Radahn's second phase is the worst boss fight I have ever experienced!

[Pecata]

The second phase of Radahn in the DLC is possibly the worst boss fight ever designed. Did anyone even bother testing this travesty?! 50% of the time I fight horrible camera and the other 40% is blinding light effects that obstruct wtf is the boss doing so you can get hit. This is trash! 10% is what actualy Radahn is doing, which btw is way too extreme, there is barely any window to attack him and on top of that he has attacks you cannot dodge/avoid, so it will drain your health no matter what. Not to mention the inescapable garbage ''throw''. How is this a good boss design???
P.S I finally beat his a$$! I can't believe there is no achievement for that...what an unpleasant boss fight.

[Jingo]

In fairness a lot of bosses in elden ring suffer from AOE spams and light-tricks that makes them enfuriating to time. Sure repetition will help to get a rythm but few and far between are the bosses that will get up and close in a way that does not rely on covering half the map with crap.

[EF_Neo1st]

Originally posted by Haru:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Again it isn't, you can only get 2 none of which do much. compared to the massive army you get for the base game.

The poison dude isn't even a good meat shield. Waterflow dance has some tight timing but is doable second phase is just annoying to even go up against or keep track. There players who summon as a shield role only. The second phase just plain sucks.

It's a pretty weak army aside from Blaidd, from what I've seen, though I wouldn't really know since I've never used NPCs in Elden Ring to kill a boss. But I agree that from what I've seen of the NPCs that you can use for Consort Radahn, they're still pretty bad, and not worth using even as far as NPCs go.

If players depend too much on summons to deal with a lot of their issues, then they shouldn't be too surprised when the end game super boss squashes their crutch tbqh.

I had beaten Radahn (not Consort) at NG+ again with another char, Radah did not even had time to become a meteor, died while charging his jump (yes, I had already finished the whole game but had not done Radahn) tho if I was to do Radahn with a +6 weapon on a not so strong char it would have a stage 2 (that also would be short anyway) even solo too.
Radahn there is just a "spectacle" if you summon the NPCs and watch it but honestly the NPCs take so long to kill Radahn it is faster to skip the fight by just killing it yourself.
Consort is just a seizure inducing crap that should not exist.
Sister Friede 3rd stage and Gael, Even Midir, Radagon . . . hell, I could not think I would say good of it but even Elden Beast is how "a show is done", how a "spectacle of a fight" is done, Consort Radahn is just crap.

All these lights could very well be short from the ground and not covering whole screen, also his moves did not need to be "all with AoEs" neither he needed the "Guy 8 gates technique at Minato teleportation speed" wher eyou either dodge when radahn is far in the diistance or you are screwed aand doomed to take the full combo to the face and die.

[EF_Neo1st]

And yes one of my last tries I tried to stick close to radahn and I saw that "Guy 8 gates technique at Minato teleportation speed" where Radahn "teleports a long distance right to the player" if you just roll being close to Radahn when he wil use it you just dodge it all instead of having to use multiple dodges to avoid part of the damage or the whole multihit attack (so yes it is just 1 single attack) and Radahn ends up far away when I did it.

All while also releasing a lightshow at the faace of the player making it disgusting if you dont do that (being upclose and rolling into him).
It is unnecessary crap there.

[Bankai9212]

Most use a mimic tear to simply pull aggro, its not a matter of it being a crutch they are tools the games provide if someone feels like they need too. The summons are worthless in the DLC fight so why bother placing them there? Most will attempt mimic tear and see the second phase will just wreck them completely. So most summon actual people something that raises boss def or health which is never a good thing.

[ZeTyphoonArmada]

He is easy with the right build. I summoned a guy with verdigris set, a great shield, a thrusting knife with bleed. I watched him eat all his attacks and kill him solo.

There's was no point in me helping lol. So now i'm leveling up to use that set in my next runs.

[Jingo]

Originally posted by ZeTyphoonArmada:

He is easy with the right build. I summoned a guy with verdigris set, a great shield, a thrusting knife with bleed. I watched him eat all his attacks and kill him solo.

There's was no point in me helping lol. So now i'm leveling up to use that set in my next runs.

You can beat him in less than 10 seconds with the right build. Golden Vow/Howl of Shabiri/self inflicted bloodloss and madness. Lightning attack raising talismans and the rolling sparks lightning flasks.

They do over 52k damage in quick succession with the right doomstack. But it's less about skill and game knowledge at that point.

I think the real issue with most elden ring bosses is they are designed mostly for multiplayer and in that one regard I think they are great.

