Close to completion lets talk guns

[thorin.hannahs]

What guns and perks have you enjoyed the most?

Tribunal- Golden Bullet, I enjoy the concept

Vopat Trencher- Choke Point, long range shotgun with satisfying visual mechanics

Constancy Automatic- Feedback Loop, just keep shooting

Rapier- Silver Bullet and More Bang, rapid fire or grenades

SB sniper- Headsplosions, just satisfying

Heritage Gun- Dualist and Choke Point, just very versatile with both modes very satisfying visual mechanics

Sterlak Verso- Any perk, I only use the smg mode

Spiker- Wait for it, boom, boom, boom

I expect a hell of a lot of 50-50 and Silenced Limp. Also I don't dual wield because I like having access to powers and the hackamajig. I think perks that give buffs should have a visual indicator that it is active the way Feedback Loop works. Hearts floating off of Verso and Bull Horns for the Heritage gun.

[Watermelons]

I really liked the Spiker's Wait for It and Echolocation, though ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Echolocation is incredibly loud.
The sniper rifle's Coiled Snake was fun, but it doesn't feel like it offers a huge damage boost, at least against a Colt. I've only ever made one hit kills on people who probably had zero health or damage reduction trinkets on.
The 50-50 is straight up busted for PvP with the Slow trait, it shoots too much to be given such a good trait lol. I would looove to use the Vopat Trencher more if it had the Slow trait, or if the 50-50 didn't have it at all. The Trencher feels badass with Chokepoint as you said, or the double pump trait.

All in all, I think a lot of traits for weapons were pretty underwhelming. The traits that compel you to swap between modes on the Strelak Verso and Heritage guns were good, the Striker's echolocation and Wait for It traits were good, but then you look at some other examples, like the Trencher. It has traits for lower spread, higher spread, two shots before pumps, and bleeding. Boring! The two shot traits was a good start, but I could think of more interesting traits, like increased knockback to potentially ragdoll people away/shove Juliana far back, or for the machine gun, shrapnel rounds that burst at their point of impact for small amounts of damage and stagger on enemies nearby.

Also, the Gas trait should not exist, it's totally unbalanced, especially for PvP. The explosion + DoT ends up meaning that you are very likely to be killed immediately or barely survive from the explosion then quickly die from the Dot that lasts too long, with the only way to live being pure coincidence of where you are on the map relative to health supplies.

[thorin.hannahs]

Yeah some traits are perplexing, Inferno just doesn't seem to create clouds big enough or that last long enough to create a fun dynamic of pseudo grenade launcher. You could always just use it as a "hope they blow themselves up" weapon but that isn't satisfying. Just go in with More Bang on a Rapier.

The SB traits are like that too, most just enhance what is already there not really changing up how you might implement the weapon.

Underwhelming are the full auto weapon perks and the full auto weapons themselves I find it difficult to pick them because of how they feel. Maybe shrapnel rounds like you said or ricochet rounds (played out I know).

As far as gas goes it does seem wonky compared to everything else. I thought Inferno might be replaced with oil from rifle and ignite from buckshot so you could create hazardous areas or inflict DoTs without the huge explosion or make sticky ignitable surfaces so it feels more like a trap gun.

Another small thing that bothered me was silenced weapons not having silencers, just nit picking but annoying.

[Watermelons]

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

Another small thing that bothered me was silenced weapons not having silencers, just nit picking but annoying.

I felt the same, as well as with putting on the speed loader trinket and instead of having a sped up reload animation, the gun is simply put down under the camera, skipping the animation altogether.

[Jack Ketch]

Quickfire trinket on the shotgun with Snare is my go-to Julianna killer.

But I probably got more mileage out of the "silenced" SMG. That & Nexus got me through a lot of crowded spots.

It's fun to play with, but for my sneaky playstyle the nailgun-that-explodes is ridiculous. It's a STEALTH WEAPON and now it's REALLY LOUD?

[Some]

I 1 shot literally every mob in the game including juliana and all visionaries. With gun or machete game is extremely trivial waste of time.

[thorin.hannahs]

Originally posted by Jack Ketch:

Quickfire trinket on the shotgun with Snare is my go-to Julianna killer.

But I probably got more mileage out of the "silenced" SMG. That & Nexus got me through a lot of crowded spots.

It's fun to play with, but for my sneaky playstyle the nailgun-that-explodes is ridiculous. It's a STEALTH WEAPON and now it's REALLY LOUD?

At least there is some variation there.

[thorin.hannahs]

Originally posted by Some:

I 1 shot literally every mob in the game including juliana and all visionaries. With gun or machete game is extremely trivial waste of time.

Cool.

[Quillithe]

I play with controller since it's more comfortable even though it makes me aim worse, so I enjoyed some of the guns better for bodyshots.

Sniper with chargeup kills enemies on body shots

Fourpounder with delayed shots does too, and it's interesting to get the hang of.

Spiker with echolocation was pretty great, wait for it always felt worse than just using a gun since it's noisy anyway (though it was fun, so I used it anyway).

