advantages for host and invaders

[StarlightAsh♡]

host advantages:
2 summons, possible blue spawn, summons can be any level meaning there can be a couple hundred level difference between them and the invader.
mobs are useless, easy to dodge and often easy to kill.
Great runes
More flask uses
always has the pressure, meaning the invader needs to watch their footing and know the map while the host does not.
enter boss room to kick invader wasting their time.
gank squads sitting there waiting for invaders, having precleared all the mobs taking away the sole advantage invaders somewhat have.

Invader advantages:
mobs don't intentionally hit you (for many mobs the aoe hits can still hit you)

I want to make it abundantly clear to people who somehow believe that the invader has the advantage that that is not the case and I don't know how you have come to that conclusion.

Unlike other souls games where you could find a 1v1 as an invader, that is essentially impossible in elden ring unless the host specifically is looking to duel invaders.

[StarlightAsh♡]

Originally posted by ReBootXD:

As an invader, we have 2 more advantages.

Experience, we have spent much more time pvping and have truly learned the ins and outs of what can be countered, punished, and painful.

Preparedness, our experience has given us knowledge of what to expect in invasions. This allows us to plan for any encounter we might have, and counter most play-styles.

yeah but that also is a disadvantage in a sense because it gatekeeps newer players from trying to enjoy pvp to see if they like it, they'll just get beat into the ground because they don't have experience.

[Old Captain Yon]

Invaders have 1 major advantage: they are specifically prepared for PvP, their whole build is optimised for fighting tarnished. This is why if I get summoned as a gold or blue, I usually get squashed on 1vs1 with an invader, especially at lower levels: I am not good at hard-swaps and have a build with PvE in mind. This is why gank hosts and taunter tongue hosts are harder for me to fight as an invader, too - they EXPECT PvP and have their build suited for PvP, which nullifies this significant advantage.

[ramattis]

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

Invaders have 1 major advantage: they are specifically prepared for PvP, their whole build is optimised for fighting tarnished. This is why if I get summoned as a gold or blue, I usually get squashed on 1vs1 with an invader, especially at lower levels: I am not good at hard-swaps and have a build with PvE in mind. This is why gank hosts and taunter tongue hosts are harder for me to fight as an invader, too - they EXPECT PvP and have their build suited for PvP, which nullifies this significant advantage.

Not really sure why any of that matters. Hosts and golds should ALWAYS expect pvp because summoning is the only way invasions are triggered (besides solo TT of course but that's irrelevant to the discussion). Blues should ALWAYS expect pvp because they only get summoned when an invader is already present.

Edit: added closing parenthesis to second sentence.

[Old Captain Yon]

Originally posted by ramattis:

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

Invaders have 1 major advantage: they are specifically prepared for PvP, their whole build is optimised for fighting tarnished. This is why if I get summoned as a gold or blue, I usually get squashed on 1vs1 with an invader, especially at lower levels: I am not good at hard-swaps and have a build with PvE in mind. This is why gank hosts and taunter tongue hosts are harder for me to fight as an invader, too - they EXPECT PvP and have their build suited for PvP, which nullifies this significant advantage.

Not really sure why any of that matters. Hosts and golds should ALWAYS expect pvp because summoning is the only way invasions are triggered (besides solo TT of course but that's irrelevant to the discussion. Blues should ALWAYS expect pvp because they only get summoned when an invader is already present.

No I mean the following: I have Golden Effigy and Blue ring pretty much always on while doing PvE. If I get summoned, I can hard-swap a weapon for boss but if I am summoned and there are angry invaders, I will fight them with my PvE build. However if I am invading, I have all necessary PvP talismans, weapons etc set up, even my Flask is made with PvP in mind. And regarding invasion frequency, we usually get invaded in coop like 20% of the time, both at lvl 20 and lvl 138. It is really not much.

[Duchess Thy Strength]

How could you forget?
- Invades know the direction where the host is. The hosts don't know where the invader is
- Invaders can relocate 3 times
- Invaders invade prepared with PvP weapons, spells, talismans. Hosts are prepared for PvE in this regard (GitGud won't change much)

[Wushiba]

Invader also has the advantage of a pvp spec and that they can blow all of their cooldowns and then just go home if they fail their attack.

[StarlightAsh♡]

Originally posted by Duchess Thy Strength:

How could you forget?
- Invades know the direction where the host is. The hosts don't know where the invader is
- Invaders can relocate 3 times
- Invaders invade prepared with PvP weapons, spells, talismans. Hosts are prepared for PvE in this regard (GitGud won't change much)

If you cannot see an invader coming from 10 lightyears away from you you might need to consider glasses.
relocating is just to get closer, it has no utility purpose in basically any scenario.
any build can be used for pvp, pve focused builds can also be used in pvp, it barely makes a difference if you know what you're running with

[Old Captain Yon]

Originally posted by StarlightAsh♡:

Originally posted by Duchess Thy Strength:

