My dlc bosses difficulty ranking after finally beating all of them summonless

[mic01851165]

It's interesting how different play-style result in way different experience in dlc bosses.
I'm a faith str/dex build revolves around blocking with a finger-print shield and spam powerful ash of war during opening until boss is killed. My main weapon for bossing is Blessphemous sword. If bosses resist to fire I switch to great katana with storm blade.

My first NG+ play-through on dlc, i summon in every fight, and only Messmor and Radahn left an impression on me since even with Summons I still die a couple times trying to find the opening. (I probably fought Messmor too early too at Blessing lv7).
But overall with mimic tear, most dlc bosses die in 1~3 tries, and Messmor and Radahn took about 30~40 mins. Basically bosses simply just doesn't know how to handle summons because their aggro is too easily drawn away , so you basically have near infinite opening to spam your powerful skills/ spells to kill bosses instantly , plus you always have opportunity to heal back up w.o being punished.

My second dlc play-through on NG++ I try to fight every dlc bosses w.o summon , and the difficulty changes drastically.
Some bosses that I thought is easy suddenly feel like they don't have any opening at all and the dps window is very tiny , and stamina management becomes critical since a lot of them have insanely long combo that drains so much stamina. I also notice there are many moves in dlc that're simply unblockable or very unpractical to block them, so without summon I do need to learn to dodge some critical moves even with the best shield and high stamina.

Anyway, here goes my list from easiest to hardest: (Note, this is with max blessing on NG++)

12. Romina Saint of the bud: Easily the most forgettable boss in the dlc. She dies in 4~5 hits from Blasphemous sword and she leaves a lot of opening for you to spam skill. Considering she's such a late game boss it's hilarious how weak she is. Literally first try this.

11. Scudutree Avator: This boss could have rank a bit higher if he isn't tremendously weak to fire , and pretty much get 1~2 shot from powerful fire skills/ spells in you aim the head. He does has some very powerful aoe move, but all of them can be blocked easily.

10. Bayle the Dread: Yeah, people might be surprised I rank him this low, but this dragon leave so much opening for you to spam skills if you stand under him. He doesn't attack you with long combo so all his moves are easily blockable with little stamina management issue. He is basically like those dragon boss from base game. I pretty much kill him second try.

9. Rellana, Twin Moon Knight: i rank him pretty low because he has pretty low health and he's a humanoid boss that can be staggered quite easily, so you can pretty much trade blow with him and win. He is fast but he doesn't have many lethal move with his fast combo, and his big moves are super easy to block/ dodge.

8. Divine Beast Dancing Lion: As the first dlc boss for most people, he has some pretty nasty trick on his hand. He flies around spamming powerful aoe/ projectile , that're not easy to block the chip damage. Fortunately he has pretty low health too so you only need to land a couple moves to win.

7. Metyr Mother of Finger: He is not a hard boss, but he does hit really really hard and can one shot with with Finger slam if he hits you during your attack animation . He also have some unpredictable fast projectile and some aoe circle you need to move out the way, but his big aoe move can easily be blocked though.

6. Death Knight: He is not a remembrance boss but he's like one tbh. Very high hp/ resistant, very fast gap close move, super high damage, high hyper armour, and he has a grab that heals him to full hp if he successfully grabbed you.

5. Putrescent Knight: This boss is deceivingly hard w.o summon. He has long chain combo that drain a lot of stamina , he can gap close you and slam quickly and interrupt your skill animation, and he has some very fast range aoe move that's hard to dodge/block and put frost on you even if you block them. Took me couple tries to learn.

All the bosses in top 4 are significantly stronger than the ones above.

4. Commander Gaius: This boss basically kill torrent instantly if any of his move lands so fighting him on torrent is not piratical. This is one of those bosses with way too long combo that shielding his attacks is extremely difficult. He hurts so much with his move and his combo lasts forever. If you fight him solo with a shield, you need to learn to roll out some combo or you'd get shield break and die. His gravity magic is annoying too and can interrupt your skill/ blocking.

3. Messmor the Impaler: Comes to no-one surprise . Without the summon you can see how relentless his moves are during phase 1 with lots of stamina damage and chip fire damage. He also has multiple ground moves and grab moves that're simply unblocable. His grab move is literally a one shot too in NG++. You really need to learn his attack pattern thoroughly to win this. You need to learn to dodge some long combo, the ground aoe move, and the grab move. Cant just depend on shield to save you on this boss.
Do I mention he also has really high hp and he is highly resisted to fire damage?