For solo it is an absolute pain unless you are either running cheese builds or magic.

[Haru]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Most use a mimic tear to simply pull aggro, its not a matter of it being a crutch they are tools the games provide if someone feels like they need too. The summons are worthless in the DLC fight so why bother placing them there? Most will attempt mimic tear and see the second phase will just wreck them completely. So most summon actual people something that raises boss def or health which is never a good thing.

I mean sure, they're a crutch that the game provides. A crutch is also a tool.

Not all things are going to work in all situations and it's not surprising that the end -end- boss of the entire game is going to punch out what's quite possibly the easiest to use tool in the entire game.

I would argue that it's 'easier' to fight a boss with increased damage and damage mitigation if the people you summon know what they're doing. The extra health and damage does not amount for much when the people in your party are more than compensating for it. More often than not, the host pulls their weight the least - partly due to the risk factor of their own health bar taking priority over summoned phantom's but a lot of them are just bad, want a carry, but don't understand 10% of the boss mechanics, or build poorly because they don't understand that they're playing an RPG.

I suppose a tip for using a mimic or something similar in this fight would be not to waste it in phase one. Ring the bell the moment he starts floating, then take the AoE damage, see if there's enough time to escape, or block the brunt of it with a shield. I'd rather have the extra help around for phase two, since phase one is honestly barely a b-tier fight.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Jingo:

Originally posted by ZeTyphoonArmada:

He is easy with the right build. I summoned a guy with verdigris set, a great shield, a thrusting knife with bleed. I watched him eat all his attacks and kill him solo.

There's was no point in me helping lol. So now i'm leveling up to use that set in my next runs.

You can beat him in less than 10 seconds with the right build. Golden Vow/Howl of Shabiri/self inflicted bloodloss and madness. Lightning attack raising talismans and the rolling sparks lightning flasks.

They do over 52k damage in quick succession with the right doomstack. But it's less about skill and game knowledge at that point.

I think the real issue with most elden ring bosses is they are designed mostly for multiplayer and in that one regard I think they are great.

For solo it is an absolute pain unless you are either running cheese builds or magic.

The issue with that is that the MP while still healthy will die down eventually leaving players to use cheap builds in order to beat him. If the NPC summons you could summon were worth anything you'd have a point. Heck st. Trina applying some sort of sleep would make it a decent gimmick fight.

[Pecata]

I was able to finally beat his a$$. I can't believe there is no achievement for beating him. That is just insulting.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Haru:

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Most use a mimic tear to simply pull aggro, its not a matter of it being a crutch they are tools the games provide if someone feels like they need too. The summons are worthless in the DLC fight so why bother placing them there? Most will attempt mimic tear and see the second phase will just wreck them completely. So most summon actual people something that raises boss def or health which is never a good thing.

I mean sure, they're a crutch that the game provides. A crutch is also a tool.

Not all things are going to work in all situations and it's not surprising that the end -end- boss of the entire game is going to punch out what's quite possibly the easiest to use tool in the entire game.

I would argue that it's 'easier' to fight a boss with increased damage and damage mitigation if the people you summon know what they're doing. The extra health and damage does not amount for much when the people in your party are more than compensating for it. More often than not, the host pulls their weight the least - partly due to the risk factor of their own health bar taking priority over summoned phantom's but a lot of them are just bad, want a carry, but don't understand 10% of the boss mechanics, or build poorly because they don't understand that they're playing an RPG.

I suppose a tip for using a mimic or something similar in this fight would be not to waste it in phase one. Ring the bell the moment he starts floating, then take the AoE damage, see if there's enough time to escape, or block the brunt of it with a shield. I'd rather have the extra help around for phase two, since phase one is honestly barely a b-tier fight.

It's not a crutch all the spirit ashes are there for the player to use, the devs expect the player to use them.

It's not a matter of something working some builds will have an easier or hard time but as long as the encounter is well designed all builds can work. The second phase isn't fun regardless of build. I know with the right players bosses can be a joke but most don't want to deal with the health increase. Most are with this fight specifically if a poll was made.

Summoning in the second phase doesn't man it would survive an onslaught of attacks if you could even spawn it before getting hit.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Pecata:

I was able to finally beat his a$$. I can't believe there is no achievement for beating him. That is just insulting.

I mean none of the fights give achievements none were added with the dlc.

[ZeTyphoonArmada]

Originally posted by Pecata:

I was able to finally beat his a$$. I can't believe there is no achievement for beating him. That is just insulting.

