The ending

[Arkardu]

Pretty... Anticlimactic?

[Whesker]

I agree. The journey through the environment makes me think the end is going to lead to some sinister/epic revelation. But the ending(s) just feel tacked on. Makes me wonder if Arkane had bigger plans but Bethesda pushed the release? Hard to say.

[Commander Hitman2b]

Originally posted by Wheskerskie:

I agree. The journey through the environment makes me think the end is going to lead to some sinister/epic revelation. But the ending(s) just feel tacked on. Makes me wonder if Arkane had bigger plans but Bethesda pushed the release? Hard to say.

i mean you wouldn't know right away the repercution since you just got out of the loop it does mean the will be another game

[Jakkauli]

What confused me is how they pretty much started the ending like "sit down, I'm gonna explain everything" - then they skip that part and explain nothing.

It's not even the type of story that gains anything by leaving things open to intepretation

[eRe4s3r]

Well when you get nitpicky one can also flat out say that 50% of the game is missing. Where is the part after we destroy the loop showing us the results of all of our actions up to that point, where is the possibility for alternate endings by NOT killing the visionaires? To give us a proper ending and giving us feedback on what we did or didn't do, and how we played through the loop?

I have never played an Arkane game where the ending felt so pointless, easy, and soulless .. and I felt like I only played the tutorial of the game when it was already over and showing me the credits..

I am replaying Prey and even if you know where to go and what to do you can still discover new things even on the 5th replay. This is such a drastic difference that I wonder if this was even the same studio?

[Kurobon]

Originally posted by eRe4s3r:

Well when you get nitpicky one can also flat out say that 50% of the game is missing. Where is the part after we destroy the loop showing us the results of all of our actions up to that point, where is the possibility for alternate endings by NOT killing the visionaires? To give us a proper ending and giving us feedback on what we did or didn't do, and how we played through the loop?

I have never played an Arkane game where the ending felt so pointless, easy, and soulless .. and I felt like I only played the tutorial of the game when it was already over and showing me the credits..

I am replaying Prey and even if you know where to go and what to do you can still discover new things even on the 5th replay. This is such a drastic difference that I wonder if this was even the same studio?

There's a whole lot to discover in DL. Have you ever wondered who breaks the electric panel near RAZ?

In Prey, you can trivialize and break the game within 15 minutes of gameplay using save-scum and the GLOO to craft neuromods, and then the game asks you to spend 80 hours blazing thru it and get snippets of interactions via emails and the occasional NPC you encounter. If you can't see how much of an improvement DL is in this regard, I don't know what to tell you.

Deathloop is also unbalanced, but at no point the game tells you "here, your character is OP now go and get 5 endings in 80 hours across multiple save files in around 16 huge areas; and btw no real fast travel until you're halfway there."

DL took what was good about the Prey experience and refined it. DL is more concise, less pretentious and occurs in 4 well designed main areas in which you can do all your character /storyline interactions within one save file. The game is MUCH better for it. Basically what made Prey narrative good, in a concise package. Not to mention story is better, VA is better, combat is better. And the game is literally all about character interactions that are not diluted like in Prey.

Additionally, the game will be as hard as the online Julianna who invade you, so DL if we're honest, DL can be really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard. And if you do want to get the full experience, you're FORCED to play stealth loadouts and disregard the truly OP PvE loadouts.

BTW, I love Pey. It's simply not better than DL.

[mhofever]

Yea, tbh I was theorising on what was happening with the loop on the island, maybe the ending will explain that. My first theory was that an apocalypse hit Earth and the only way to stop/prevent it from utterly destroying humanity, this one island with some "brilliant" minds (some not so much) were frozen in a time loop by the military as a last ditch effort to fix it (by the time the loop happens, said Earth has utterly collapsed or at least civlisation had).

I think because Prey's ending kind of got my hopes up for that, either way still enjoyed DL, it was really great to play an Arkane game again after a while, now Im just gonna go back and solve some secrets and mysteries left around

[Dirge]

Originally posted by Kurobon:

Originally posted by eRe4s3r:

Well when you get nitpicky one can also flat out say that 50% of the game is missing. Where is the part after we destroy the loop showing us the results of all of our actions up to that point, where is the possibility for alternate endings by NOT killing the visionaires? To give us a proper ending and giving us feedback on what we did or didn't do, and how we played through the loop?

