Rudder control on the ground when landing/taking off

[Dr. Feelgood]

I have been using MSFS2020 since Alpha and i bought it on the Premium Delux Edition on Launch, but because of having Hardware issues with my X56, I have been away for a good long while, because it toke a long time getting things sorted with Stock issues at Logitech, so I was hopping this issue I'm having had been fixed.

My issue is when on the ground and taxing and while in the air the rudder work as i would expect, but when on the runway adding full power and the plane hits about 40knots it gets uncontrollable and is impossible to keep on the center line or even the runway for that matter, the same thing happens when touching down on the runway. Does anyone know why this is happening?

This problem is both happening on the yaw of my X56 Stick and my Thrust master pedals. I have only tried GA Planes, because I don't like Jets.

This kinda makes MSFS2020 unplayable for me, because my favorite thing is landing and taking of :(

PS: I have tried searching for this problem here on Steam

[Sandhill]

It may be that your rudder authority is, as many have complained, excessive. You wouldn't so much notice that in taxi if your aircraft steers with a nose wheel. In air you might just be compensating for it with smaller inputs, and rudder is not so critical while flying. As you get fast on the runway, though, the excessive rudder authority might be sending you swerving... I've certainly noticed that tendency. See the suggestions in this thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1250410/discussions/6/2949250308642742107/
If you currently struggle with one of the standard (editable) aircraft, try their suggestion and see if it fixes your problem. If so, you can at least fix the other standard aircraft and hope that Asobo makes them all right. Good luck

[Commodore]

There's a series of effects that cause your aircraft to turn left on the ground and also rotate left in the air. This effect is accentuated when the propeller is going at full power while the aircraft is going at slow speeds.

When taking off, make sure to apply power smoothly, while simultaneously applying right rudder. Since there's no force feedback in the sim, it's a bit difficult, but with practice you'll get better at managing the sudden yaw to the left. Applying power smoothly avoids jerking to the left. As you speed up on the runway, you'll need to apply less and less rudder. Even after lifting off the runway, you'll still need to use rudder. Don't look at your instruments, look outside at the runway to see if you are going sideways. Once you've reached your climb speed, you should be fine and don't really need to bother with rudder mid-flight.

For landing, make sure that before touching down, you are at the correct landing speed. For example, for a C172, it's full flaps and 60 knots. Completely pull out the throttle to idle before flaring, and wait until the plane settles by itself. It will feel like you're floating above the runway, that's normal, just wait and don't push the nose down. At such a low speed, you'll land smoothly and shouldn't have issue with rudders. The exception are strong crosswinds, that force you to crab on the approach and then use the rudders to align yourself before touchdown. In such a situation, it's a matter of skills really.

Lastly, I do not have the thrustmaster pedals, but I have the logitech ones and by default they are very sensitive, so it can help to reduce the sensitivity.

[Dr. Feelgood]

Well i can see now that alot of people is having the same problem, and I was just watching Kiwi Mace on YouTube and he is having the same problem as I'm having in GA Planes.

I have tried to fiddl around with the controllers sensitivity settings. I can limit the input and out put, fx i can do so that i won't go over 50% input, but then the turning circle of the Plane becomes much greater and it is not possible to Taxi, but the same problem still exists. When accelerating down the Runway I'm using the minimum input on the pedals that is possible to get a reaction from the plane, but the reaction is that the plane turns sharply with minimum input on the controller.

Commodore why are you explaining how flight dynamics works? I know how they work, but they are not working in MSFS2020 as they should. They working just fine in X-Plane 10, X-Plane 11, FSX and FS 2000, FS 2002, FS 2004 and P3D V1 through V5. So what you are telling me is that all these Sims have got i wrong and I'm crazy?

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by Dr. Feelgood:

I have tried to fiddl around with the controllers sensitivity settings. I can limit the input and out put, fx i can do so that i won't go over 50% input, but then the turning circle of the Plane becomes much greater and it is not possible to Taxi, but the same problem still exists. When accelerating down the Runway I'm using the minimum input on the pedals that is possible to get a reaction from the plane, but the reaction is that the plane turns sharply with minimum input on the controller.

