fromsoft stop trying to appeal to an audience that isnt your core fanbase......

[Cain]

this is a simple post im making just to say to bring back ds3 style invasions cause that game was where invasions were at their peak and its MORONIC that fromsoft is trying to phase invasions out of existance when invasions have ALWAYS been a core part of what makes soulsborne games soulsborne games and as onlywaifu said in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfDp1dUiheU , if they keep this up than they will essentially just be stopping making souls games because pvp is that core to how they play...... like full stop invasions were how they did challenge to face hosts with summons back in the day but in elden ring now, we have rune bears and fire knights and banished knights and revenants and lobsters and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dogs and crows of caelid and the fire chariots and so on and so on of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ UNFAIR ENEMIES because thats the only way to create a challenge strong enough to fight a host with multiple summons but that means people NOT summoning basically just have to ignore them and cant fight them and it ruins pve for EVERYONE who doesnt summon and even for those who do cause even with summons, those enemies SUCK to fight with your next game needs to COMPLETELY do away with the general enemy design for anything that IS NOT a boss and return to previous games examples of how to do that with again, a focus on invaders as the threat to those who summon phantoms to balance hosts cause souls games ARE NOT AND HAVE NEVER BEEN co op games even with the quote of jolly cooperation, the point of the actual gameplay side of things has never focused for good reason on going through all the levels and areas with friends and to act like it has is to miss the point..............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w2cicSGb4o

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by BoD6-4:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

What cheat does an invader use?
As you are implying every single invader is cheating so please, care to explain?
Or you really think every invader and every twink is a cheater?
I already got to endgame with something around lvl 35 and +3 golden halberd, what is enough to invade people asking for help at Margit (at around lvl 30~40 with +2 to +3 weapon) .... so what? I also cheated there?
(Btw, my equip can mostly be acquired at Limgrave and Caelid, 2 early areas)

https://imgur.com/a/UIi9mUN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppVaJz0yq_c
Plus, the person I answer to has basically declared himself as a cheater and normalized the use of cheat engine for pvp purposes

So "that person" cheated therefore "every-single invader" cheated?

[BoD[6-4]]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

So "that person" cheated therefore "every-single invader" cheated?

Cheating has been normalized and promoted.
It becomes carrect and safe to assume that most invaders cheat regularly

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by BoD6-4:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

So "that person" cheated therefore "every-single invader" cheated?

Cheating has been normalized and promoted.
It becomes obvious to assume that most invaders cheat regularly

It became "normalized by wrong mindset" like yours because you dont see yourself being able to twink (or not even not twinking, just invading at higher lvls) without.

[Darkstorm]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by Darkstorm:

Do you understand game does not give you 4 talisman slots from the start? Do you understand that you don't have 10 starlight shards per invasion, 10 meat raw dumplings, marika blessing, no 10 "bomba" with ability to craft more if you manage somehow to get out of the combat mode, no top tier talismans but rather +0 version of it if anything. And in the end why does it matter?

It will never end. PvErs complain about invasions, and invaders complain about advantages on the host side.

Do you understamd that other than using Taunter Tongue host have 1 or 2 players that are often equiped with endgame gear + not necessarily limited to host lvl + can summon blue that also is not limited?
The advantage is always with the host but From only made it worst in ER

Blue is limited, why wouldn't they, huh? Only cooperators are not limited if pw summoned and that is not always the case either. It's true that there are no circumstances that 3v1 is fair, but you gotta blame devs for implementing it that way. Still you are trying to justify cheating especially at low level as lvl 30 was mentioned with invader being fully stocked via cheat engine. If I am the host and I just launched the game for the first time, and got slapped 100 times by tree sentinel, and I decide to try summon these guys at first step, and I get invaded and it's either the red guy slapping me this time with DLC big "bomba" or a rot pot or it's still tree sentinel one shoting me, because tree sentinel is not the advantage on the invader side, is it?

How about the system being fully optional (just like it actually is via seamless), pvers don't cry anymore, and people who enjoy this kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ will have it anyway?

[psilocybe]

Originally posted by Darkstorm:

How about the system being fully optional (just like it actually is via seamless), pvers don't cry anymore, and people who enjoy this kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ will have it anyway?

lol-- yea.. I basically exclusively pvp on seemless now, because of load times.

But, I'll still complain about it.


/edit.

For context.. in seemless.. the host can even change the individual stat mechanics of each item/enemy, via other mods.. and the invader has to just kind of adapt.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Darkstorm:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Do you understamd that other than using Taunter Tongue host have 1 or 2 players that are often equiped with endgame gear + not necessarily limited to host lvl + can summon blue that also is not limited?
The advantage is always with the host but From only made it worst in ER

Blue is limited, why wouldn't they, huh? Only cooperators are not limited if pw summoned and that is not always the case either. It's true that there are no circumstances that 3v1 is fair, but you gotta blame devs for implementing it that way. Still you are trying to justify cheating especially at low level as lvl 30 was mentioned with invader being fully stocked via cheat engine. If I am the host and I just launched the game for the first time, and got slapped 100 times by tree sentinel, and I decide to try summon these guys at first step, and I get invaded and it's either the red guy slapping me this time with DLC big "bomba" or a rot pot or it's still tree sentinel one shoting me, because tree sentinel is not the advantage on the invader side, is it?