I have never played an Arkane game where the ending felt so pointless, easy, and soulless .. and I felt like I only played the tutorial of the game when it was already over and showing me the credits..

I am replaying Prey and even if you know where to go and what to do you can still discover new things even on the 5th replay. This is such a drastic difference that I wonder if this was even the same studio?

There's a whole lot to discover in DL. Have you ever wondered who breaks the electric panel near RAZ?

In Prey, you can trivialize and break the game within 15 minutes of gameplay using save-scum and the GLOO to craft neuromods, and then the game asks you to spend 80 hours blazing thru it and get snippets of interactions via emails and the occasional NPC you encounter. If you can't see how much of an improvement DL is in this regard, I don't know what to tell you.

Deathloop is also unbalanced, but at no point the game tells you "here, your character is OP now go and get 5 endings in 80 hours across multiple save files in around 16 huge areas; and btw no real fast travel until you're halfway there."

DL took what was good about the Prey experience and refined it. DL is more concise, less pretentious and occurs in 4 well designed main areas in which you can do all your character /storyline interactions within one save file. The game is MUCH better for it. Basically what made Prey narrative good, in a concise package. Not to mention story is better, VA is better, combat is better. And the game is literally all about character interactions that are not diluted like in Prey.

Additionally, the game will be as hard as the online Julianna who invade you, so DL if we're honest, DL can be really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard. And if you do want to get the full experience, you're FORCED to play stealth loadouts and disregard the truly OP PvE loadouts.

BTW, I love Pey. It's simply not better than DL.

Hard disagree with this post. To venture into spoiler territory:



Dozens of story elements serve an unimportant role relative to the core plot. Hell, the revelation that Juliana is Colt's daughter is referenced in one of the endings with a "daddy-daughter" relationship joke. But the player wouldn't know this unless they'd gone out of their way to find a single letter in Karl's Bay detailing who Lila was to Colt. One of the "Other Colts" even mentions Lila by name - I'll tell you up front that I had no clue who she was by that point in the game, and that's the only time some random "Other Colt" mentions this character by name. No offense, but THAT is bad writing and story conveyance in a game.

The Anomaly is never properly explained. The RAK is never properly explained. The ability to remember things across loops is never properly explained. The ending is tacked on and weak. The Slabs are never properly explained. I really don't know how someone could look at the way this game's story was told and not see it as a structural and thematic disappointment. It's unfortunate, too, because Arkane has done a great job otherwise with their other titles. But this one is a hard miss.

Also, in regards to difficulty - Arkane clearly wanted the player to build their own unique Colt as they played through the game, right? All the slabs, trinkets, weapons, etc. that you can choose let you create your own unique gameplay experience. If a player has to fundamentally modify their playstyle and negate certain items and trinkets in order to get "the true experience," as you say, then the game has failed to create a compelling sense of balance. Furthermore, their "adaptive difficulty" system was not capable of handling the variety of gameplay styles and modes present in the game.

In response to your criticism of breaking Prey by abusing GLOO and neuromods - there's no reason to play stealthy in Deathloop when you can double-jump, shift, and silently run past braindead AI who, even 20 hours into the game, had not improved by any meaningful amount, despite the "adaptiveness" of the difficulty. At least Prey made the player feel their was a consequence to becoming too "alien" by using neuromods, whereas DL's slabs literally have no effect on the player outside of giving you cool, unexplained powers.



I just don't know how someone who has played all of Arkane's previous titles can look at Deathloop and consider it a "good" game when held against the standards of Prey and Dishonored. It's fun, sure, but good? I wouldn't call it that. Definitely not worth full price.

[Ichmag 🔑🌙]

I didnt mind the ending. I dont think it always needs a big reveal in the end. You got what you worked for and what you're gonna get is purely up for speculation. It may be a bit lazy, but I honestly think it was one of the best ways to cut it up without making a big fuss out of a done game.

[Kurobon]

Originally posted by Dirge:

Originally posted by Kurobon:

There's a whole lot to discover in DL. Have you ever wondered who breaks the electric panel near RAZ?

