Turn based combat

[28k]

I've been working my way through Elden Ring which is my first Souls game, and come to conclusion that at it's heart this is a turn based game, unless you're a ranged character, but in some cases even that style, requires you to approach the game as a turn based game.

For the most part mobs move glacially slow, which "tricks" the new player to charge in and attack and get destroyed, however, that glacial pace leads up to an attack sequence that for the most part you need to "wait" out by backing off or dodging so you can have your turn in attacking. That's basically turn based combat.

That pretty much sums up every encounter I've had, even fast moving bosses like the red wolf charges in but then comes to a stop after attacking, so you again wait your turn to attack. They just flipped the mechanic with this guy.

Personally I prefer more dynamic combat where the AI isn't locked in to telegraphing and playing out it's moves so you can go next. It gives the player far more options in play style.

Also I guess they added archery to this game? It's pretty clunky and with allot of movement restrictions between the target locking, and super zoomed in aiming, but I guess it was the best they could do without breaking their combat mechanics.

This is just my observation. Personally, I had way more fun in Skyrim just cranking the difficulty to Extreme, modding the mobs to do more damage,and then playing a more dynamic open style of combat. But that's just me.

[vamirez]

This game is not about waiting a long time for your opening. This is a bit of a trap you can fall into. Identify opportunities, don't be too passive, unleash or the enemy will unleash on you.

[Sparhawk 59]

What turn based never, no.

[Nibbie]

I think you'll find most action RPGs are 'turn based' to some extent. I call it the 'parry, riposte' style; block/dodge/otherwise avoid an attack, attack back, repeat. Most video game enemies are designed to have openings for the player to exploit, so waiting for those openings is the most reliable way to beat them. Even Skyrim which you mentioned, pretty sure most enemies attack at a pace where you can block or move away from their attack, then safely attack them back for a bit, repeat until victory.

[mpcgannon]

Diablo was turn based. The team came to the conclusion it should be real time. They ran it so there was like 60 turns per second and *poof* it became real time

[Arngrim]

As you alluded to it depends on build. If you are fast it can be a bit more fluid, if you are slower it pretty much is a case of waiting for (somtimes very few) openings.

[nfinite.recursion]

Originally posted by 28k:

I've been working my way through Elden Ring which is my first Souls game, and come to conclusion that at it's heart this is a turn based game...

And it's safe to stop stop here. OP embarrasses himself with a bad take displaying a thorough misunderstanding of what "turn-based combat" is.

[Yal]

I've heard people describe DS1 as "turn based, your stamina bar is actually the ATB gauge from Final Fantasy" so it checks out. Though there's definitely things you can do to avoid having to wait out enemies every time:

- Blocking with a good enough shield will make enemy attacks bounce off, stunning them and letting you counterattack
- Jumping attacks and certain Ashes of War lets you approach an enemy safely and knock them out of the attack they were planning to do
- Dodging out of the way (or just walking around the enemy) often lets you end up out of their attacks and lets you backstab them before they have a chance to turn around
- The biggest bosses usually have issues actually hitting you if you get very close to them

I find enemies with a lot of poise (e.g. Crucible Knights) to be the hardest to fight because you don't have the choice to interrupt them, other than that the game really encourages being aggressive and not letting enemies attack if you can avoid it - once you start going on the defensive things usually get much harder.

[Muse Snooze]

It's a real time DnD sim, play DnD and or more Fromsoft games. Seriously, Armored Core is 1:1 with these games, just minus interconnected worlds and plus mechas, they both have stamina meters and third person combat with hard timings on attacks.

[zanzibaroz]

you think this is pokemon or smth

[28k]

Originally posted by nfinite.recursion:

Originally posted by 28k:

I've been working my way through Elden Ring which is my first Souls game, and come to conclusion that at it's heart this is a turn based game...

And it's safe to stop stop here. OP embarrasses himself with a bad take displaying a thorough misunderstanding of what "turn-based combat" is.

It's also safe to say you can only see things in the literal sense. Everyone knows what a 100% turn based game is. You've kind of missed the point of my post. If I told you I was so hot I was melting, you would probably say Woah dude stop right there, unless you are made of wax you can't be melting!! Read some of the other responses to get a feel for what I mean in the context of this game.

[nfinite.recursion]

Whether I interpret your post literally or read into its effective context, it's wrong in both interpretations. If you're "waiting your turn" you simply aren't being aggressive enough. Granted, being too aggressive is guaranteed death, especially with some bosses. There's a balance to aggressive offence and then falling back to defense.

Demon's Souls was my first Souls game and I felt very much the same as you while playing a basic knight character: enemy attacks my shield -> I attack them -> I raise shield and back away -> stamina fills back up and I move back in to engage. Rinse. Repeat. Boring.

Googled something like "demons souls combat tips" and saw a guy on Youtube with a light build roll dodging everything, stabbing a few times, and rolling past the enemy counterattacks. Looked a lot more fun. I wasn't confident enough to give up my shield but began incorporated more roll dodging in my playstyle. Raised my shield when I knew I screwed up to try and block an incoming attack. It worked well enough and was a lot more fun.

Fast forward a bit to DS3 and the movement and combat speed was increased. I could be much more aggressive and most enemies couldn't keep up. Additionally, I began using more aggressive rolls. By that I mean that rather than rolling away or to the side of an enemy, I'd roll forward directly through their attacks and be in a prime position to attack.

In ER, I started with the same aggressive playstyle because I was equating it to "Open World Dark Souls." This held true until I fought Margit. He absolutely trashed me multiple times in a row. I decided to go elsewhere in the world and explore. After I came back, I was ready to die and just started the fight slowly. It was then that I finally noticed something about Margit's AI: his aggression increases along with your own. I found a balance of my usual aggression and then backing off so he can "cool down."

After that, I looked at ER's bosses a bit differently. There's this expectation of the player becoming aggressive and then backing away at the appropriate time, due to the boss going into a lengthy combo that is difficult to dodge or will burn up all of your stamina or begin using AoE attacks.

What I'm rambling on about is this:

You make the openings. And you don't have to be as aggressive as me or others to achieve this either. A weapon with a longer reach like a spear or halberd can be a huge advantage if the enemy cannot reach you. Purposefully bait enemies into certain attacks, roll through them and land a nice combo or a backstab. Use an Ash of War like "Square Off" to break the enemy's poise and run in for a critical hit. Some enemies panic when set on fire, giving you a chance to score more hits.

Try different things. Don't be afraid to die in this game. Dying in ER is not the same as losing. Losing runes sucks, but they don't matter as much as you may think they do. Take the time to develop a more aggressive playstyle and you can avoid the "turn-based combat" feel from playing passively.