Anybody else come back for the DLC and found one change needless in the base game?

[Necrophoria]

Did people seriously complain enough to have Torrent added to the Elden beast fight?

I fought him twice recently after my first playthrough 2 years ago, and completely missed that this was added. The fight is still manageable, and doubly so after you learn the moves. If anything I have more issues with Radagon to get to the beast, but the beast is easy enough to dodge in my view in comparison.

I am not really sure why this was added or who really thought Torrent was needed. Yeah the fight involves a lot of running but that's such a tiny complaint that it feels nit picky.

Not going to go the "git good" route with this, but really the fight was fine on its own. Sad to see FromSoft caving in to these sorts of things. They are deviating from their original design more often than not these days with the mainstream appeal.

Hell, this seeped into their other games. Armored Core VI also got huge nerfs to certain bosses which literally made them a joke afterwards. RIP pre-nerf balteus (iykyk), base game radahn, and now the elden beast I suppose, even if optional.

[zero]

i mean probably because its a big arena with nothing in it that the boss has several moves to go to the far ends of it.

quality of life change if there ever was one.

[Dollmaker]

Torrent was added precisely cause its just a lot of unnecessary running.

The fight itself is a joke compared to Radagon, you dont really needed Torrent to make the fight easier, it just makes it less of a slog since you can chase the stupid thing a lot faster.

Also Balteus was overtuned af for how early into the game it was.

And stop with the false info on Radahn, what they nerfed was the hitboxes of his attacks, the dmg was kept the same.

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by zero:

i mean probably because its a big arena with nothing in it that the boss has several moves to go to the far ends of it.

quality of life change if there ever was one.

Yeah, but adding torrent in the mix adds more mobility than the boss was originally balanced for imo. A double jump is more than enough of a buff tied with the speed to trivialize a lot of the challenge i my view.

You can now outrun calmly the elden stars spell and easily jump over the rings on the floor.

[zero]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

Originally posted by zero:

i mean probably because its a big arena with nothing in it that the boss has several moves to go to the far ends of it.

quality of life change if there ever was one.

Yeah, but adding torrent in the mix adds more mobility than the boss was originally balanced for imo. A double jump is more than enough of a buff tied with the speed to trivialize a lot of the challenge i my view.

You can now outrun calmly the elden stars spell and easily jump over the rings on the floor.

i have never once considered any fight easier because i have torrent, if anything it was a mental "god i hope i dont have to deal with the horse"

its a good tool to get to where the fight is, but it doesn't make things easier, its just removing the time sink of walking forward and hoping the boss doesn't move again.

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Torrent was added precisely cause its just a lot of unnecessary running.

The fight itself is a joke compared to Radagon, you dont really needed Torrent to make the fight easier, it just makes it less of a slog since you can chase the stupid thing a lot faster.

Also Balteus was overtuned af for how early into the game it was.

And stop with the false info on Radahn, what they nerfed was the hitboxes of his attacks, the dmg was kept the same.

The hitbox nerf is still a nerf. Navigating the boss like a raid boss in old MMOs I think was the original idea. That is definitely no longer the case,

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

You can now outrun calmly the elden stars spell and easily jump over the rings on the floor.

You mean the spell thats hardly an issue and at best an annoyance if you decide to ignore it?

And the other isnt even hard to jump over.

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

You can now outrun calmly the elden stars spell and easily jump over the rings on the floor.

You mean the spell thats hardly an issue and at best an annoyance if you decide to ignore it?

And the other isnt even hard to jump over.

Exactly. Torrent makes those things so irrelevant that they may as well not exist at this point. Running away from the star was engaging, even if not highly damaging, and if you missed that jump, man did you feel it.

But I guess I am going off memory from my first time fighting him. I didnt know the moveset, and I felt it. It is simply fun now to fight on foot, but I guess zipping on a horse is a "QOL improvement"

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Torrent was added precisely cause its just a lot of unnecessary running.

The fight itself is a joke compared to Radagon, you dont really needed Torrent to make the fight easier, it just makes it less of a slog since you can chase the stupid thing a lot faster.

Also Balteus was overtuned af for how early into the game it was.

And stop with the false info on Radahn, what they nerfed was the hitboxes of his attacks, the dmg was kept the same.

The hitbox nerf is still a nerf. Navigating the boss like a raid boss in old MMOs I think was the original idea. That is definitely no longer the case,

This isnt an MMO, this is a game where hitboxes DO matter.

