Can we get a proper Map Editor with the next game?

[DrunkenTee]

I love the FS series, but if you compare your Map Editor to that of other games, you are very very far behind in how easy it is to use, way too many things are overly complicated with how important those things are to add - like good looking roads.

Cant we get a proper Map Editor where you can pick a placeable from a list that will simply exist on the map then when I load it up in the game, instead of needing such a big work around just for a mere placeable that I may place another 50 of?

Your Map Editor requires too much learning while offering too little capability to even get close to what I'd think of as the current industry standard, and I have enjoyed making content for a big variety of games.

Please add more functionality to your Editor while making it a bit less complicated. It was a pain to go through the trial and error of finding out how to place a heap of stones/straw/hay, you name it.. especially being limited to its heap height unless you go through some sneaky workarounds, just let me pile it up with the add/remove function thats already in the game. Also how about letting me place crossroads, T-crossings etc and then connect (for example) a spline to a node of that crossing and use that to generate a stretch of road which aligns with the map theme US/DE/FR? You could easily combine this with the AI Traffic networking auto-generating with the roads too. Then at the ease of a simple button, open a list of all objects, trees, bushes, vehicles etc. to choose one from that I can then place right away where I'd like it to be, like roadsigns, lamps or traffic lights.

You are dominating a specific simulator niche where nobody can get even close to you (even if your driving physics are a bit funky and I hate the sticky pallets), but you are making it a big pain for a lot of people who would enjoy to add value to your game by creating a bunch of content, to a degree that I would rather hop onto another game and release my creative flow for content creation there instead - as much as I'd want to make something great for this game. Having to rely on professionals to figure everything out and then make 30 minute tutorials on how to place a stone pile that I could pick up with a shovel is mind boggling. No wonder most maps for this game are looking rather bad and undetailed, because there arent enough people that want to work full-time on a single 2x2km map.

[TheOriginalMark:-)]

Giants don't really read this forum, try posting on their own website.

[illgib]

Originally posted by Mark:

Giants don't really read this forum, try posting on their own website.

I posted some time ago the same question ontheir developer forum and i was almost "attached" by the veterans "Their engine and edit it's perfectly fine and if you wanna make mods you should know everything from modeling and coding or else don't make any".
Gatekeeping much.
It's easier to make a full game over Unreal engine than a simple map on their ancient map editor.

[Duke Dudeston]

Originally posted by illgib:

Originally posted by Mark:

Giants don't really read this forum, try posting on their own website.

I posted some time ago the same question ontheir developer forum and i was almost "attached" by the veterans "Their engine and edit it's perfectly fine and if you wanna make mods you should know everything from modeling and coding or else don't make any".
Gatekeeping much.
It's easier to make a full game over Unreal engine than a simple map on their ancient map editor.

They got to make themselves feel better than others some how.

You say its easier to make a full game using Unreal Engine... and yeah you might be right, but then there was a time that was heavily gatekept, when I wanted to get into programming (in the early 90s) I literally got told to give up as I will never have the ability or the tools to do so. How glad I am that has been blown wide open.

That all being said, I do agree, the map editor is way over confusing and I gave it a go, I just wanted to make a very simple map, and I gave up trying to work out what was wrong.

I mean we can literally design the map in game, easier than the map editor, we just want some more powerful tools in game that allows us to set where the store is, where roads are ect... I am sure it is possible to integrate this into game somehow, and then a "save map file" option.

I understand that making other mods like buildings and equipment needs external tools, because they do require a lot of work, but when you can literally do everything else in game.

[Throsbi]

You say its easier to make a full game using Unreal Engine than making a map for farm sim?

List your game you made and also the map and/or mods for Farm Sim I want to see this so I can agree or disagree with you.

Also this game you made does it allow all the things farm sim does while playing? I dont want to compare oranges to bananas

[DrunkenTee]

Originally posted by Throsbi:

You say its easier to make a full game using Unreal Engine than making a map for farm sim?

List your game you made and also the map and/or mods for Farm Sim I want to see this so I can agree or disagree with you.

Also this game you made does it allow all the things farm sim does while playing? I dont want to compare oranges to bananas

I mean to a degree hes right. To make a proper looking map for Farm Sim, you will have to use the Editor, you will have to write some code and you will have to use a 3D Editing Software like Blender. All the same things that you require to make a full game, just that UE gives you actual good tools to work with. It may not be shorter but its definitely easier.

[illgib]

Originally posted by Throsbi:

You say its easier to make a full game using Unreal Engine than making a map for farm sim?

List your game you made and also the map and/or mods for Farm Sim I want to see this so I can agree or disagree with you.

