They ruined the Greatshield Talisman

[Broso]

Let's be real here. The only reason for using up an entire talisman slot for that talisman was to be able to enable ultimate tank mode with Fingerprint Stone Shield. The difference between having it on and not having it on now is ridiculously small, negligible even, may just as well not use a shield anymore.

I don't know if they did this for PvP, but if so, then PvE got ♥♥♥♥♥♥ by this unreasonably hard. Why even have shields if they don't shield you? Just leave them out of the game next time, FFS.


Edit (to answer certain replies):

It was not needed in PvE at all. You still had to have high enough stats to even carry it since it is very heavy and you had to use one talisman slot.

Maybe having 100% guard boost was too much but now it barely does anything in addition to what the shield does anyway and I tested it against some enemies I use for benchmarking purposes and you take too ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ much stamina damage, this is ridiculous. Why should I even use such a heavy shield now? It's nonsense.

They did ♥♥♥♥ about Bloodhound's Step but they ruin this? Why?

There are also plenty attacks that come from overhead, for example the drop attack the big hands do, that a shield even at 100% guard boost will not just magically block for you. And shields also do ♥♥♥♥ against grab attacks so no, it was not god mode it was not easy mode it was just an alternate playstyle which is a lot less viable now.

[Shiggieb00]

Publicado originalmente por Masterflaw:

If there was any build that was truly broken in the game...this was it...

From just wants people to have a good experience...hiding behind the fingerprint shield isn't what they had in mind

Actually I think it is.. Because thats literally EXACTLY what its for

[jasonbarron]

Publicado originalmente por Smokes:

Publicado originalmente por jasonbarron:

Mumbo-jumbo. There's a reason so many people use shields and, spoiler alert, it ain't because they require more skill.

I mean that is exactly the level of reply I expect, and exactly why none of you ever get a reply from me. Gl hf =p

Oh, I seem to get plenty of replies from you, Smoky m'boy. Sorry your shield style got nerfed. I'm not exactly chuffed about what I'm hearing about Adula's Moonblade, either

[♔V3RD1CT]

Publicado originalmente por jasonbarron:

Publicado originalmente por Smokes:

I mean that is exactly the level of reply I expect, and exactly why none of you ever get a reply from me. Gl hf =p

Oh, I seem to get plenty of replies from you, Smoky m'boy. Sorry your shield style got nerfed. I'm not exactly chuffed about what I'm hearing about Adula's Moonblade, either

Not my style I do not use any of that crud. Rogue 1 baby. Point is that tali really does not provide any benefit prior to nerf except of the most op shields. You fail to even acknowledge shield testing, which you would know most npcs will cut your stamina bar entirely in a couple hits if you're only using normal shield play, and not any of that op nonsense.

Just the fact alone you ppl think you justify anything you say with three words or less is proof enough to me that I will certainly not bother sharing reality with you guys further.

Prove to me harder that none of you know how anything works ever. Thanks in advance. xD

[Grampire]

It's pretty hilarious reading these responses about how glad they are this Tali was nerfed so they don't have to see the Fingerprint shield in PvP anymore when this nerf basically ensures the FP shield is now undisputibly the best physical damage shield in the game for PvP.

Publicado originalmente por jasonbarron:

Rolling takes skill. Shields do not.

Basking the screen with your days worth of iframes so dragons, grabs and magic spells do zero damage is the ultimate test of skill, let me tell you. From enjoys making its players somersault like 4th graders in PE class because that's the ultimate in badassery.

Publicado originalmente por Dr.Abscondus:

You don't need it. You can't fight bosses hiding behind a shield. They're useful for standard mobs, but were never intended for boss fights. The best players I've seen taking down bosses don't use shields at all. When you use a shield you're giving up the power of a two handed strike and the full power of your weapon skill.

This is wrong and it's likely still wrong after the nerf.

Every boss on my achievement list except fire giant was taken down with a shield as a pure STR/END build, and it's not matter of "hold L1 and press L2 and take zero damage."

