have 18 plus an engineer, unless you are actively ignoring the first quests for a challenge mode or something

[DeltaTwoZero]

Originally posted by porkmeister26:

Originally posted by VR Doktor:

First of all, I am always approaching game casually, unless it explicitly says I should not (Tarkov, Maraduders. dating sims).

With that in mind, I do not understand how I am supposed to have research, food, generators and coal at the same time with only 10 people? I can't figure out how to balance out these things while also having a clone lab up and running.
There's also a question of air purity which is difficult because it circles back to the problem I mentioned which is more power->more gens->only 10 humans.

It's very hard even if you don't try to build a submarine factory. You have to build a second generator to power the research building, carb factory and the 2 living modulates, and it's a close thing ff you have enough 02.. I save a brand new game firs t thing in case I run out of resources before I can expand enough to mine for them

This is exactly what I am talking about.

[DeltaTwoZero]

Originally posted by NzFox:

Originally posted by VR Doktor:

with only 10 people?

you don't only have 10 people, you have 18 plus an engineer, unless you are actively ignoring the first quests for a challenge mode or something

Well, I was expecting to have a freedom of choice in these kinds of games. Survive The Aftermath was much more forgiving in early access.

[NzFox]

you have freedom of choice, you can choose to ignore the quests and not be rewarded for the things you are building anyway or you could not, its up to you, but you can't really cry about not having enough people when you are choosing to ignore getting more.
This is the equivalent to turning away to first group of survivors in surviving the aftermath and then wondering why you don't have more people

[JimBobRedneck]

One of the best pieces of advise I can give for early game (and even later on) is that just because you built it, doesn't mean it needs to be fully staffed or even turned on. If you don't need 5+ O2, only put one person in the oxygen generator. If you're not actively creating clones, turn off the cloning lab. Same for the submarine factory - put one person in it, build a sub, turn it off. Excess food production is fine until you hit storage cap and then completely wasteful afterwards. Turn off a carb farm or take a person out of it until storage drops some. You can survive for quite a while without a coal mine by using your subs to mine the surface coal deposits, especially if you're not wasting electricity.

[DeltaTwoZero]

Originally posted by NzFox:

you have freedom of choice, you can choose to ignore the quests and not be rewarded for the things you are building anyway or you could not, its up to you, but you can't really cry about not having enough people when you are choosing to ignore getting more.
This is the equivalent to turning away to first group of survivors in surviving the aftermath and then wondering why you don't have more people

You can't call that "Freedom of choice" if you are forced to complete quests to progress the game. That's for campaign and tutorial.

[porkmeister26]

Originally posted by NzFox:

Originally posted by VR Doktor:

with only 10 people?

you don't only have 10 people, you have 18 plus an engineer, unless you are actively ignoring the first quests for a challenge mode or something

I started a new game yesterday and I had the living mods built but turned off until I got 75 food. I never got my 4 workers, but later I got the engineer.

[Malcomlelutin]

75 food + 2 living = +6 crew
80 coal = +1 engineer
unlock tier 2 research = +1 scientist

[GADefence]

I did this a few hot patches ago but... If you do just the base missions you get a few extra guys. Enough to run 2 coal generators, a coal extractor (I think a third coal generator as well), 2 research labs and a food producer. You'll have to keep bouncing between turning off the extractor, a second food lab and the submarine station - only ever have it on while building subs.

I had 1 exploration sub, 1 transport sub, 4 builders and 10 extractor subs running before I even had clones up and going. Once you have the basics (food and so on), do energy research first - -40% coal use and +20% power output is amazing. Then go down clone potency - not even worth doing clones until you have -5 mutation +3 potency researched.

Then do research as you want and start growing. Use most of your habitats for power or you'll find the game becomes unplayable quick.

Exploration is best done by putting lights out in a grid and then putting sonar and then growing in the direction you need with lights - creatures tend to attack unpowered sonar stations in darkness which are cheap to repair so just keep expanding and you should be fine.