In Prey, you can trivialize and break the game within 15 minutes of gameplay using save-scum and the GLOO to craft neuromods, and then the game asks you to spend 80 hours blazing thru it and get snippets of interactions via emails and the occasional NPC you encounter. If you can't see how much of an improvement DL is in this regard, I don't know what to tell you.

Deathloop is also unbalanced, but at no point the game tells you "here, your character is OP now go and get 5 endings in 80 hours across multiple save files in around 16 huge areas; and btw no real fast travel until you're halfway there."

DL took what was good about the Prey experience and refined it. DL is more concise, less pretentious and occurs in 4 well designed main areas in which you can do all your character /storyline interactions within one save file. The game is MUCH better for it. Basically what made Prey narrative good, in a concise package. Not to mention story is better, VA is better, combat is better. And the game is literally all about character interactions that are not diluted like in Prey.

Additionally, the game will be as hard as the online Julianna who invade you, so DL if we're honest, DL can be really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard. And if you do want to get the full experience, you're FORCED to play stealth loadouts and disregard the truly OP PvE loadouts.

BTW, I love Pey. It's simply not better than DL.

Hard disagree with this post. To venture into spoiler territory:



Dozens of story elements serve an unimportant role relative to the core plot. Hell, the revelation that Juliana is Colt's daughter is referenced in one of the endings with a "daddy-daughter" relationship joke. But the player wouldn't know this unless they'd gone out of their way to find a single letter in Karl's Bay detailing who Lila was to Colt. One of the "Other Colts" even mentions Lila by name - I'll tell you up front that I had no clue who she was by that point in the game, and that's the only time some random "Other Colt" mentions this character by name. No offense, but THAT is bad writing and story conveyance in a game.

The Anomaly is never properly explained. The RAK is never properly explained. The ability to remember things across loops is never properly explained. The ending is tacked on and weak. The Slabs are never properly explained. I really don't know how someone could look at the way this game's story was told and not see it as a structural and thematic disappointment. It's unfortunate, too, because Arkane has done a great job otherwise with their other titles. But this one is a hard miss.

Also, in regards to difficulty - Arkane clearly wanted the player to build their own unique Colt as they played through the game, right? All the slabs, trinkets, weapons, etc. that you can choose let you create your own unique gameplay experience. If a player has to fundamentally modify their playstyle and negate certain items and trinkets in order to get "the true experience," as you say, then the game has failed to create a compelling sense of balance. Furthermore, their "adaptive difficulty" system was not capable of handling the variety of gameplay styles and modes present in the game.

In response to your criticism of breaking Prey by abusing GLOO and neuromods - there's no reason to play stealthy in Deathloop when you can double-jump, shift, and silently run past braindead AI who, even 20 hours into the game, had not improved by any meaningful amount, despite the "adaptiveness" of the difficulty. At least Prey made the player feel their was a consequence to becoming too "alien" by using neuromods, whereas DL's slabs literally have no effect on the player outside of giving you cool, unexplained powers.



I just don't know how someone who has played all of Arkane's previous titles can look at Deathloop and consider it a "good" game when held against the standards of Prey and Dishonored. It's fun, sure, but good? I wouldn't call it that. Definitely not worth full price.

You're not defending Prey's dumb gameplay criticism, and I explained how DL took Prey's strenghts and weaknesses and improved upon them. And the fact still is that you can be as OP as you want and if you have your connection open, you will die a lot. Adaptive difficult, even what you feel is a faulty one, is much better than having no difficulty at all and being able to ♥♥♥♥ the strongest aliens in the game within 15 minutes in Prey. It's still much more challenging than Prey.

Regarding storyline: I get it, you don't like DL story. In fact, it seems you got so immersed in DL that you're disappointed by the outcome or lack thereof. Fact is: your expectations are a bit high, or rather, too low.

Remember, these are videogames. Even you consider Prey and Dishonored stories better than DL, you need to recognize those are trash tier tropey storylines anbout revenge porn and "space corporation bad"/ All of these games stories are appropriate for games, so it would be a matter of preference. But debating that Prey story is better than DL, and use that as proof of Prey being the better game... is like debating which Resident Evil game is better using storyline as the main criteria.

