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[EntityofDesire]

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[glowpiPe]

I would rather slide down a rusty, paint chipping enamel railing on my testicles than have this game go over to the unreal engine

The engine in fs is old and it is getting outdated and limiting. But the engine is specifically made for farming sim. Unreal engine, unity, or other engines would change the game so far from its roots that it couldn't be called farming simulator anymore. They would need to rebrand it

[Thorstorm]

Naughty Dog are a bunch of POS so no I wouldn't support them nor their crappy engine.

There are plenty of great game engines out there but it costs a lot of money and their developers need to get used to the engine before even starting a project.

[max954]

People think you can change a game engine like a pair of underwear.
In reality it is a very complex operation with high costs (developing new tools to port features to the newer engine, train the employees ecc).
"But muh dynamic soil"
I would prefer that giants focuses on improving the realism of the game (specific mechanics of every crops types, more realistic physics ecc) instead of focusing on meme soil.

Btw c&c doesn't use muh unreal engine to simulate memesoil and even their implementation (which look fine and play fine as well) is an half baked gimmick.

[Hiigara]

Well, its clear this game needs another enige. But devs are clever, They release an update as a new game with the same horrific physics. Same for 22...physics are just non existent. Oh wait...they showed a tractor going uphill going more slowly...WOW!!! That is THE physics invention of the year!

[max954]

Originally posted by Hiigara:

Well, its clear this game needs another enige. But devs are clever, They release an update as a new game with the same horrific physics. Same for 22...physics are just non existent. Oh wait...they showed a tractor going uphill going more slowly...WOW!!! That is THE physics invention of the year!

Are you a well versed modder with experience with Giants engine?
Because the game doesn't need a new engine to be more realistic: the added realism for vehicles mod exist as a mod since fs2013 (it was called the morerealistic and required to be implemented at a mod level).
Also Fdr modding mods show how you can improve the game physics (in this case logs) by simply tinkering the game values.

If the game feels arcady it is because of Giants deliberate choice (to them fs is a game focused towards kids, hence the simplified physics) not because the engine is not capable.

[cwattyeso]

Also something else to consider if the Game did move to another engine like Unreal would be that perhaps modding would not be as easy to do or certainly on the level we have come use to. Having tried to Mod a few games that use the Unreal Engine it’s certainly not the easiest thing to do.

Whilst a lot can be said about Giants Engine at least it’s user friendly and they also produce and release the tools needed to make and produce mods for the game.

So sometimes it’s better to stick with the devil you know then the switch to the one you don’t. The same reason other companies like for example Bethesda stick with their Creation Engine despite similar calls to move to something else.

[[PBS] epsilonion]

The other side of the coin is that paralaxed images and maps have been around along time now and they have only just updated there engine to use it so is the existing engine any better the usual unreal engine or unity (both ♥♥♥♥♥ to work with).

Then again why use a decent engine when all they do is include popular mods and Little else and release a new version lol

[ZedClampet]

Originally posted by Hero's Quest:

Many suggest this FS should be ported to Unreal engine, like its some magic bullet for the graphics and everything just transfers over. Yes the unreal engine has nice graphics but why not Frostbite or heck pay Naughty Dog for their engine?

Everybody seems to assume its just a matter of porting everything over, convert the graphic assets and boom unreal does the rest! Except thats not how it works.

Unreal engine was designed to make FPS and 3rd person gaming, with launch tools to do just that - make a simple FSP or adventure game. Thats why many of those types of games use it. Beyond that developers need to program/create tools that allow for other types of gameplay (from scratch) which is harder and time consuming.

This is why developers keep using the same engine, it does what they need it to do (be a farming simulator, be an RPG for bethseda, be a high fidelity adventure game for Naughty Dog or an FPS for EA) because its easier and cheaper to develop/advance a pre-existing engine than create a new one or buy somebody else's engine (who are doing the exact same thing to their engine - upgrading it slightly with each game.)

Now every few years we see Unreal announce their newest engine update, amazing everybody with its eye popping graphics - but how many games do we actually see reach that level of fidelity without spending AAA budgets on graphics? Why do u think so many crappy looking unreal games are on steam? Because it costs a lot to make a good looking game, most studios spend more than half their budgets on graphics alone.

More so Epic WANTS to market their game because if a developer uses it they get a royalty from EACH sale - that adds up fast until they sell I think its a million units? At which point they no longer do and that takes years to do - even for AAA games. The devs already have to give Steam, Microsoft and Sony 30% of each sale to them too don't forget.

But lets forget all that, lets assume Giants made that leap and got unreal or the devs at naughty dog REALLLY loved Farm siming and wanted to lend their engine to Giants.

I can gurantee FS would not meet players expectations, it would be missing gameplay they expect/or play differently than previous games because they'd have to make it new for a new engine which might not allow for it to work the way it used to. Not to mention probably cost AAA price to pay for the new artists to make all those new graphics and physics systems that control how farming equipment interacts with crops, animals, ect ect.

Whats really strange is I don't see any other simulator games with fanbases complaining about graphics, with games that often look far worse than FS 2019...

Anyway all I'm saying is changing engines isn't some magic bullet and why companies prefer to use/upgrade existing engines vs pay out to other companies to use their old engines which are basically just upgrades of their older engines.

I mean let me put it this way, if it was you - would you prefer to upgrade your own engine and make a sequel to a game you've worked on for years. Using tools you made and an engine you understand?