The Verso was fun, but it always felt like I was using dual pistols for the variety rather than actually because it was worth it.

Both silenced weapons are of course great, silenced tribunal felt more stylish once I found it but I tried to avoid it after a bit because it was too effective (stealth headshots on everyone got old).

I played single player so Julianna wasn't a big deal though, that makes a difference.

[thorin.hannahs]

Originally posted by Quillithe:

I play with controller since it's more comfortable even though it makes me aim worse, so I enjoyed some of the guns better for bodyshots.

Sniper with chargeup kills enemies on body shots

Fourpounder with delayed shots does too, and it's interesting to get the hang of.

Spiker with echolocation was pretty great, wait for it always felt worse than just using a gun since it's noisy anyway (though it was fun, so I used it anyway).

The Verso was fun, but it always felt like I was using dual pistols for the variety rather than actually because it was worth it.

Both silenced weapons are of course great, silenced tribunal felt more stylish once I found it but I tried to avoid it after a bit because it was too effective (stealth headshots on everyone got old).

I played single player so Julianna wasn't a big deal though, that makes a difference.

Yeah Verso was fun but I always used it for the burst smg couldn't bring myself to dual wield, ever. I figured that about coiled strike trait. Silenced is just too powerful. My favorite so far is Heritage with Dualist and Big Box, rifle someone down and then charge in with buckshot or Buckshot sneakily and then rifle everyone down. Silver bullet is fun to sort of challenge yourself with use it as often as possible without running out of ammo.

[Kurobon]

machine guns are the worst weapons in the game, and the strelak/frank's weapon are the worst legendaries in the game. This gun is just a favorite because it's accurate and versatile.

The most broken PVE weapon is the silenced Limp (sucks for PVP). Just one, you don't need to dual wield because you can just use nexus in the other hand and kill everything with one clip. Add a purple lightning strike and, maybe Big Box for more bullets. You don't even need more accuracy. Limp is very accurate at long range, the only weakness is being low dmg at long distances, which you fix with Lightning Strike.

Silenced Limp + Lightning Strike and nexus can head-shot one shot everything at middle range, since now the gun does the maximum close quarter dmg at middle/long range. While silenced. Add the personal trinket that allows you to move without making noise and you don't even have to crouch or walk anymore for stealth/silence.

PVP will depend on the stage and whatever Juliana is running, but mostly high damage stacking while you sponge dmg. If you use a tagging sniper/magnum on Juliana, you can always reset and hunt her easily. Lot of things works in PVP, some loadouts are meta, but a lot of things just work.

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by Kurobon:

machine guns are the worst weapons in the game, and the strelak/frank's weapon are the worst legendaries in the game.

Yeah I couldn't figure out when I'd prefer the Pepperbox to the 50/50. It's worse close up and seemed to recoil too much to be worth the hassle at longer range AND it uses the small bullets.

It seemed pretty useful to not take two guns with the same ammo - you don't run out as easy and most overlapping guns weren't worth the trouble.


Verso I used, but not really because it was any better than the LIMP or clicking a few times with the tribunal. I just used it to dual wield for fun which was normally too annoying to set up since it takes 2/3 of your loadout and doesn't offer any benefits (I guess you can take two LIMP and run out of bullets instantly, or two pistols and...click both fingers? You miss too much extra).

EDIT: Ugh, Frank's weapon was a hassle to start reloading at the right time and even then you run out of bullets so fast with continuous fire anyway, just taking a speedloader is better.

[thorin.hannahs]

Originally posted by Kurobon:

machine guns are the worst weapons in the game, and the strelak/frank's weapon are the worst legendaries in the game. This gun is just a favorite because it's accurate and versatile.

The most broken PVE weapon is the silenced Limp (sucks for PVP). Just one, you don't need to dual wield because you can just use nexus in the other hand and kill everything with one clip. Add a purple lightning strike and, maybe Big Box for more bullets. You don't even need more accuracy. Limp is very accurate at long range, the only weakness is being low dmg at long distances, which you fix with Lightning Strike.

Silenced Limp + Lightning Strike and nexus can head-shot one shot everything at middle range, since now the gun does the maximum close quarter dmg at middle/long range. While silenced. Add the personal trinket that allows you to move without making noise and you don't even have to crouch or walk anymore for stealth/silence.

PVP will depend on the stage and whatever Juliana is running, but mostly high damage stacking while you sponge dmg. If you use a tagging sniper/magnum on Juliana, you can always reset and hunt her easily. Lot of things works in PVP, some loadouts are meta, but a lot of things just work.

Agreed machine guns just don't feel great, too bad you only ever felt the want to take the silenced limp in PVE. I left it behind because I knew it was broken. More Bang on a Rapier with Big Box and Speed Loader could make PVP fun if you can keep it mid range.

[Kurobon]

I didn't say I only needed to take that gun. I just say it's busted in PVE. My favorite is the sniper.

[Quillithe]

I think he meant to say you (people) didn't want it for PVP where it's not good, not that you (personally) never wanted another gun for PVE

[Kurobon]

Yes, you're right.