How could you forget?
- Invades know the direction where the host is. The hosts don't know where the invader is
- Invaders can relocate 3 times
- Invaders invade prepared with PvP weapons, spells, talismans. Hosts are prepared for PvE in this regard (GitGud won't change much)

If you cannot see an invader coming from 10 lightyears away from you you might need to consider glasses.
relocating is just to get closer, it has no utility purpose in basically any scenario.
any build can be used for pvp, pve focused builds can also be used in pvp, it barely makes a difference if you know what you're running with

This is a double edged sword. I sometimes do "stealth" invasions (using Trick Mirror and Veil) and even backstabbed hosts a couple of times. It is preparedness and mind play. Hosts expect bad red man, not a rock-like crooked shadow that isn't even visible from far away

[StarlightAsh♡]

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

Originally posted by StarlightAsh♡:

If you cannot see an invader coming from 10 lightyears away from you you might need to consider glasses.
relocating is just to get closer, it has no utility purpose in basically any scenario.
any build can be used for pvp, pve focused builds can also be used in pvp, it barely makes a difference if you know what you're running with

This is a double edged sword. I sometimes do "stealth" invasions (using Trick Mirror and Veil) and even backstabbed hosts a couple of times. It is preparedness and mind play. Hosts expect bad red man, not a rock-like crooked shadow that isn't even visible from far away

That is extremely case specific though, I have almost never seen anyone actually doing a stealth build

[ramattis]

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

Originally posted by ramattis:

Not really sure why any of that matters. Hosts and golds should ALWAYS expect pvp because summoning is the only way invasions are triggered (besides solo TT of course but that's irrelevant to the discussion. Blues should ALWAYS expect pvp because they only get summoned when an invader is already present.

No I mean the following: I have Golden Effigy and Blue ring pretty much always on while doing PvE. If I get summoned, I can hard-swap a weapon for boss but if I am summoned and there are angry invaders, I will fight them with my PvE build. However if I am invading, I have all necessary PvP talismans, weapons etc set up, even my Flask is made with PvP in mind. And regarding invasion frequency, we usually get invaded in coop like 20% of the time, both at lvl 20 and lvl 138. It is really not much.

Yeah that's a good point, carry on.

[Duchess Thy Strength]

Originally posted by StarlightAsh♡:

Originally posted by Duchess Thy Strength:

How could you forget?
- Invades know the direction where the host is. The hosts don't know where the invader is
- Invaders can relocate 3 times
- Invaders invade prepared with PvP weapons, spells, talismans. Hosts are prepared for PvE in this regard (GitGud won't change much)

If you cannot see an invader coming from 10 lightyears away from you you might need to consider glasses.
relocating is just to get closer, it has no utility purpose in basically any scenario.
any build can be used for pvp, pve focused builds can also be used in pvp, it barely makes a difference if you know what you're running with

How can a host know where the invader spawns?

[StarlightAsh♡]

Originally posted by Duchess Thy Strength:

Originally posted by StarlightAsh♡:

If you cannot see an invader coming from 10 lightyears away from you you might need to consider glasses.
relocating is just to get closer, it has no utility purpose in basically any scenario.
any build can be used for pvp, pve focused builds can also be used in pvp, it barely makes a difference if you know what you're running with

How can a host know where the invader spawns?

Sound, looking around, and you have 2 bodyguards, I don't see how this is an invader bonus

[Old Captain Yon]

Originally posted by StarlightAsh♡:

Originally posted by Old Captain Yon:

This is a double edged sword. I sometimes do "stealth" invasions (using Trick Mirror and Veil) and even backstabbed hosts a couple of times. It is preparedness and mind play. Hosts expect bad red man, not a rock-like crooked shadow that isn't even visible from far away

That is extremely case specific though, I have almost never seen anyone actually doing a stealth build

Funnily enough, almost every invader build is case-specific. It is focused in itself. When I do PvE, I try to make my build as versatile as possible for facing threats from any region of DLC and base game, and every boss. Low level, it is same. I got summoned for Morgott at lvl 15 once! And we did it. When I prepare myself for PvP, I do not aim for versatility, I aim for efficiency. Not a swiss army knife, but a machete (or a huge club). Be it stealth, pot build, whip build, AoW area stunlock build, spell oneshot build, Ruptured tears etc. Can a man with a huge club build a birdhouse, then help his buddy open his can, then open up his own PC to fix some stuff? Hell no. But I know that when I am facing I guy with a club while only having my swiss army knife, I probably gonna lose

[Duchess Thy Strength]

Originally posted by StarlightAsh♡:

Originally posted by Duchess Thy Strength:

How can a host know where the invader spawns?

Sound, looking around, and you have 2 bodyguards, I don't see how this is an invader bonus

yeah. no.

[StarlightAsh♡]

Originally posted by Duchess Thy Strength:

Originally posted by StarlightAsh♡:

Sound, looking around, and you have 2 bodyguards, I don't see how this is an invader bonus

yeah. no.

That is literally how you can spot invaders, I don't know why your response would be "no" to how this works