What is your opinion on Spirit Ashes?

[DaniTheHero]

I hope we can keep this discussion Civil, Constructive and NOT toxic.

I personally hate the Spirit Ashes.
This is obviously a poor design choice by FromSoftware. They designed the game AROUND Spirit Ashes to begin with, which is why a lot of the content, unless you fully explore and overlevel, IS relatively tougher to beat than previous games in some way.
So you are pushed into using these Spirit Ashes to gain a slight edge, only problem is that the majority of these Spirit Ashes, especially when you level them up a bit completely, break the game.
Most of them later on, are literally able to solo bosses to 1/3 or even 1/2 of their HP without you even properly intervening. This is pretty much you moving a slider to remove 30-50% of boss HP from encounters. Absurd.

I hate being that guy, but it's so disappointing that many people that stayed a way from Souls games their entire lives and then did attempt Elden Ring due to the mainstream hype of it (Which is fantastic), but then resulted in not just using Spirit of Ashes but RELYING on them to pretty much use them on every boss encounter and almost every open world encounter that allows them to, completely Trivializing the game.

They are essentially turning a game that is very beatable and designed to be beatable as a solo experience (I'd add the exception of DUO boss fights, such as the Gargoyles), into an offline COOP that does NOT buff the enemies in return.

This entire decade, people kept making fun of the whole idea of an "Easy mode" for Souls games, and literally memefied the idea when Sekiro came out and Journalists complained about it being "too hard", yet Spirit Ashes are literally a switch to make the game FAR easier to a point where we are practically not playing the same game anymore.

People call it Gatekeeping, but it's really not what it's all about.
So far the Souls playerbase was a sort of tight community. When we beat the game, we go through the same experience albeit with slightly different builds and playstyles. But when I beat Elden Ring, and a perma Spirit Ashes user beats Elden ring, we have played an entirely different game. Our experience is no longer really similar and it ruins this sense of achievement and universal experience these games used to provide.

How IS this different than a difficulty slider?

There's of course other changes that were made to appeal to a wider audience, but I wanted to focus on Spirit Ashes specifically as I feel they were the worse offender.

[NisseDood]

Ds3 butchered more things than er did already.
Also just dont use them. They are single player only so it doesnt matter.

[MadCrabPrime]

Its in the game if they want to use it let them use it. The developers put it in here for reason. If you don't want to use it go ahead. But I really don't see the problem. Remember they have to get to the bosses, and survive during the bosses. In my opinion it rewards exploration for you need to find the catacombs and underground rivers to properly level them up to be of use.

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by NisseDood:

Ds3 butchered more things than er did already.

I'd argue it's just a downwards spiral. DS3 still did more things right than it did wrong.
I can't say the same for Elden Ring sadly.

But I won't go into "review" mode here, my gripe in this post is specifically about the Spirits.

[MingQWERTY]

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

Originally posted by NisseDood:

Ds3 butchered more things than er did already.

I'd argue it's just a downwards spiral. DS3 still did more things right than it did wrong.
I can't say the same for Elden Ring sadly.

But I won't go into "review" mode here, my gripe in this post is specifically about the Spirits.

Honestly you could kinda blame Bloodborne and Sekiro. It basically made FromSoft think that fast bosses are the way to go and that rolling is the best way to dodge attacks. FromSoft went into a 'arms race' with themselves in this regard.

[Old Man Gamer (OMG)]

I like the Spirit Ashes. They have really cool designs and it is fun to watch them. I have only dabbled in them, but I plan on actually using them more eventually. As I progress through the New Journey+++++, I expect that they will become rather essential. Only one way to find out.

[Mad Hawaiian]

I think they are a great addition, those who don't need them, probably won't use them. Those that do, will.

It helps people beat the game, which increases word of mouth promoting better sales. As a person who wants more FromSoft games, increased sales is always a good thing.

[NisseDood]

Only gripe I got with them is that there are to many of them and they are overall boring rewards.

[NisseDood]

Originally posted by MarkQWERTY:

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

I'd argue it's just a downwards spiral. DS3 still did more things right than it did wrong.
I can't say the same for Elden Ring sadly.