Also this game you made does it allow all the things farm sim does while playing? I dont want to compare oranges to bananas

https://illgib81.itch.io/tata-fantasy-firefighter
You're welcome. Mind that it changed a lot and i'm still working on it, i rebuilt almost from scratch the gatering and building system and i'm working on ai and dialogues.
Major of assets are made by me, building modules and vegetations are from packs, so i know what i'm doing.

By the way i never said "Easier to make a farming game", but any game since Unreal let you build whatever you want without even writing a single line of code, and there's an endless marketplace full of free and paid assets ready to use.
GiantEd have nothing, you have to modify an already made map or else you can't start from scratch, you can't build roads, you can't simply place buildings you have to manually write an xml, you can't in any way place vehicles, you have to manually write an xml, you have to write two separate xml for the store and the store map icon.
Tell me it's convulted whitout actually telling me.
An xml autocompiler sorta of would be a god send for map makers, as standards assets from the Giants maps aswell selectables from a scrolling list or placeable window with flags for game mode, and same for vehicles, that auto save and compile the needed xml's.

I tried several times in Fs19 to make a map, but i always gave up, and i never tried in Fs22 remembering the horrific experience.
I make some smaller mods for personal use though, and i uploaded a tedder/swatter conversion pack not long ago on KingsMod.

Hell, Ets2 have an ingame editor (a bit hidden) that let you "paint" roads and automatically build some land around and ai car lanes.

[illgib]

Originally posted by Duke Dudeston:

Originally posted by illgib:

I posted some time ago the same question ontheir developer forum and i was almost "attached" by the veterans "Their engine and edit it's perfectly fine and if you wanna make mods you should know everything from modeling and coding or else don't make any".
Gatekeeping much.
It's easier to make a full game over Unreal engine than a simple map on their ancient map editor.

They got to make themselves feel better than others some how.

You say its easier to make a full game using Unreal Engine... and yeah you might be right, but then there was a time that was heavily gatekept, when I wanted to get into programming (in the early 90s) I literally got told to give up as I will never have the ability or the tools to do so. How glad I am that has been blown wide open.

That all being said, I do agree, the map editor is way over confusing and I gave it a go, I just wanted to make a very simple map, and I gave up trying to work out what was wrong.

I mean we can literally design the map in game, easier than the map editor, we just want some more powerful tools in game that allows us to set where the store is, where roads are ect... I am sure it is possible to integrate this into game somehow, and then a "save map file" option.

I understand that making other mods like buildings and equipment needs external tools, because they do require a lot of work, but when you can literally do everything else in game.

Yep it desperately need an ingame map editor, all the logic and coding it's already there since it store the same required xml's into the local save folder, and that's how you actually create a vehicles.xml for the map, buying tractors ingame, and copy paste the file into the save folder into the map folder, and that make thing even more sillier since it show that could actually work pretty well.

[DrunkenTee]

Originally posted by illgib:

I'll give your game a shot and see how it runs on my PC for performance feedback

9700k with 2070S and 32gb on a Mateview GT34 ran more fluent than a river.

The camera positions could be better, when aiming its too far to the right and is sometimes blocked by walls when you stand in doorways. Walking normally feels a little odd when going up stairs in buildings or being close to walls so that you end up seeing nothing.

I was standing in front of the emergency board for 5 minutes, waiting for a call, eventually turned around after seeing none and noticed 3 burning houses.

Fire sometimes spread faster than I could extinguish, got me stuck at one building because I never got inside to even progress because of that instantly rekindling doorway fire.

Dying bugs your health and will keep your HP display at 0, no idea if I actually was stuck at 0 health or if I was full again.

No exit menu? Have to Alt F4.


I do enjoy the graphical setting for your idea, I think it fits and is the right choice, but obviously still needs some work to be a fully fledged game. Keep it up! :)

[illgib]

Originally posted by DrunkenTee:

Originally posted by illgib:

I'll give your game a shot and see how it runs on my PC for performance feedback :spiffo:

9700k with 2070S and 32gb on a Mateview GT34 ran more fluent than a river.

The camera positions could be better, when aiming its too far to the right and is sometimes blocked by walls when you stand in doorways. Walking normally feels a little odd when going up stairs in buildings or being close to walls so that you end up seeing nothing.

I was standing in front of the emergency board for 5 minutes, waiting for a call, eventually turned around after seeing none and noticed 3 burning houses.

Fire sometimes spread faster than I could extinguish, got me stuck at one building because I never got inside to even progress because of that instantly rekindling doorway fire.