Dude congrats!

[ScootBoot69420]

Originally posted by toughnails:

Originally posted by Pecata:

he has attacks you cannot dodge/avoid

That's just not true, every single attack can be dodged:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE31NW1Njyk
Git gud.

The 3 hit cross sweep begs to differ. "erm well if you use this ash/talisman etc you can" Nope. that timing is so pinpoint and that attack comes out so fast that by the time you see it youre already down a quarter of your health.
Is it avoidable? Yeah sure. Is it fun ir well designed? ♥♥♥♥ no.

"get good" quit using it to avoid genuine critisism you knave.
Sure maybe the statement isnt 100% true but in most cases a normal roll isnt enough to dodge that attack, thats the point thats being made.

And you know whats funny? The guy who made that guide outright states the boss is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, so it still doesnt really help your point!

[Haru]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Originally posted by Haru:

I mean sure, they're a crutch that the game provides. A crutch is also a tool.

Not all things are going to work in all situations and it's not surprising that the end -end- boss of the entire game is going to punch out what's quite possibly the easiest to use tool in the entire game.

I would argue that it's 'easier' to fight a boss with increased damage and damage mitigation if the people you summon know what they're doing. The extra health and damage does not amount for much when the people in your party are more than compensating for it. More often than not, the host pulls their weight the least - partly due to the risk factor of their own health bar taking priority over summoned phantom's but a lot of them are just bad, want a carry, but don't understand 10% of the boss mechanics, or build poorly because they don't understand that they're playing an RPG.

I suppose a tip for using a mimic or something similar in this fight would be not to waste it in phase one. Ring the bell the moment he starts floating, then take the AoE damage, see if there's enough time to escape, or block the brunt of it with a shield. I'd rather have the extra help around for phase two, since phase one is honestly barely a b-tier fight.

It's not a crutch all the spirit ashes are there for the player to use, the devs expect the player to use them.

It's not a matter of something working some builds will have an easier or hard time but as long as the encounter is well designed all builds can work. The second phase isn't fun regardless of build. I know with the right players bosses can be a joke but most don't want to deal with the health increase. Most are with this fight specifically if a poll was made.

Summoning in the second phase doesn't man it would survive an onslaught of attacks if you could even spawn it before getting hit.

Couple of things.

Nobody, especially not me, has ever stated "the developers added this thing to the game but DON'T want you to use them". That's asinine. And entirely irrelevant as to how that impacts the experience of the game or the encounters in it.

No boss fight in this game is geared for multi-target attacks or have AI to deal with multiple enemies aside from AoE spam. Distracting boss aggro trivialises a large amount of bosses. Yeah, you can use spirit ashes. Yeah, the developers added a thing you can use. But you should not be surprised when your sure fire catch all mostly brain dead tool suddenly isn't effective, especially on the final boss of the game.

This is something a lot of folks learned with Armored Core VI. There is a huge difference between 'any build being able to beat any boss' and 'you' being able to beat any boss with any build.

I've killed this five times alone, and multiple times with decent players in co-op.

And no, but summoning it in the second phase means it'll have more HP during the time you're going to want to have the boss distracted the most. It's free damage on the boss, when damaging the boss is more crucial. That first 25-30% is a loading screen by comparison, and if people need a mimic or a spirit ash to get through phase one... then it's no wonder they can't handle phase two.

[dkid00]

There's a problem with a lot of DLC bosses and visual clutter/readability. Consort Radahn specifically on the second phase (goes Super Saiyan 3), and his hair obstructs his form; this applies in general to any boss where cloth or hair physics is featured (Divine Beast Dancing Lion).

Then there are lots of large (almost whole arena) AoE attacks with flashing or lingering visuals (Bayle, Consort Radahn, Divine Beast Dancing Lion), which obscure almost everything else that's happening on screen.

Outside of the general difficulty of having to deal with a boss' attacks by dodging and getting timings right, not being able to read the general shape at a moment's notice adds in an extra frustration; it's one thing to have a boss design which features long flowing hair, but it's another thing entirely to just slap the design in and disregarding how this element would affect the encounter from a gameplay perspective.

Miyazaki says he sucks at videogames, but I hope he sees the value in testing and playing the games he works on from the perspective of the average player experience -- that is, people who are familiar and do play and beat his games.

Note: the bosses listed are just a few examples off the top of my head for illustration. I've also beaten both the base game and DLC, with a fair amount of coverage close to 100% regarding bosses and world exploration.