But I won't go into "review" mode here, my gripe in this post is specifically about the Spirits.

Honestly you could kinda blame Bloodborne and Sekiro. It basically made FromSoft think that fast bosses are the way to go and that rolling is the best way to dodge attacks. FromSoft went into a 'arms race' with themselves in this regard.

Takes bb combat.
Forget to take what made bb combat work.

[Toad]

I like them. The sheer amount of variety you have access to can make fights really interesting. Obviously the Mimic Tear was way too overpowered pre-patch, so I think that was a good correction. I love the joke entries like the Wandering Noble. Makes for some fun situations.

If using Spirit Ashes got people more used to the combat and gave them more room for mistakes, I'm all for it. The previous games still exist, Elden Ring doesn't invalidate them. Only people who see the completion of these games as a 'badge of honour' would ever think someone else using an easier strategy 'cheapens' their own separate experience.

[Noeat]

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

I hope we can keep this discussion Civil, Constructive and NOT toxic.

hopefully

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

I personally hate the Spirit Ashes.
This is obviously a poor design choice by FromSoftware.

and you kill it right at beginning by your toxicity and elitism when you wasnt able stay civil even first few words.. nor constructive.

shame

anyway, you are not pushed to use them..
you just lacks skill.. you are not used to challenging games.. it is not fail of ER.. but your own. im fine with difficulty.. its not that hard or fast as Nioh, but still better than DS games

then again, not fail of spirits when you are bad and need them.

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by thatinsaneperson:

Its in the game if they want to use it let them use it. The developers put it in here for reason. If you don't want to use it go ahead. But I really don't see the problem. Remember they have to get to the bosses, and survive during the bosses. In my opinion it rewards exploration for you need to find the catacombs and underground rivers to properly level them up to be of use.

I mean there's a Grace literally everywhere, in a lot of places they are a few minutes away from each other and like in every souls game, in almost every area you can just run around ignoring enemies without fighting.

And I did say I have an issue with FromSoftware implementing the Spirits to begin with. If they weren't there, the "If they want to use them, they should" argument wouldn't be relevant. They are in their core a pure design choice unless you were intending to make the game easier, because now the default position IS to use them, and you have to actively choose and restrict yourself NOT to use them to get a more vanilla experience.

[MingQWERTY]

I like their addition into the game. It makes the difficulty much more versatile and thus makes the game more accessible so that more people can get into a souls game. But I think they are poorly balance (like most of the stuff in the game). Of like the 74 spirit ashes there are, only like a handful of them are 'good' and some are just out right broken like Mimic or Tiche. So like, what's the point of like 50-60 of them if they're not as good as these? No one will use them.

Edit: I also want to mention a certain boss that heals every time she hits you or your summon. I think this is a great addition as summons could have a pro and con. If you summon your ashes everywhere else for any other bosses, the enemy gets demolished because there's really no disadvantage to spirit ashes. From should have added like stuff to each bosses to counter spirit ashes.

[NisseDood]

As many ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gank bosses this game got spirits are fine

[DaniTheHero]

Originally posted by Noeat:

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

I hope we can keep this discussion Civil, Constructive and NOT toxic.

hopefully

Originally posted by DaniTheHero:

I personally hate the Spirit Ashes.
This is obviously a poor design choice by FromSoftware.

and you kill it right at beginning by your toxicity and elitism when you wasnt able stay civil even first few words.. nor constructive.

shame

Saying I hate a feature as my personal opinion and think it was a mistake for the Developers to add them somehow makes the discussion toxic?

How else is there going to be a debate/discussion if there won't be an expression of what is my opinion?

[Krakers]

I like spirit summons, and I think it is one of the nicest and most fresh idea that ER introduced. If you do not like them then do not use them.

As for me complaining about "game being designed about them" (or at least some boss fights) is like complaining that the game was designed around dodging/rolling. It is somebody's preference to hinder themselves and not to use all tools provided by devs (so as for me it is obvious that the game is significantly harder without the summons). After all, many people look at ER like it is DS4, but despite many similarities it is not DS4, so it doesn't have to follow the same rules nor the same design choices as DS series.