Elden ring combat feels like a contradiction at times.

[zmanbuilder]

Like what the game wants you to do and allows you to do, do not match up.

Anyone else get this feeling?

[2cide]

straight sword + 10
heater shield
gg
ez game

[ShadowDark3]

I'm not quite sure I get what you mean OP. Care to elaborate?

[zmanbuilder]

Początkowo opublikowane przez 2cide:

straight sword + 10
heater shield
gg
ez game

Yes and no, more often than not you will be forced to fight multiple enemies at once, then you will notice how clunky the lock on is, as you will feel that the combat was not made for fighting against groups.

Large enemies are the worst though, was fighting the ancient dragon, and it felt like it was in the wrong game.

[⛧Vinn⛧]

Początkowo opublikowane przez zmanbuilder:

Początkowo opublikowane przez 2cide:

straight sword + 10
heater shield
gg
ez game

Yes and no, more often than not you will be forced to fight multiple enemies at once, then you will notice how clunky the lock on is, as you will feel that the combat was not made for fighting against groups.

Large enemies are the worst though, was fighting the ancient dragon, and it felt like it was in the wrong game.

Have you tried… no lock on?

[⛧Vinn⛧]

Sh.t goes hard against groups and big foes

[zmanbuilder]

Początkowo opublikowane przez sweetcorn:

No. If you mean that the combat is difficult and your actions have to be deliberate then I can see where you're coming from but I am not sure what you are trying to say other than that

Difficulty is not my issue, I killed the ancient dragon again as i have many times before, but it is like the game cannot decide if i should be locked on or not, hard to track it when it jumps around while unlocked but harder to hit it while you are locked on, as this time i fought it with a great shield, while locked on i cannot block the attack as my character is not facing were the attacks come from.

I never felt like i got gud... only that i got good at exploiting the enemy ai by using cheap but highly effective tactics....

[⛧Vinn⛧]

Początkowo opublikowane przez zmanbuilder:

Początkowo opublikowane przez sweetcorn:

No. If you mean that the combat is difficult and your actions have to be deliberate then I can see where you're coming from but I am not sure what you are trying to say other than that

Difficulty is not my issue, I killed the ancient dragon again as i have many times before, but it is like the game cannot decide if i should be locked on or not, hard to track it when it jumps around while unlocked but harder to hit it while you are locked on, as this time i fought it with a great shield, while locked on i cannot block the attack as my character is not facing were the attacks come from.

I never felt like i got gud... only that i got good at exploiting the enemy ai by using cheap but highly effective tactics....

Its not that the game cannot decide when its best to lock on, thats on you. Its the players job to figure that out.

[zmanbuilder]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ⛧Vinn⛧:

Początkowo opublikowane przez zmanbuilder:

Difficulty is not my issue, I killed the ancient dragon again as i have many times before, but it is like the game cannot decide if i should be locked on or not, hard to track it when it jumps around while unlocked but harder to hit it while you are locked on, as this time i fought it with a great shield, while locked on i cannot block the attack as my character is not facing were the attacks come from.

I never felt like i got gud... only that i got good at exploiting the enemy ai by using cheap but highly effective tactics....

Its not that the game cannot decide when its best to lock on, thats on you. Its the players job to figure that out.

No disagreement on that.

But after 800 hours of playtime you start to notice things, like how you will feel punished for using fist weapons against certain enemies due to collision box making you not reach the hit box. Or when you do a guard counter for it to go ever the head of the enemy.

Instead of playing fancy it is better to just rush in, stun lock the enemy with heavy attacks and move on.

I believe elden ring pushes what you can do in a souls like to its limits, if they want to go beyond that, they will need to think about a new control systems as we have using the same one since demon souls, and frankly it is showing its limits.

[⛧Vinn⛧]

Początkowo opublikowane przez zmanbuilder:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ⛧Vinn⛧:

Its not that the game cannot decide when its best to lock on, thats on you. Its the players job to figure that out.

No disagreement on that.

But after 800 hours of playtime you start to notice things, like how you will feel punished for using fist weapons against certain enemies due to collision box making you not reach the hit box. Or when you do a guard counter for it to go ever the head of the enemy.

Instead of playing fancy it is better to just rush in, stun lock the enemy with heavy attacks and move on.

I believe elden ring pushes what you can do in a souls like to its limits, if they want to go beyond that, they will need to think about a new control systems as we have using the same one since demon souls, and frankly it is showing its limits.

I think if theres too many changes made to the tracking and animations of attacks + controls being revamped would make for a different type of game. A hack and slash rpg akin to trials of mana or devil may cry where its less skill based and more action based. This slow type of control over the character makes it what it is i think.