Dying bugs your health and will keep your HP display at 0, no idea if I actually was stuck at 0 health or if I was full again.

No exit menu? Have to Alt F4.


I do enjoy the graphical setting for your idea, I think it fits and is the right choice, but obviously still needs some work to be a fully fledged game. Keep it up! :)

Indeed i discovered only a couple of days ago the hud bug, i never died when testing millions other things, now it's fixed.
As i said thta version it was the last update i did but i ended scrapping most of it and rebuilt most of the core mechanics, i don't remember if that build had the old camera or the new, anyway in the one i'm working on i already moved back both zoomed and regular, and many other things.
I slightly rebuilt the fire spreading mechanic and it's under testing .
I'm pretty much done with core ai behaviour and i have to start looking how to create dialogues and such, at the moment interactions are pretty simple "Press E to make things happen".
I'm pretty much using it as a learning ground for Unreal, i used it before back in the days making maps for Unreal Tournament and a couple of Viscera Cleanup maps, but i never managed to learn how it works and blueprinting, so everytime i learn something new usually i go back refining the old codes or changing/remake stuffs that doesn't fit anymore with the new adds.

It's a pretty big pita at times, but considering the progress so far i'm amazed of myself.
But still i can't grasp Giant editor for simple map making XD

[DrunkenTee]

Originally posted by illgib:

Originally posted by DrunkenTee:

I'll give your game a shot and see how it runs on my PC for performance feedback

9700k with 2070S and 32gb on a Mateview GT34 ran more fluent than a river.

The camera positions could be better, when aiming its too far to the right and is sometimes blocked by walls when you stand in doorways. Walking normally feels a little odd when going up stairs in buildings or being close to walls so that you end up seeing nothing.

I was standing in front of the emergency board for 5 minutes, waiting for a call, eventually turned around after seeing none and noticed 3 burning houses.

Fire sometimes spread faster than I could extinguish, got me stuck at one building because I never got inside to even progress because of that instantly rekindling doorway fire.

Dying bugs your health and will keep your HP display at 0, no idea if I actually was stuck at 0 health or if I was full again.

No exit menu? Have to Alt F4.


I do enjoy the graphical setting for your idea, I think it fits and is the right choice, but obviously still needs some work to be a fully fledged game. Keep it up! :)

Indeed i discovered only a couple of days ago the hud bug, i never died when testing millions other things, now it's fixed.
As i said thta version it was the last update i did but i ended scrapping most of it and rebuilt most of the core mechanics, i don't remember if that build had the old camera or the new, anyway in the one i'm working on i already moved back both zoomed and regular, and many other things.
I slightly rebuilt the fire spreading mechanic and it's under testing .
I'm pretty much done with core ai behaviour and i have to start looking how to create dialogues and such, at the moment interactions are pretty simple "Press E to make things happen".
I'm pretty much using it as a learning ground for Unreal, i used it before back in the days making maps for Unreal Tournament and a couple of Viscera Cleanup maps, but i never managed to learn how it works and blueprinting, so everytime i learn something new usually i go back refining the old codes or changing/remake stuffs that doesn't fit anymore with the new adds.

It's a pretty big pita at times, but considering the progress so far i'm amazed of myself.
But still i can't grasp Giant editor for simple map making XD

Because you will need to study game design and programming both for 7 years each first, before you can make a nice looking Farm Sim Map

[illgib]

Originally posted by DrunkenTee:

Originally posted by illgib:

Indeed i discovered only a couple of days ago the hud bug, i never died when testing millions other things, now it's fixed.
As i said thta version it was the last update i did but i ended scrapping most of it and rebuilt most of the core mechanics, i don't remember if that build had the old camera or the new, anyway in the one i'm working on i already moved back both zoomed and regular, and many other things.
I slightly rebuilt the fire spreading mechanic and it's under testing .
I'm pretty much done with core ai behaviour and i have to start looking how to create dialogues and such, at the moment interactions are pretty simple "Press E to make things happen".
I'm pretty much using it as a learning ground for Unreal, i used it before back in the days making maps for Unreal Tournament and a couple of Viscera Cleanup maps, but i never managed to learn how it works and blueprinting, so everytime i learn something new usually i go back refining the old codes or changing/remake stuffs that doesn't fit anymore with the new adds.

It's a pretty big pita at times, but considering the progress so far i'm amazed of myself.
But still i can't grasp Giant editor for simple map making XD

Because you will need to study game design and programming both for 7 years each first, before you can make a nice looking Farm Sim Map

I would die for a spline based in editor road builder tool, then they could keep anything else as is for what i could care.