Specially cause in MMO you usually take dmg constantly that gets healed by healers.

In the Souls genre you get punished for messing up, but thats hardly fair when the hitboxes of the boss are straight up broken.

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

The hitbox nerf is still a nerf. Navigating the boss like a raid boss in old MMOs I think was the original idea. That is definitely no longer the case,

This isnt an MMO, this is a game where hitboxes DO matter.

Specially cause in MMO you usually take dmg constantly that gets healed by healers.

In the Souls genre you get punished for messing, up, but thats hardly fair when the hitboxes of the boss are straight up broken.

I still beat him back then, hitbox issue and all. The boss fight was certainly doable, but Fromsoft took a look at success rate more than likely and simply chose to please masses I guess.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

You mean the spell thats hardly an issue and at best an annoyance if you decide to ignore it?

And the other isnt even hard to jump over.

Exactly. Torrent makes those things so irrelevant that they may as well not exist at this point. Running away from the star was engaging, even if not highly damaging, and if you missed that jump, man did you feel it.

Youre in the minority here pal

One of the oldest complains this game had was with having to chase Elden Beast around constantly, it just makes the fight boring, at least with Torrent you can speed it up.

Like i said, EB is nowhere near a hard boss, if anything most of the bosses that came before it are harder, aka Godskin Duo, Placidusax, Maliketh, Godfrey, and of course, Radagon himself.

[zero]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

The hitbox nerf is still a nerf. Navigating the boss like a raid boss in old MMOs I think was the original idea. That is definitely no longer the case,

This isnt an MMO, this is a game where hitboxes DO matter.

Specially cause in MMO you usually take dmg constantly that gets healed by healers.

In the Souls genre you get punished for messing, up, but thats hardly fair when the hitboxes of the boss are straight up broken.

yeah a badly designed hitbox is a badly designed hitbox, and should obviously be fixed, thats why we even have patching in the first place, to actually balance games.

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Torrent was added precisely cause its just a lot of unnecessary running.

The fight itself is a joke compared to Radagon, you dont really needed Torrent to make the fight easier, it just makes it less of a slog since you can chase the stupid thing a lot faster.

Also Balteus was overtuned af for how early into the game it was.

And stop with the false info on Radahn, what they nerfed was the hitboxes of his attacks, the dmg was kept the same.

Also, the balteus fight was SOOOO thrilling! Like, it felt good to beat him. Pretty much the real filter after the helicopter. You needed to know how to play the game by then to beat him truly and use everything at your disposal. Overboost and all.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

This isnt an MMO, this is a game where hitboxes DO matter.

Specially cause in MMO you usually take dmg constantly that gets healed by healers.

In the Souls genre you get punished for messing, up, but thats hardly fair when the hitboxes of the boss are straight up broken.

I still beat him back then, hitbox issue and all. The boss fight was certainly doable, but Fromsoft took a look at success rate more than likely and simply chose to please masses I guess.

That isnt an argument, just cause it was possible, doesnt mean it was well designed.

The same goes ironically, for Promised Consort, a boss with an undodgable attack and constant visual clutter.

[Dollmaker]

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Torrent was added precisely cause its just a lot of unnecessary running.

The fight itself is a joke compared to Radagon, you dont really needed Torrent to make the fight easier, it just makes it less of a slog since you can chase the stupid thing a lot faster.

Also Balteus was overtuned af for how early into the game it was.

And stop with the false info on Radahn, what they nerfed was the hitboxes of his attacks, the dmg was kept the same.

Also, the balteus fight was SOOOO thrilling! Like, it felt good to beat him. Pretty much the real filter after the helicopter. You needed to know how to play the game by then to beat him truly and use everything at your disposal. Overboost and all.

Its still a challenging fight for the time of the game you fight him in.

And that game still has brutal bosses, specially towards the endgame.

[Necrophoria]

Originally posted by Dollmaker:

Originally posted by Necrophoria:

I still beat him back then, hitbox issue and all. The boss fight was certainly doable, but Fromsoft took a look at success rate more than likely and simply chose to please masses I guess.

That isnt an argument, just cause it was possible, doesnt mean it was well designed.

The same goes ironically, for Promised Consort, a boss with an undodgable attack and constant visual clutter.

Still doable. Exploit whatever you can. This is a god reborn, with one of the strongest characters in lore. I really think nerfing them is such a bad call in terms of balancing for lore purposes.

I am also not getting heated about this, so I don't see it as an argument. :)

We merely disagree and it's fine!