[zmanbuilder]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ⛧Vinn⛧:

Początkowo opublikowane przez zmanbuilder:

No disagreement on that.

But after 800 hours of playtime you start to notice things, like how you will feel punished for using fist weapons against certain enemies due to collision box making you not reach the hit box. Or when you do a guard counter for it to go ever the head of the enemy.

Instead of playing fancy it is better to just rush in, stun lock the enemy with heavy attacks and move on.

I believe elden ring pushes what you can do in a souls like to its limits, if they want to go beyond that, they will need to think about a new control systems as we have using the same one since demon souls, and frankly it is showing its limits.

I think if theres too many changes made to the tracking and animations of attacks + controls being revamped would make for a different type of game. A hack and slash rpg akin to trials of mana or devil may cry where its less skill based and more action based. This slow type of control over the character makes it what it is i think.

Part of the problems is that everything is ramping up more and more, you cannot be slow and methodical and high speed action at the same time.

I have been pondering of late about the combat of dragon's dogma 2, a soft lock no lock system built around fluid combat of fighting groups and being able to quickly and easily respond to what is going on. And if that combat was fused into into souls like combat, IF done correctly that would allow you to amp up the difficulty without it feeling clunky.

[⛧Vinn⛧]

Początkowo opublikowane przez zmanbuilder:

Początkowo opublikowane przez ⛧Vinn⛧:

I think if theres too many changes made to the tracking and animations of attacks + controls being revamped would make for a different type of game. A hack and slash rpg akin to trials of mana or devil may cry where its less skill based and more action based. This slow type of control over the character makes it what it is i think.

Part of the problems is that everything is ramping up more and more, you cannot be slow and methodical and high speed action at the same time.

I have been pondering of late about the combat of dragon's dogma 2, a soft lock no lock system built around fluid combat of fighting groups and being able to quickly and easily respond to what is going on. And if that combat was fused into into souls like combat, IF done correctly that would allow you to amp up the difficulty without it feeling clunky.

Ngl i didnt enjoy that button mashy combat in dogma :/ so pls no for souls games

[BingusDingus]

Do you mean in how bosses fly around like gundams and you're stuck to rolling? A lot of their souls games are contradiction in that sense, that's how they create the "difficulty." It's just that no matter how ridiculous the fights get you could always deal with it.

[zmanbuilder]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ⛧Vinn⛧:

Początkowo opublikowane przez zmanbuilder:

Part of the problems is that everything is ramping up more and more, you cannot be slow and methodical and high speed action at the same time.

I have been pondering of late about the combat of dragon's dogma 2, a soft lock no lock system built around fluid combat of fighting groups and being able to quickly and easily respond to what is going on. And if that combat was fused into into souls like combat, IF done correctly that would allow you to amp up the difficulty without it feeling clunky.

Ngl i didnt enjoy that button mashy combat in dogma :/ so pls no for souls games

I do not want the button mashy part, or to just rip the combat straight from dragons dogma either. Its more about the freedom in battle.

[BingusDingus]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ⛧Vinn⛧:

Początkowo opublikowane przez zmanbuilder:

Part of the problems is that everything is ramping up more and more, you cannot be slow and methodical and high speed action at the same time.

I have been pondering of late about the combat of dragon's dogma 2, a soft lock no lock system built around fluid combat of fighting groups and being able to quickly and easily respond to what is going on. And if that combat was fused into into souls like combat, IF done correctly that would allow you to amp up the difficulty without it feeling clunky.

Ngl i didnt enjoy that button mashy combat in dogma :/ so pls no for souls games

Don't see how souls games are any better. All you do is just mash the same 2 or 3 buttons.

[Chris1]

Totally agree. FromSoft has been trying and failing to figure out "large bosses" since Demon's Souls. DLC really exposes a lot of camera issues but the base game has plenty as well. Locking on to huge bosses feet and poking them with a stick for 20 minutes, where the only danger is a wacky camera that can make it totally impossible to tell what is going on (not the player's fault at all, despite what apologists will imply). DLC makes it worse with all the boss zooming going on. I think I was killed the most by Messmer's RNG make random slice of arena stagger you while snake pops up and it moves so fast the camera can't keep up.

Not to mention all the game mechanics that FromSoft feels compelled to simply punish you for using. Sure, try to heal, the boss will zoomy over to you and punish you for that without giving you time to heal. Sure, try to roll, the boss will zoomy zoomy 2 hit combo to roll catch you. You're a mage, sure, try casting that spell, the boss will zoomy zoomy across the arena to combo you in the face and not give enough punish window time for you to even punish them back.

These are not well developed rewarding satisfying game play mechanics for many players.