Hot Take: Delete Delayed Attacks

[Mister Sir]

I do feel like the game would be way more enjoyable if it had far less delayed attacks than it does right now. I know I said delete, but obviously I do not mean delete entirely, just had to make the topic title short and catchy.

The bosses in the game have two types of delays in my opinion, one is the lies of P level of bs, where the boss hold their weapon for like 100 years before releasing it at lighting speed, which can be exploited with some movement but lets be real, most people wont and it's annoying to even deal with those.

Then there the punish your punish delays, where they are not long enough for you to sneak in an attack and keep dodging, rewarding skillful playstyle, no, instead it just means to bait you into trading and losing more hp than it's worth, real cheap.

You obviously can learn timings and such, I sure have but it really dawned on me while dodging the balance spam that is consort radhan, that I really do not like having to dodge 10 attacks on a row with lingering aoe hit boxes just to possibly maybe get a chance at tickling the boss with one attack of my own and this issue really only started in Elden Ring and was not present or nearly as bad in any DS game.

This then infected other games like Lies of P where the difficulty is guessing when the ♥♥♥♥ is to dodge and honestly, it's kinda of really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying. You just spending minutes to hours learning some absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ boss that I often do not even find enjoyable anymore cause lets be real, you not going to dodge consort radhans long ass combo followed by aoe followed by spam insta teleportation that also leaves aoes that then chains into another combo right after on reaction. No, you going to have to memorize it and idk if it's just my age or lack of tolerance for bs, but I just do not like this.

Then lets look at sekiro, I am sure there must be some delayed attacks but I struggle to even name them because most of the game you deal with ♥♥♥♥ by using your reaction and skill and I do bet many would agree with me that sekiro is a low bs/ low cheese game that requires lots of skill to beat and is way more enjoyable cause of it. I am not looking how to one shot some boss there cause of how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying it is having to learn their 5-10 string attack combo just so I can possibly maybe hit them once after wards.

[Automaton-37467]

Try garfkield kart, much better and the attacks are much more telegraphed and not delayed.
You can easily dodge nermals pie with a spring and then bleed him

[Hikaru]

elden ring is for elders. these delays and knowledge checks remove reaction time from the equation and make it all based on identifying what attack is coming and then having the knowledge to press the button at the right time.

it's cool kinda? maybe? i prefer faster games but i can see why an aging developer would make the new games for old people.

[xunlaiAgent]

I do find them annoying too, but I think there is a reason why they are used: they add difficulty to the game, but the kind of difficulty that can be clearly overcame by practice. So as annoying as they are, they are fair, in a sense.

Twitch reflex based difficulty is much harder for a lot people to learn than timing, so it is generally avoided in modern game design. Even Tekken has made its throw breaks much easier, because if you aren't built for it, they are just really hard to learn.

[Mister Sir]

Originally posted by xunlaiAgent:

I do find them annoying too, but I think there is a reason why they are used: they add difficulty to the game, but the kind of difficulty that can be clearly overcame by practice. So as annoying as they are, they are fair, in a sense.

Twitch reflex based difficulty is much harder for a lot people to learn than timing, so it is generally avoided in modern game design. Even Tekken has made its throw breaks much easier, because if you aren't built for it, they are just really hard to learn.

I do feel it would not be half bad if the game also was not this super spammy. There plenty of bosses that can literally punish your punish after you dodge their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ combos and that is legit wild that you not always have time to pull off any attack beyond light as punish after spending most of your play time dodging.

[Kim]

Originally posted by Hikaru:

elden ring is for elders. these delays and knowledge checks remove reaction time from the equation and make it all based on identifying what attack is coming and then having the knowledge to press the button at the right time.

it's cool kinda? maybe? i prefer faster games but i can see why an aging developer would make the new games for old people.

it'sgood one, kiddo!