DL embraces the silliness and drop the pretenses and tells an interesting story with cool characters in an island full of stupidity. And also respect's players time. Who the ♥♥♥♥ wants to grind 50 hours and multiple save files to see what some randos in spacesuit that you mostly know via email has to say or do? Might as well watch a nice movie or read a nice book at that point.

DL is the better game and I hope they Arkane improving their game storytelling.

[eRe4s3r]

Originally posted by Kurobon:

Originally posted by eRe4s3r:

Well when you get nitpicky one can also flat out say that 50% of the game is missing. Where is the part after we destroy the loop showing us the results of all of our actions up to that point, where is the possibility for alternate endings by NOT killing the visionaires? To give us a proper ending and giving us feedback on what we did or didn't do, and how we played through the loop?

I have never played an Arkane game where the ending felt so pointless, easy, and soulless .. and I felt like I only played the tutorial of the game when it was already over and showing me the credits..

I am replaying Prey and even if you know where to go and what to do you can still discover new things even on the 5th replay. This is such a drastic difference that I wonder if this was even the same studio?

There's a whole lot to discover in DL. Have you ever wondered who breaks the electric panel near RAZ?

In Prey, you can trivialize and break the game within 15 minutes of gameplay using save-scum and the GLOO to craft neuromods, and then the game asks you to spend 80 hours blazing thru it and get snippets of interactions via emails and the occasional NPC you encounter. If you can't see how much of an improvement DL is in this regard, I don't know what to tell you.

Deathloop is also unbalanced, but at no point the game tells you "here, your character is OP now go and get 5 endings in 80 hours across multiple save files in around 16 huge areas; and btw no real fast travel until you're halfway there."

DL took what was good about the Prey experience and refined it. DL is more concise, less pretentious and occurs in 4 well designed main areas in which you can do all your character /storyline interactions within one save file. The game is MUCH better for it. Basically what made Prey narrative good, in a concise package. Not to mention story is better, VA is better, combat is better. And the game is literally all about character interactions that are not diluted like in Prey.

Additionally, the game will be as hard as the online Julianna who invade you, so DL if we're honest, DL can be really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard. And if you do want to get the full experience, you're FORCED to play stealth loadouts and disregard the truly OP PvE loadouts.

BTW, I love Pey. It's simply not better than DL.

The difference between Deathloop optional secrets and Prey/Dishonored optional secrets is however pretty fundamental. In Prey or Dishonored you can opt for secrets to improve your chances and get different endings. Whether you save all people, whether you help the big named ones, go out of your way to bring a cargo container back, find the info dump on the aliens, or kill them all, whether you let the cook live or not. Everything always had consequences in Arkane games. I know of not a single Arkane game where the ending flat out gives zero cents about anything you did. In Dishonored chaos rating, doing optional requests that actually affect story events in later missions, in Prey humanity vs alien vs no neuromods, vs killing all, vs saving all. All of it was acknowledged by the game at the end. In a sense, it was the developers acknowledging what you did with your time.

You have a point that Deathloop really is unique and fun.. the first time because it was, it was even a blast to play. But once you start to look for complexity and depth beyond the first loop completion it becomes shallow and uninteresting beacause nothing in any part that is not Karls bay morning, Complex mid-day, Fristad evening, Updaam night (in that order) matters in the ending sequence and this sequence is fixed. The enemies are always in the same place, say the same things and do the same things and unless you miss 99% of your shots AI difficulty is maxed out anyway. So you are always absolutely dead-locked with zero variance when you go for the ending which locks you into a working loadout (shift, always SHIFT...). Shift is even fun but to me it is very boring to know that this ending sequence is fixed. I have no reason to replay this. The exploring of different paths and of the visonairies literally ends when you "lock" the end game loop.

It would have been downright inspiring to give us the option to side with 1 of the visionaires in the post loop game with the help of the robot to explore each one of them properly in a "final" day.