How about the system being fully optional (just like it actually is via seamless), pvers don't cry anymore, and people who enjoy this kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ will have it anyway?

I am not trying to justify any cheating, you people are the ones implying invaders, ALL invaders, are cheaters.

And the thing .... you just said I complain about something built in the game by its rules but think it is fine to "cheat" to opt-out of invasions while cooping and saying it is fine, justifying cheating the system for that matter.

[BoD[6-4]]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

It became "normalized by wrong mindset" like yours because you dont see yourself being able to twink (or not even not twinking, just invading at higher lvls) without.

I haven't ever normalized cheating in pvp context unlike most invaders

And no, I won't invade cause I'm not interested in interacting with even just one of these things:
- cheaters
- hide & seek
- running sim
- crap netcode

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

you people are the ones implying invaders, ALL invaders, are cheaters.

iirc I always said "most if not all" which is not equal to "implying they all are" as I'm putting in consideration that a small percentage may not cheat

[Darkstorm]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Originally posted by Darkstorm:

Blue is limited, why wouldn't they, huh? Only cooperators are not limited if pw summoned and that is not always the case either. It's true that there are no circumstances that 3v1 is fair, but you gotta blame devs for implementing it that way. Still you are trying to justify cheating especially at low level as lvl 30 was mentioned with invader being fully stocked via cheat engine. If I am the host and I just launched the game for the first time, and got slapped 100 times by tree sentinel, and I decide to try summon these guys at first step, and I get invaded and it's either the red guy slapping me this time with DLC big "bomba" or a rot pot or it's still tree sentinel one shoting me, because tree sentinel is not the advantage on the invader side, is it?

How about the system being fully optional (just like it actually is via seamless), pvers don't cry anymore, and people who enjoy this kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ will have it anyway?

I am not trying to justify any cheating, you people are the ones implying invaders, ALL invaders, are cheaters.

And the thing .... you just said I complain about something built in the game by its rules but think it is fine to "cheat" to opt-out of invasions while cooping and saying it is fine, justifying cheating the system for that matter.

I see you quite don't understand the difference. Let's say you play counter strike and you installed aimbot. In one scenario you play vs bots and in another you play casual or ranked match vs other players. When you play against bots nobody knows, nobody cares.

Now in Elden Ring I am summoned by underleveled player for a firegiant and I am kinda low level for that fight too. Then I get invaded by a dude that throws pots at us like there is no tomorrow and I don't have pots to throw them back at him. It's pretty annoying to play against such dude, but they would only say they saved time with cheat engine because they could legitimately grind it all so it shouldn't matter to me. But it does because I could use cheat engine as well and we would be even while I would still have a host by my side, but I didn't cheat so I get "bomba" in my face!

And now with the case where I opt out from invasions while doing coop via mod. I do cheat the system but you don't get affected by it. I could install a randomizer or triple the enemies and make it way harder and it's none of your business. Just like you using aimbot vs bots in cs shouldn't be mine.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Darkstorm:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I am not trying to justify any cheating, you people are the ones implying invaders, ALL invaders, are cheaters.

And the thing .... you just said I complain about something built in the game by its rules but think it is fine to "cheat" to opt-out of invasions while cooping and saying it is fine, justifying cheating the system for that matter.

I see you quite don't understand the difference. Let's say you play counter strike and you installed aimbot. In one scenario you play vs bots and in another you play casual or ranked match vs other players. When you play against bots nobody knows, nobody cares.

Now in Elden Ring I am summoned by underleveled player for a firegiant and I am kinda low level for that fight too. Then I get invaded by a dude that throws pots at us like there is no tomorrow and I don't have pots to throw them back at him. It's pretty annoying to play against such dude, but they would only say they saved time with cheat engine because they could legitimately grind it all so it shouldn't matter to me. But it does because I could use cheat engine as well and we would be even while I would still have a host by my side, but I didn't cheat so I get "bomba" in my face!

And now with the case where I opt out from invasions while doing coop via mod. I do cheat the system but you don't get affected by it. I could install a randomizer or triple the enemies and make it way harder and it's none of your business. Just like you using aimbot vs bots in vs shouldn't be mine.

Yes I do understand the difference, it is "invader cheating to get ingame items to play normally with cheated items" and "seamless coop cheaters cheating the system with external program to avoid getting invaded", it is cheating regardless but the "Invader" is actually bypassing time while the seamless coop users are cheating the system as a whole, even changing how the coop itself work.

Denying that seamless users are cheating the system while saying invaders cheat their items is hypocrisy at its finest.

I dont say all invaders are not cheating (as I also dont say all invaders cheat),but even if they cheat their items within their inventories (hell, even their level) they are still playing the invasion normally by the game rules for invasion.

Seamless coop users are not playing by any of the game rules for coop and opting out of invasion they are playing even less by the game rules, so the invader that cheated his char inventory and level to invade is cheating less than whoever uses seamless to avoid invasions and coop all the way bypassing everything within the game rules for coop.