[Zep Tepi]

-cough- free air and power from connected outposts -cough-

(I may have only been mining coal to so I could build more outposts.) -whistles innocently-

Juggle people around. Not everything needs to be fully staffed all the time. Keep the bare basics going while you stockpile research. You can get surprisingly far with just a few people.

(I'm certain that outpost thing will get 'balanced' at some point...)

[Lminith]

Coal Generators are really bad.

Discarding the Outposts (Research 60) which have a steep coal cost upfront (although it saves on the long run) there are other ways to deal with power issues.
Specially since early on you don't need extra O2 production.

Check Power Tech Tree.
Turning a Habitat into a Biomass Generator (Research 90) gives +18 Power at no fuel cost and no pollution, using only Concrete and Steel to build. It also needs 1 less crew to operate than a Coal Gen.
The Research is easy to get as you save from other things made redundant by this.
You only need to use 30 on Carbohydrate Farm and 90 on Biomass Gen.
Later on get a Mess Hall on Population tab for 90 to remove the handicap from low quality food.

A Basic Air Purifier (Research 90) gives +10 O2 quality but uses 2 Power and 1 O2, this is a lot of inevestment to break even from an inneficient Coal Gen.
Running one Coal Gen + one Air Purifier is a lot worse than a solo Biomass Generator since same Power produced, +1 O2, 0 fuel used and -1 crew used (not counting fuel crew).

Conclusion. More efficient in every regard.
More Power per crew. Power without fuel consumption. Power without pollution.
Also saves up Research.
This also allows you to save up coal to later unlock Outposts for added exploration while keeping efficiency.

PS:
IMO Coal Generator, Air Purifier and Light Towers need more balancing between themselves.
Be it more Power produced, less polution, better O2 purification or less power consumption on lights.

[weavah9]

The crew you get as quest bonuses are, as people point out, kind of like the game taking some of the decision-making away from you. But the things the the game tells you to do are things you probably should be doing anyway, so it's not really a loss.

Especially since getting one engineer when you have an adequate coal pile makes one of your generators that much more efficient.

And I have to second that person who recommends using the biomass power plants. They're great, but they do eat the habitat so you can't use it for food (skip ahead to the molecular protein thing if you can) or gene samples (you know for the cloning that is apparently the whole reason we came down here).

[GADefence]

Originally posted by weavah9:

The crew you get as quest bonuses are, as people point out, kind of like the game taking some of the decision-making away from you. But the things the the game tells you to do are things you probably should be doing anyway, so it's not really a loss.

Especially since getting one engineer when you have an adequate coal pile makes one of your generators that much more efficient.

And I have to second that person who recommends using the biomass power plants. They're great, but they do eat the habitat so you can't use it for food (skip ahead to the molecular protein thing if you can) or gene samples (you know for the cloning that is apparently the whole reason we came down here).

I only needed 3 protein farms to keep a colony of 150 going.

It's not really an issue, since they only need like 1 out of 4-5 meals as high quality or something.

Also, they don't require coal so you don't worry about UV and they don't require air filters. I had 1 coal mine, 5 advance coal and every other power node from habitats at the end of the game. 4 habitats for fish. Went well.

[porkmeister26]

Originally posted by GADefence:

Originally posted by weavah9:

The crew you get as quest bonuses are, as people point out, kind of like the game taking some of the decision-making away from you. But the things the the game tells you to do are things you probably should be doing anyway, so it's not really a loss.

Especially since getting one engineer when you have an adequate coal pile makes one of your generators that much more efficient.

And I have to second that person who recommends using the biomass power plants. They're great, but they do eat the habitat so you can't use it for food (skip ahead to the molecular protein thing if you can) or gene samples (you know for the cloning that is apparently the whole reason we came down here).

I only needed 3 protein farms to keep a colony of 150 going.

It's not really an issue, since they only need like 1 out of 4-5 meals as high quality or something.

Also, they don't require coal so you don't worry about UV and they don't require air filters. I had 1 coal mine, 5 advance coal and every other power node from habitats at the end of the game. 4 habitats for fish. Went well.

You are correct about Protein. Workers will pass on carbs if given a choice