The better overall fix for this would've been to increase stamina drain when attacking with your shield raised. That could've applied to everything and would've been a harsher nerf. As this is now and after testing, shields still work great and will still ♥♥♥♥ on people in PvP.

[jasonbarron]

Publicado originalmente por Grampire:

It's pretty hilarious reading these responses about how glad they are this Tali was nerfed so they don't have to see the Fingerprint shield in PvP anymore when this nerf basically ensures the FP shield is now undisputibly the best physical damage shield in the game for PvP.

Publicado originalmente por jasonbarron:

Rolling takes skill. Shields do not.

Basking the screen with your days worth of iframes so dragons, grabs and magic spells do zero damage is the ultimate test of skill, let me tell you. From enjoys making its players somersault like 4th graders in PE class because that's the ultimate in badassery.

Publicado originalmente por Dr.Abscondus:

You don't need it. You can't fight bosses hiding behind a shield. They're useful for standard mobs, but were never intended for boss fights. The best players I've seen taking down bosses don't use shields at all. When you use a shield you're giving up the power of a two handed strike and the full power of your weapon skill.

This is wrong and it's likely still wrong after the nerf.

Every boss on my achievement list except fire giant was taken down with a shield as a pure STR/END build, and it's not matter of "hold L1 and press L2 and take zero damage."

The better overall fix for this would've been to increase stamina drain when attacking with your shield raised. That could've applied to everything and would've been a harsher nerf. As this is now and after testing, shields still work great and will still ♥♥♥♥ on people in PvP.

It isn't "press L1 and take no damage?" Setting aside that anyone who played this game more than a handful of hours groks that the idea behind a shield is to hold it up so that you can hide from your enemy, what exactly is the case for them being "skill based?"

Edit: I decided to walk back my comments a little bit about shields being casual mode. The people using dinner plate size bucklers to parry bosses, that does actually require some skill to pull off on a regular basis

[Baron01]

This nerf is another example when PvP balancing wrecks PvE. 99% guard boost in PvE was not a problem, noone has ever killed even a single monster by holding block forever. This was clearly a problem in PvP so Fromsoft took out the hammer.

Problem is that this nerf does not change much for Fingerprint Shield users. It is still best shield for blocking any and all kind of damage. The real victim is a Greatshield Talisman that is largely pointless since it provides very little benefit at low guard boost and is nerfed at high values. Who exactly is going to use it now?

[Kada]

You still have 90 stability, deal with it, that's barely a nerf and it was needed anyway

[13R0KEN]

Publicado originalmente por Baron01:

This nerf is another example when PvP balancing wrecks PvE. 99% guard boost in PvE was not a problem, noone has ever killed even a single monster by holding block forever. This was clearly a problem in PvP so Fromsoft took out the hammer.

Problem is that this nerf does not change much for Fingerprint Shield users. It is still best shield for blocking any and all kind of damage. The real victim is a Greatshield Talisman that is largely pointless since it provides very little benefit at low guard boost and is nerfed at high values. Who exactly is going to use it now?

Publicado originalmente por Kada:

You still have 90 stability, deal with it, that's barely a nerf and it was needed anyway

[Baron01]

Publicado originalmente por Kada:

You still have 90 stability, deal with it, that's barely a nerf and it was needed anyway

You might have impaired reading or comprehension. I'm not complaining about Fingerprint Shield. I'm a bit sad another talisman will go to "Sort chest" and never be used again.

PvE will not change at all. I will still be able to block pretty much everything, the same way I did before. If nothing changes here, why was this nerf done in first place?

If Fromsoft nerfed Greatshield Talisman for high guard boost gear, they should have improved it for low end to compensate.

[LeniuPL]

Yeah it was OP, but fun :)
It wasn't GOD mode though, you can see in my vid @ 2:05 I got hit twice while holding block all that time :

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2796937199

[Grampire]

Publicado originalmente por jasonbarron:

Publicado originalmente por Grampire:

It's pretty hilarious reading these responses about how glad they are this Tali was nerfed so they don't have to see the Fingerprint shield in PvP anymore when this nerf basically ensures the FP shield is now undisputibly the best physical damage shield in the game for PvP.



