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討論區規矩與守則
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I think that similarities and inspiration is a little different from just lifting and shifting assets from older games and pretending they are brand new here. The parry animation is the same from ds3 and 1, the back stab is the same as the older games, the visceral attacks are the same animations from bb, 90% of all weapon animations and spell animations are ctrl+v'd into this game from all the other games, Godrick soldiers and lothric soldier reskin, same with the knights, the list goes on. Seeing enemies like Asylum demon (something we criticised for being repeated 3 times in 1) 13+ times here just felt cheap, and what little enemies were new were also repeated ad nauseam.
Crypts are copied from 3, the churches aswell and then across the entire map every time you find a church it is ALWAYS the exact same one, broken/worn down identically as the other ones. Caeilid, Limgrave Liurnia and atlus plateau are all literally the same few hills and landscapes copied across with slight alterations like colour pallet swaps or few additions here and there but if you made all of them share the same colour pallet I guarantee you'd have a hard time telling where you are.
Point is people bring up the copy paste because there is little to nothing new added to distract you from the rehashed stuff. I think as you said the reason it felt fresh for you is you skipped some games. I played through all the ds games, bb and sekiro, so this was just felt like a fan made project where they threw everything at the screen and hoped it'd stick. Add to that how horrible the technical performance is still to this day, them reusing the same tired engine and ai for the last 15 years with the only real way to make stuff harder is by making it faster and more aggressive, over abundance of aoe and input reading, and inflated hp and dmg pools leaving most bosses feeling objectively lower quality than past entries, which doesn't help that what is an otherwise mediocare boss is then repeated 5+ times on average.
Does GoW have the same flaw re copying past assets. 100% yes! So much so that in the beginning it made it really hard to like the game since it felt that I've already played it once, and unfortunatelly for it they didn't add enough to spice up the combat so it felt fresh or new in anyway. You got no combos, no chaining stuff between weapons, nothing that feels flashing and a really odd levelling system that soft locks your ability to do cc and damage on harder difficulties making it kind of unfeasible to do gmgow unless you want every engage to be an exercise in frustration.
But where GoW failed to innovate, it had one of the best story/cinematic gaming experiences that made it a joy to play through and deal with what would otherwise detract from the game. They did add new sections and stuff to play (not enough imo and I am trying to stay away from spoilers just in case) and most importantly the game worked. ER came out at an abysmal state and sadly it still is in that same trashy state. Check the discussion tab and you'll see a sea of "how do I stop this game crashing/stuttering/dropping fps/all of the above", console performance was locked at 30 fps and bugs galore, like invisible enemies and etc.
So not having experienced the other candidates I can't say anything about them, but out of ER and GoW I'd argue one was more of a complete experience that had the player in mind first, while the other tried to hard to pander to the casual audience by trying to force the players to engage with their game that historically was never something the community wanted to do (balancing everything around ash summons first and everything after being an afterthought). So with that in mind if I had to pick, having 100%'d both games I lean more towards gow.
Aight so i like our back & fourth. A civil & engaging conversation here.
Good shout on skipping DS2 & DS3, i spent 3000hrs in 3 & it left me pretty burned out with little Elden Ring.
i do disagree on the IP point though.
Fallout 1 is a damn fine game that though metagamey, really pushed the player to pay attention to & engage with the world. Fallout 4 is... closer to Borderlands 2 honestly, a looter shooter.
I'll give you this, Fallout 2 is pretty much just a clone of 1, with more content & a few tweaks like DS & ER. And fallout 3 is about as Stale as Oblivion (good shout missing that too, though i still play out of nostalgia & curiosity.)
I don't think TF2 will ever have a successor that isn't just an update in the form of TF3 on Source 2. https://youtu.be/uKd6xikyMIc?t=216 shared because it's cool as hell.
And For Honor mixed things up with the fighting game genre. Shame the updates walked it back into the womb though.
Finally, i think hosting a celebration of any progress made over a year, should be hosted at the end of the year. Call me stubborn but i reassert that Dwarf Fortress deserves that cake.
True. I should have split them up like this:
Same-ish:
Same-ish:
I just mean the mod for Quake though. TF2 is a beloved game, but like what you're arguing about ER, TF2 just built upon its predecessor. Cool vid though.
Been meaning to play this. I have it for free on 3 different platforms.
So then you're saying you consider Elden Ring to be the 2nd best game of 2022?
Also, was it mentioned somewhere that 100% of everything would be brand new? I don't recall any of those claims. So I'm not sure what you mean by pretending. You make it sound like FromSoft lied to us or something. I'm sure their games even share ideas and employees with Armored Core. It's the same company. That makes sense. I've never played a series of games that didn't do this.
I can't comment on DS3, but I was replaying Dark Souls 1 in February and earlier. My transition to Elden Ring was more different than expected, so I felt like I had to relearn to play. Backstabs are significantly easier and parries are harder/different. And the rest of combat timing is just...different. So, I don't agree that they're the same. But if it is, what's bad about that? Do you not like backstabs and parries from the earlier games? Why would changing it be better?
My take on what happened, and other similar takes as yours, is that your expectations relative to the jump from DS3 to ER were not what you wanted. To use fake numbers, you perhaps expected a 100% improvement in the product where it's perhaps just a 20% improvement (or maybe 20% worse). And that means disappointment. Basically you were chasing a new high. I, however, did get that new high, because I took a decade off from the franchise.
Also, I'm pretty sure the churches, as an example, are not exactly the same. They have different layouts, etc. However, wouldn't it make sense for things to have similar layouts? Think of architecture throughout history from the same time period and/or region. It's similar to each other. The question should be, why would they be different?
If anything should be different it should be enemies of the same type. All Godrick soldiers shouldn't have the same size. All nobles shouldn't be skinny, etc.
As for the rest of that stuff, I don't agree that it's a bad move to do those things. Again, every game series does this. To me, all I'm hearing is FromSoft burnout. Why not complain about Patches (npc, not 1.08)? That's the one area where people are 100% correct. He's a copy & paste. At least get the guy a toupee.
But honestly, I never found myself saying to myself that I wasn't having fun because it was too similar to a past game. Maybe DS3 really burned people out.
One thing though, on reused enemies. Maybe they felt that people would skip a lot while playing and only encounter non-unique bosses fewer times?
What I'm hearing is burnout, because you just described a game I'd like to play. Seems like what every company does.
Abysmal is a stretch. Had issues =/= abysmal. I played ER from launch and every single day until about July. It was pretty good. Probably a B+/A- performance.
Most new games are unplayable to the point where I literally do not play them after launch for 6 months, 1 years, 2 years, etc.
It's not perfect and still isn't. But no PC game is, even years after launch.
Excluding multiplayer. I'd give multiplayer a D grade, meaning below industry average. However, it's been much better since 1.07 for me.
It was not balanced around ash summons. But ash summons do enable those that historically could not keep up with these games to now play them. I ignored their existence and it felt good. I used them enough to try them out to see what they're capable of though. And on some bosses, where I'd jump to my death to then redo them without spirits. So, I disagree with this.
considering that the other games this year were even worse than GOW it most likely does mean that
Unless we have some xenoblade fanatics around.
This is why it's critically important to own multiple gaming platforms - not just a PC.
I do own a ps5 and a switch. I regret buying both because 99% of the games on them are either garbage or have better versions on PC.
And switch is just a bad console in general even if it had good games on it. Steam deck is way better.