Anyhow to be clear, I don't hate the game. I liked the time I spent in it. But what does it say that I have been craving replaying Prey after finishing Deathloop..... because I want to play as an alien mimic that poses as a coffee cup while in space drifting by telepaths and big scary things rather than replaying the literally same sequence to see the slightly different endings. Once you memorized the sequence it is also possible to "replay" the game and finish it in less than 2 hours. Without speedrun strats ;p

Anyhow, don't wanna write walls of text about the ending or gameplay differences between games but I just wish the ending had more meat to it and played more with the loop concept. As it is, I really feel like half the game is missing. There is no conclusion to anything. NewGame+ literally drops you into a fixed loop where you can't even change anything and if you do, you bork yourself out of the ending completely. What kind of NewGame+ is that?

[reck_o]

Originally posted by Kurobon:

Originally posted by Dirge:

Hard disagree with this post. To venture into spoiler territory:



Dozens of story elements serve an unimportant role relative to the core plot. Hell, the revelation that Juliana is Colt's daughter is referenced in one of the endings with a "daddy-daughter" relationship joke. But the player wouldn't know this unless they'd gone out of their way to find a single letter in Karl's Bay detailing who Lila was to Colt. One of the "Other Colts" even mentions Lila by name - I'll tell you up front that I had no clue who she was by that point in the game, and that's the only time some random "Other Colt" mentions this character by name. No offense, but THAT is bad writing and story conveyance in a game.

The Anomaly is never properly explained. The RAK is never properly explained. The ability to remember things across loops is never properly explained. The ending is tacked on and weak. The Slabs are never properly explained. I really don't know how someone could look at the way this game's story was told and not see it as a structural and thematic disappointment. It's unfortunate, too, because Arkane has done a great job otherwise with their other titles. But this one is a hard miss.

Also, in regards to difficulty - Arkane clearly wanted the player to build their own unique Colt as they played through the game, right? All the slabs, trinkets, weapons, etc. that you can choose let you create your own unique gameplay experience. If a player has to fundamentally modify their playstyle and negate certain items and trinkets in order to get "the true experience," as you say, then the game has failed to create a compelling sense of balance. Furthermore, their "adaptive difficulty" system was not capable of handling the variety of gameplay styles and modes present in the game.

In response to your criticism of breaking Prey by abusing GLOO and neuromods - there's no reason to play stealthy in Deathloop when you can double-jump, shift, and silently run past braindead AI who, even 20 hours into the game, had not improved by any meaningful amount, despite the "adaptiveness" of the difficulty. At least Prey made the player feel their was a consequence to becoming too "alien" by using neuromods, whereas DL's slabs literally have no effect on the player outside of giving you cool, unexplained powers.



I just don't know how someone who has played all of Arkane's previous titles can look at Deathloop and consider it a "good" game when held against the standards of Prey and Dishonored. It's fun, sure, but good? I wouldn't call it that. Definitely not worth full price.

You're not defending Prey's dumb gameplay criticism, and I explained how DL took Prey's strenghts and weaknesses and improved upon them. And the fact still is that you can be as OP as you want and if you have your connection open, you will die a lot. Adaptive difficult, even what you feel is a faulty one, is much better than having no difficulty at all and being able to ♥♥♥♥ the strongest aliens in the game within 15 minutes in Prey. It's still much more challenging than Prey.

Regarding storyline: I get it, you don't like DL story. In fact, it seems you got so immersed in DL that you're disappointed by the outcome or lack thereof. Fact is: your expectations are a bit high, or rather, too low.

Remember, these are videogames. Even you consider Prey and Dishonored stories better than DL, you need to recognize those are trash tier tropey storylines anbout revenge porn and "space corporation bad"/ All of these games stories are appropriate for games, so it would be a matter of preference. But debating that Prey story is better than DL, and use that as proof of Prey being the better game... is like debating which Resident Evil game is better using storyline as the main criteria.

DL embraces the silliness and drop the pretenses and tells an interesting story with cool characters in an island full of stupidity. And also respect's players time. Who the ♥♥♥♥ wants to grind 50 hours and multiple save files to see what some randos in spacesuit that you mostly know via email has to say or do? Might as well watch a nice movie or read a nice book at that point.

DL is the better game and I hope they Arkane improving their game storytelling.