Basking the screen with your days worth of iframes so dragons, grabs and magic spells do zero damage is the ultimate test of skill, let me tell you. From enjoys making its players somersault like 4th graders in PE class because that's the ultimate in badassery.



This is wrong and it's likely still wrong after the nerf.

Every boss on my achievement list except fire giant was taken down with a shield as a pure STR/END build, and it's not matter of "hold L1 and press L2 and take zero damage."

The better overall fix for this would've been to increase stamina drain when attacking with your shield raised. That could've applied to everything and would've been a harsher nerf. As this is now and after testing, shields still work great and will still ♥♥♥♥ on people in PvP.

It isn't "press L1 and take no damage?" Setting aside that anyone who played this game more than a handful of hours groks that the idea behind a shield is to hold it up so that you can hide from your enemy, what exactly is the case for them being "skill based?"

Edit: I decided to walk back my comments a little bit about shields being casual mode. The people using dinner plate size bucklers to parry bosses, that does actually require some skill to pull off on a regular basis

Taking no damage is one benefit sure, others include:

1. holding position
   
2. deflecting attack for mini stagger
   
3. overpowering opponent at close range
   
4. preventing your attack from being interrupted
   
5. guard counters to break stance

Blocking is an option that gives the user a more active defense option than rolling, losing control of your character during the roll while you travel in that direction, and hoping your opponent doesn't adjust so you can take a turn at the end.

Rolling feels like ♥♥♥♥ and basically is the equivalent of discarding a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ card in the hopes that the next one provides something better, whereas blocking is you taking a better card.

[Argonaut]

Publicado originalmente por Scoobydoo wr r u:

Publicado originalmente por Farkus:

You're still going have incredible blocking potential on large shields and smaller shields seem to be unaffected. As for the 100 stability fingerprint stone shield, this was needed. It was absolute cancer in PVP and basically played the game for you in PVE.

For the absolute Endurance & Strength stat cost it was sensible. You had to sacrifice armor & levels for any other stats hugely to use fingerprint shield.

You don't understand. It made you invincible. The cost price effectiveness of invincibility doesn't matter because you are invincible.

The change is great. Greatshields are still good but you can't cheese them to play the game for you.

[Shiggieb00]

This change was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ retarded. I dont understand why they keep forcing everyone in to playing exactly the same ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ way..

I have beaten the game. I am done. I dont feel like running around with 2 colossal greatswords looking like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥. So I use a giant ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shield and I want to play co op, be summoned in, and tank bosses for people.. Can I do this? No.. Because the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ loser ass pvp-tards ♥♥♥♥♥ and whine about everything and pretty soon everything has to be their way because they just dont shut the ♥♥♥♥ up.

This change was solely implemented to please the ♥♥♥♥ in the pvp community. Again, ♥♥♥♥ them. Thanks for ruining another aspect of the game. Now again, a huge chunk of the population cant play how they want because.. reasons.

[Grampire]

Publicado originalmente por Argonaut:

Publicado originalmente por Scoobydoo wr r u:

For the absolute Endurance & Strength stat cost it was sensible. You had to sacrifice armor & levels for any other stats hugely to use fingerprint shield.

You don't understand. It made you invincible. The cost price effectiveness of invincibility doesn't matter because you are invincible.

The change is great. Greatshields are still good but you can't cheese them to play the game for you.

I have to say, the change has been almost unnoticeable.

With a few gameplay adjustments it's still very, very easy to block everything. Greatshields and tank straps are still hugely viable.

[Marmo]

Publicado originalmente por Slapmaster:

I'm sorry the revelation that you will actually have to play the game now is a bit much for you. Rolling has always been the better option anyway, and actually should be always.

sorry but as a Souls veteran i got sick of "roll only" in Souls games quite a while ago, specially after Sekiro got rid of it.

There was nothing more satisfying for me than blocking Maliketh's bull ♥♥♥♥♥ with Fingerprint. Guilty as charged :D

Next game they don't come up with something new other than rolls and shields though, i don't even think i'm gonna bother playing it.