Commodore why are you explaining how flight dynamics works? I know how they work, but they are not working in MSFS2020 as they should. They working just fine in X-Plane 10, X-Plane 11, FSX and FS 2000, FS 2002, FS 2004 and P3D V1 through V5. So what you are telling me is that all these Sims have got i wrong and I'm crazy?

I have not tried the fix, I just fly through it, but the idea, I think, is not to alter your rudder input sensitivity or end points, but rather adjust, for lack of a better analogy, the size of the rudder.
I think what is happening is that as your rudder gains aerodynamic authority (with speed) it becomes too powerful, and so any little change in rudder deflection results in an exaggerated reaction from the plane.
At lower speeds the steering from the wheel predominates, but at a point the rudder, which is too powerful, takes over. That seems to be why simply reducing the saturation, so that the wheel does not turn as far, is not such a help as in low speed taxi you need that wheel deflection to steer.
Again, haven't tried it, but adjusting the size of the rudder in flight_model.cfg might help.

rudder_effectiveness = 1 <<<<<<change to a value below 1 (0.6 works well with 172)
sounds like a sure bet to try

rudder_maxangle_scalar = 0.75
I've no clue what that does, but might just limit saturation, costs nada to try though...

And yes, I think that the factors like torque and precession that rotate a prop plane have nothing to do with what you are trying to solve.

[★Macman★]

I'm interested to know why it would be the same for Landing as it is for Takeoff when there is no P Factor having gone to Idle. Anyone?

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by Macman:

I'm interested to know why it would be the same for Landing as it is for Takeoff when there is no P Factor having gone to Idle. Anyone?

Because as I understand the situation this has nothing whatsoever to do with P Factor, its all about excess rudder authority.
Edit:
I did, out of curiosity, try reducing the rudder_effectivenss on the 152 from the default 1 to 0.2 with no ill effect on the low speed taxi turning circle but with what seems like an improvement (reduction)in rudder authority. That's hardly a difficult aircraft to keep on the center line in the first place, so I'll look to see what Standard planes seem more troubled. As said above, I tend to just fly them and am not so bothered by the problem, but I think that I do know of what the OP posts.
Reedit
Tried the same routine on the Bonanza, turned rudder_effectiveness down to 0.2, and it seemed that the high speed taxi was noticeably improved with no negative effect on the low speed turning radius. The Bonanza has impressed me as a bit more difficult in high speed taxi, so perhaps that is a good result.
Both the 152 and Bonanza fly better for me with the change, so for me its worth it just for that.
There's only about eight million things you can adjust in flight_model.cfg, I only played with that parameter as it was called out by Ziggy Stardust in the thread I linked above. Perhaps others would give better results. Of course I'd expect that YMMV depending on the curves and saturations you have set in Options/Controls.

[★Macman★]

There is a RUDDER setting in CUSTOMIZATION under the Plane Selection. It might stay per Plane or just be a global setting which would be odd.
The OP said it handles the same when Landing Idle to Takeoff which it should not do. P Factor will only happen on Takeoff due to engine torque.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by Macman:

The OP said it handles the same when Landing Idle to Takeoff which it should not do. P Factor will only happen on Takeoff due to engine torque.

I missed him saying that, I just read him saying that yaw on high speed taxi was difficult, whether on takeoff or landing.

[★Macman★]

Originally posted by Dr. Feelgood:

My issue is when on the ground and taxing and while in the air the rudder work as i would expect, but when on the runway adding full power and the plane hits about 40knots it gets uncontrollable and is impossible to keep on the center line or even the runway for that matter, the same thing happens when touching down on the runway. Does anyone know why this is happening?

Seems it is not aware of our situation for Landing Speeds for Rudder behaviour.

[Thogmar]

Simple, turn on the ground rudder assist. I'm doing so until I get my rudder pedals. I'm an IRL pilot and I don't really miss the rudder part for the moment, you can do 99% of the takeoff and landing manuevers just fine and it's much better on takeoff and landing. Once you get some rudder pedals or a joystick that behaves better in twist, it's just fine.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by Thogmar:

Once you get some rudder pedals or a joystick that behaves better in twist, it's just fine.

Except for the excessive rudder authority many complain about which can make it a challenge, which of course it should not be, to hold the center line of the runway, in some aircraft worse than others...