Prey is in no world 50-80 hours long. I don't know where you get that from.
I as well hardly diagree with everything you had to say about Prey in comparison to Deathloop. Deathloop is too silly, and your actions have no impact to the story or the world whatsoever, in contrast to Prey. Prey is much more sinister, has interesting ideas and concepts like Transhumanism and what defines a human being. And in contrast to Deathloop, the story has an actual ending, with most questions answered. To each his own I guess, but I am actually baffled how anyone could find the story in Deathloop more interesting (especially considering the ending, the premise itself is intriguing) than Prey's.

[Delta]

The endgame in general was super disappointing. I was hoping the party on day 4 would get additional security once they realise there are three Visionaries there and four are already dead (especially as the game was so easy up to that point) but it's the same mission you've done half a dozen times before and then the game just ends. No interesting last level to test the skills you've been honing all game, no new location to explore or climactic confrontation with Julianna Prime, just a brief cutscene that explains nothing and doesn't recontextualise the game in any way.

The final decision isn't interesting at all, just "complete that one goal you've been pursuing for the whole game because there were zero twists or don't". IMO a better ending choice would be if it was revealed everyone who dies on the final day will stay dead unless they have the reprise slab (maybe Julianna found out the last time the loop happened all they found was corpses, hence part of her reason for killing Colt is to keep herself alive), so you have to choose whether to keep it or give it to Julianna. If Colt sacrificed himself to save her, maybe because Lila would have wanted it, Julianna could have used Masquerade to assume Lila's appearance and give her one last look at her before he died.

In the end the game doesn't really have a story, just a bunch of lore. We learn about the history of Colt, Julianna and the island, but once the game starts the world is completely static and there are zero twists or changes to our goals.

Also the Dishonored connection makes less sense the more I think about it. Dishonored 2 had windmill-powered laser walls that can tell friend from foe and clockwork mansions hundreds of years ago so why does the game's technology look the same as ours? Presumably the whales went extinct at some point so no more whale oil but they clearly have other power sources now.

[thee.alemaozinho]

Originally posted by Kurobon:

...

DL embraces the silliness and drop the pretenses and tells an interesting story with cool characters in an island full of stupidity. And also respect's players time. Who the ♥♥♥♥ wants to grind 50 hours and multiple save files to see what some randos in spacesuit that you mostly know via email has to say or do? Might as well watch a nice movie or read a nice book at that point.

DL is the better game and I hope they Arkane improving their game storytelling.

You must be joking. Interesting story? Where is there an interesting story? Cool characters? Not even remotely, not on this island. My eyes even hurt from all the rolling I had to do every time Cole and Juliana had their dialogues.

Thx mate, that gave me a good laugh.

[Delta]

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

You must be joking. Interesting story? Where is there an interesting story? Cool characters? Not even remotely, not on this island. My eyes even hurt from all the rolling I had to do every time Cole and Juliana had their dialogues.

Thx mate, that gave me a good laugh. [/quote]

Colt and Julianna are fleshed out and have engaging dialogue (you may not agree but I've seen plenty of people talking about how their characterisation is one of the highlights) but I agree everyone else is a one-dimensional ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, the worldbuilding is way weaker than Dishonored or Prey and there's no real central narrative.

Deathloop overall is a huge step backwards over Arkane's previous work (it's actually a different studio to the one that made prey, but the same studio made Dishonored 2 which is better in practically every respect).

[reck_o]

Originally posted by Delta:

Originally posted by thee.alemaozinho:

You must be joking. Interesting story? Where is there an interesting story? Cool characters? Not even remotely, not on this island. My eyes even hurt from all the rolling I had to do every time Cole and Juliana had their dialogues.

Thx mate, that gave me a good laugh.

Colt and Julianna are fleshed out and have engaging dialogue (you may not agree but I've seen plenty of people talking about how their characterisation is one of the highlights) but I agree everyone else is a one-dimensional ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, the worldbuilding is way weaker than Dishonored or Prey and there's no real central narrative.

Deathloop overall is a huge step backwards over Arkane's previous work (it's actually a different studio to the one that made prey, but the same studio made Dishonored 2 which is better in practically every respect). [/quote]

Colt and Julianna might have well conceptualized characters, but for me the issue was the delivery of the dialogue. It feels like they hired Marvels writers for all the dialogue in Deathloop. Now, some might like that but I find the dialogue in recent Marvel movies to be awful and overly silly with unfunny one liners littered all over.