[BoD[6-4]]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Denying that seamless users are cheating the system while saying invaders cheat their items is hypocrisy at its finest.

It actually happens the opposite: invaders saying "INVASIONS ARE PART OF THE GAME SO YOU SHOULDN'T AVOID IT. YOU MUST PLAY IT AS INTENDED" while they've been the firsts who has been playing as not intended in the first place.

And I still can't see how to consider seamless cheating when I've had far easier time facing bosses alone rather than with friends (and I'm far from being the better player in my group).

And to return on one of the topic touched by OP, once again the "FS is treating invaders like garbage and trying to discourage invading", I have one more thing to say. From FS's perspective most invaders (expecially the youtuber claiming so) are people who should be banned from their multiplayer but they don't manage to, of course they'd treat them like garbage.

[BoD[6-4]]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

they are still playing the invasion normally by the game rules for invasion.

They are not: if they were they'd throw way less granade, they'd use way less arrows (as stated by psilocybe) and things would be radically different.

They're not playing by the rules.

Opting out through seamless is a way to avoid playing with players who break the rules, which is very much the intended experience

Every argument you're using is ridicolous and illogic

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by BoD6-4:

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Denying that seamless users are cheating the system while saying invaders cheat their items is hypocrisy at its finest.

It actually happens the opposite: invaders saying "INVASIONS ARE PART OF THE GAME SO YOU SHOULDN'T AVOID IT. YOU MUST PLAY IT AS INTENDED" while they've been the firsts who has been playing as not intended in the first place.

And there you go implying "every invader is cheating" as I myself dont even believe it is the majority that cheats (as I did help others to bosses and even through entirety of mountaintops, snowfield, liurnia ...) and from all the invaders I can count with the fingers of 1 single hand the amount of "cheaters" I found that had an insane amount of items at their disposal, so you are spreading there just a plain futile fallacy (or what, from over 400 times I helped others I am super lucky to have just "less than a handfull" of "possible cheaters"? That makes it at worst case scenario only 1%).

Originally posted by BoD6-4:

And I still can't see how to consider seamless cheating when I've had far easier time facing bosses alone rather than with friends (and I'm far from being the better player in my group).

~Does seamless mod bypass all the coop rules?
Yes.
Is it external program applied over the game?
Yes.
See where it is cheating?
It only becomes worst by bypassing even more rules by opting out invasions.

Originally posted by BoD6-4:

And to return on one of the topic touched by OP, once again the "FS is treating invaders like garbage and trying to discourage invading", I have one more thing to say. From FS's perspective most invaders (expecially the youtuber claiming so) are people who should be banned from their multiplayer but they don't manage to, of course they'd treat them like garbage.

And there is your bias (hatred) 101 talking.

[EF_Neo1st]

I myself personally dont care if invaders cheat (as far as they dont break my game) or if people cheat their way with seamless, if they dont break my game it is fine by me and those that cheat using seamless would not play the normal coop anyway so it dont affect my game, but to say "they are not cheating" or "how are they cheating" by using seamless is hypocrite

[BoD[6-4]]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

And there you go implying "every invader is cheating"

Find the part where I say it, thanks. I always said most, which is far different

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

as I myself dont even believe it is the majority that cheats

Considering how much it's normalized it is safe that assume that they're the majority

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

and from all the invaders I can count with the fingers of 1 single hand the amount of "cheaters" I found that had an insane amount of items at their disposal, so you are spreading there just a plain futile fallacy (or what, from over 400 times I helped others I am super lucky to have just "less than a handfull" of "possible cheaters"? That makes it at worst case scenario only 1%).

Everything done for reducing the chances to encounter cheaters is legit and undeserving of blame

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

Does seamless mod bypass all the coop rules?
Yes.
Is it external program applied over the game?
Yes.
See where it is cheating?

Nope, because by that mean every single mod becomes a cheat. As far as you're concerned I may play seamless with friendly fire, with enemies having double the hps and damage or whatever

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

It only becomes worst by bypassing even more rules by opting out invasions.

You mean opting out from the possibility of facing cheaters?

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

And there is your bias (hatred) 101 talking.

Oh right. Now presenting the fact that those who break the ToS should be banned from multiplayer (which is stated by the ToS you agreed on and From Software made you accept if you wanted to play the game on official service) is hatred. Sounds logic.

And no, seamless does not break any ToS as it doesn't make use of official service but only of the software which the ToS states you're allowed to modify as much as you want and as long as you don't use their service

[BoD[6-4]]

Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:

I myself personally dont care if invaders cheat (as far as they dont break my game) or if people cheat their way with seamless, if they dont break my game it is fine by me and those that cheat using seamless would not play the normal coop anyway so it dont affect my game, but to say "they are not cheating" or "how are they cheating" by using seamless is hypocrite

dude, you're the hypocrite here, togheter with other people defending invasions

Just because you don't care it doesn't mean everyone else should be ok with playing against people who cheat items for themselves and then play pvp with the illegitly modified character