[Lance]

delayed attacks are an extra added layer of difficulty on top of learning normal attack patterns. it forces you to memorize each attack string and attack of a boss. get a better bait post

[Sifer2]

The delayed attacks, and random length combo's are just fake difficulty because they have reached the limits of what they can really do with the I-Frame roll system they have been coasting on since Demon Souls. We know they can do better because Sekiro but Sekiro also didn't sell anywhere near as well.

[Lance]

Originally posted by Sifer2:

The delayed attacks, and random length combo's are just fake difficulty because they have reached the limits of what they can really do with the I-Frame roll system they have been coasting on since Demon Souls. We know they can do better because Sekiro but Sekiro also didn't sell anywhere near as well.

"fake difficulty" lmfao

[Faust Wither]

i love delayed attack.

[Mister Sir]

Originally posted by Corpse:

delayed attacks are an extra added layer of difficulty on top of learning normal attack patterns. it forces you to memorize each attack string and attack of a boss. get a better bait post

It's really not a bait post and you did not just uncover some secret revelations book. Obviously it's a difficulty layer, a layer that has been added heavily in elden ring cause fans of fromsoft got too good at normal dif of DS1, however I do argue that DS3 difficulty is probably the best. I do not recall too many delayed attacks there but out of DS1.2. and 3 it's 3 that I can't breeze through easily.

I and so is everyone fully understand the philosophy of delayed attacks and how to deal with them, what I am saying is that I do believe that it's less enjoyable and less skillful having to just memorize pattern and then dodge entire combo based on that rather than sekiro style where you have to react fast and if you get hit is cause you were not fast enough, rather than "oh silly you teehee, you forgot that you have to wait 2 seconds before dodging this attack which comes right after the quick dodge attack, follow up dodge into a specific direction vs next attack, and then 3 second delay attack? Oh teehee, take some damage."

Point is, delayed attack difficulty just feels like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to deal with.

[Mister Sir]

Originally posted by Faust Wither:

i love delayed attack.

Why? To me the bosses with these attack and massive aoe's are like studying, which no thanks, I did enough of that in MS, HS, Coolege, and Uni. I rather have fun and play rather having to write a doctorate on the right timing to dodge consort radahn for example.

[Faust Wither]

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Originally posted by Faust Wither:

i love delayed attack.

Why? To me the bosses with these attack and massive aoe's are like studying, which no thanks, I did enough of that in MS, HS, Coolege, and Uni. I rather have fun and play rather having to write a doctorate on the right timing to dodge consort radahn for example.

it make you learn to watch before react.

[Mister Sir]

Originally posted by Faust Wither:

Originally posted by Mister Sir:

Why? To me the bosses with these attack and massive aoe's are like studying, which no thanks, I did enough of that in MS, HS, Coolege, and Uni. I rather have fun and play rather having to write a doctorate on the right timing to dodge consort radahn for example.

it make you learn to watch before react.

I respect your opinion and I can accept that people like different things. To me personally I feel like sekiro type of fast paced reaction based action was best. ER is the better game over all but combat is better in sekiro for me personally. That whole wait before react don't really work in my opinion cause there is no clear tell when to dodge, the delays went beyond just roll catching, they instead now have different timings in single combo, in mid combo, on top of spam and aoe. Just truly annoying to deal with, and also feels more like a memory game rather than high octane battle.

[Sifer2]

Originally posted by Corpse:

Originally posted by Sifer2:

The delayed attacks, and random length combo's are just fake difficulty because they have reached the limits of what they can really do with the I-Frame roll system they have been coasting on since Demon Souls. We know they can do better because Sekiro but Sekiro also didn't sell anywhere near as well.

"fake difficulty" lmfao

It is fake because what are you supposed to do? When Radahn's combo looks identical except sometimes it has 5 swings or sometimes it's randomly 7. All you can do is assume it will always be extended or roll the dice, and attack hoping it wont. That's why you have people just cheesing it with a greatshield+poke strategy.

[Kyutaru]

Or just watch the attacks. People complaining about delayed attacks are dodging on instinct because they WANT a pattern to follow, they WANT repetition, they WANT predictability.

What the game wants is for you to pay attention and dodge when the attack is coming.