Or start paying royalties for another companies engine, that you've never used before and don't have full control of but still need to program all your own tools to create game play that existed in your previous engine. which takes months of retraining and hiring new staff just to make all those fancy new graphic assets/work in your game as they did in your previous engine?

If your answer is yes, buy the new engine - than your at odds with the entire gaming industry because the expensive of doing so while paying royalties on top of that are simply not worth it or gurantee a better product.

There is so much factually incorrect nonsense in this post that I don't even want to start addressing it.

[wolfedg]

Originally posted by ZedClampet:

"..."
There is so much factually incorrect nonsense in this post that I don't even want to start addressing it.

In other words you lack any evidence or examples to justify your statement. Got it.
I guess we'll assume his/her well thought out post is wrong just because you say so.

[Dark Phoenix]

The op is correct in spirit, but the reasons are...nebulous at best.

Unreal and unity can both do farming simulators. It's just content running in an engine. Doesn't matter if it was designed to do 1st person shooters...really, theres very little difference between unreal tournement and farming simulator, barring context. Both support a first person view, use of tools, and interaction with vehicles.

However.

The challenge comes in ensuring all these things that the devs want the engine to do, will work in a way they are familiar with. Its the training to use the engine, and the implmentation of the features which is the challenge. So yes, while switching engines is not a decision to be taken lightly, its not because the engine cant do it, but because the effort to move everything over to a new system outweighs any benefits.

[Gormett]

Originally posted by Hero's Quest:

Unreal engine was designed to make FPS and 3rd person gaming, with launch tools to do just that - make a simple FSP or adventure game. Thats why many of those types of games use it. Beyond that developers need to program/create tools that allow for other types of gameplay (from scratch) which is harder and time consuming.

This is why developers keep using the same engine, it does what they need it to do (be a farming simulator, be an RPG for bethseda, be a high fidelity adventure game for Naughty Dog or an FPS for EA) because its easier and cheaper to develop/advance a pre-existing engine than create a new one or buy somebody else's engine (who are doing the exact same thing to their engine - upgrading it slightly with each game.)

This argument falls the second you realize that it took Giants 13 years to add parrallax occlusion mapping. It's one click away in UE3 and 4. Same goes for Temporal Anti-Aliasing, Camera Occlusion Culling, etc.

World Of Tanks was originally made as an RPG game in an RPG game engine. The first "purpose" of an engine doesn't dictate what kind of games are made with it.
Like Unity. It can run Tarkov, Kerbal Space Program and Cuphead.

Originally posted by Hero's Quest:

Now every few years we see Unreal announce their newest engine update, amazing everybody with its eye popping graphics - but how many games do we actually see reach that level of fidelity without spending AAA budgets on graphics? Why do u think so many crappy looking unreal games are on steam? Because it costs a lot to make a good looking game, most studios spend more than half their budgets on graphics alone.

Maybe because the barrier of entry is so low that everyone can download UE and start fiddling with it instead of having to buy a tutorial just so you can start modding a game ?
Maybe because it's a modern and well documented engine that has a large community that makes guides, tutorials and marketplace content ?

Originally posted by Hero's Quest:

More so Epic WANTS to market their game because if a developer uses it they get a royalty from EACH sale - that adds up fast until they sell I think its a million units? At which point they no longer do and that takes years to do - even for AAA games. The devs already have to give Steam, Microsoft and Sony 30% of each sale to them too don't forget.

Well, who would've guessed that an engine that you don't have to develop yourself(, and is years ahead of "yours") costs money to use. Also AFAIK Epic starts taking royalties after you hit 1 000 000 $ in sales.

Originally posted by Hero's Quest:

I can gurantee FS would not meet players expectations, it would be missing gameplay they expect/or play differently than previous games because they'd have to make it new for a new engine which might not allow for it to work the way it used to. Not to mention probably cost AAA price to pay for the new artists to make all those new graphics and physics systems that control how farming equipment interacts with crops, animals, ect ect.

I don't know. I think players would be glad to have a 2021 game to look like and play like a 2021 game. And if not, wouldn't be the first time FS didn't meet player expectations. Like, where's the consistent physics, where's the non-white sky, where's GPS, where's custom animal pens (i don't mean the new fences, which are just that, decorative)

Originally posted by Hero's Quest:

Whats really strange is I don't see any other simulator games with fanbases complaining about graphics, with games that often look far worse than FS 2019...

Originally posted by Hero's Quest:

Anyway all I'm saying is changing engines isn't some magic bullet and why companies prefer to use/upgrade existing engines vs pay out to other companies to use their old engines which are basically just upgrades of their older engines.

Too bad the "old outdated upgraded engines" of other companies have cutting edge features.

Originally posted by Hero's Quest:

I mean let me put it this way, if it was you - would you prefer to upgrade your own engine and make a sequel to a game you've worked on for years. Using tools you made and an engine you understand?

Or start paying royalties for another companies engine, that you've never used before and don't have full control of but still need to program all your own tools to create game play that existed in your previous engine. which takes months of retraining and hiring new staff just to make all those fancy new graphic assets/work in your game as they did in your previous engine?

Oof, you got me. If i was a business I'd reuse the same old outdated engine because it really is cheaper and the fanboys will buy the same game every time along with clueless new players and continue to do so until the cow's dry.

But I still think that Giants engine is a sunk cost fallacy, especially when GIants themselves confirmed that GE hasn't been reworked in a loooong time, by saying that "there is a massive amount of dependencies with even the tiniest change. It's literally the risk of a butterfly effect that sticks to everything."[www.farming-simulator.com].