2. Midra, Lord of Frenzy Flame: Some may be surprised how high I put this boss on, but this boss is simply an anti-shield boss, so he is the most punishing for my play-style. He has long combo that drain stamina and break your guarding, he has chip madness on many of his moves so blocking them is as lethal as getting hit. In his phase 2, he has that 5 madness combo slash you just cant block whatsoever or you'd get madness inflicted and die . It's basically his "I-win" bottom if you didn't learn how to roll his full combo in phase 2. You simply cant cheese this boss, you have to learn to dodge most of his moves to win. He also has grab move that're unblockable too.
Do I also mention this boss has super high hp and highly resisted to fire?

1. Promised Consort Radahn: Yeah , he's a pretty unfair boss without summon.
Super long combo that drain lots of stamina with very tiny opening, super high damage, gravity magic that're almost all unblockable (if you block them you might get one shot even), high chip holy damage even if you block them, etc. Honestly his phase 2, even in my winning attempt i still don't know how to dodge his flying gravity + charging light combo. That move is basically his "Waterfowl dance" but worse. After 2~ hrs of attempts i learn to dodge some of his moves and gravity magic so i get more opening to attack, and manage to get a lucky run to kill him . I don't feel like i win the fight, i just feel like i get lucky cuz he doesn't use a certain move. Fortunately this boss hp is actually on the lower end compare to Midra and Messmore.

What do you think?
Feel free to leave your ranking too :> (preferably no summon runs)

[Ol'Chum]

Great build, friend! Keep it up, you rock!

[cheetah1546]

Very cool I appreciate this fam

[Dr.Abscondus]

I have pretty much the same build and had similar experience except for Midra. I don't really remember fighting him because he died so fast. I used Holy damage on him. I switch back and forth between the Blasphemous Blade and the Sacred Relic Sword. The healing on Taker's Flame is very nice. I use the Bolt of Gransax for ranged attacks. I use the Fingerprint Shield and change up the affinity to suit whatever damage a boss is putting out. Fighting the Divine Beast Dancing Lion early is a mistake. There's no need to do it or the Golden Hippo either. You can explore through a huge part of the map without fighting any major bosses at all, then go back after you level up your Scadutree chunks.

[mic01851165]

Originally posted by Dr.Abscondus:

I have pretty much the same build and had similar experience except for Midra. I don't really remember fighting him because he died so fast. I used Holy damage on him. I switch back and forth between the Blasphemous Blade and the Sacred Relic Sword. The healing on Taker's Flame is very nice. I use the Bolt of Gransax for ranged attacks. I use the Fingerprint Shield and change up the affinity to suit whatever damage a boss is putting out. Fighting the Divine Beast Dancing Lion early is a mistake. There's no need to do it or the Golden Hippo either. You can explore through a huge part of the map without fighting any major bosses at all, then go back after you level up your Scadutree chunks.

Omg i always forget you can actually change the affinity on shield too XDD.
Dang, could have make a couple bosses easier if i do that.

[mic01851165]

Originally posted by Dr.Abscondus:

I have pretty much the same build and had similar experience except for Midra. I don't really remember fighting him because he died so fast. I used Holy damage on him. I switch back and forth between the Blasphemous Blade and the Sacred Relic Sword. The healing on Taker's Flame is very nice. I use the Bolt of Gransax for ranged attacks. I use the Fingerprint Shield and change up the affinity to suit whatever damage a boss is putting out. Fighting the Divine Beast Dancing Lion early is a mistake. There's no need to do it or the Golden Hippo either. You can explore through a huge part of the map without fighting any major bosses at all, then go back after you level up your Scadutree chunks.

Btw where do you put Midra then?
I do feel like his madness chip damage is pretty anti-shield though, you basically need to learn to dodge all his yellow slash attack or you're dead XD.

Btw I use bolt of gransax for trash/ mini-boss clearing too, but this weapon ash is not very useful against dlc boss if fighting solo cuz opening too big and hyper armour too low :P

[Knavenformed]

Metyr being higher than Lion and Rellana is crazy imo

Though I did go in with 16 Scadu or something so can't really say how it would be when """balanced"""

[mic01851165]

Originally posted by Knavenformed:

Metyr being higher than Lion and Rellana is crazy imo

Though I did go in with 16 Scadu or something so can't really say how it would be when """balanced"""

Well i did mention this is tested on NG++ on max blessing :>
If it's base on your first entrance of dlc which you;d have very low blessing level against Rennala and Dancing Lion, the ranking would def change, but i only attempt summonless in my 2nd dlc playthrough. Otherwise Rellana would rank a bit higher and Dancing Lion would rank lower cuz I kill dancing lion way too late cuz apparently i didnt go west at the beginning . If you fight them at max blessing you'd notice these bosses do have lower damage/ lower hp/ easier to punish , given that they're pretty early bosses most people would fight.

It's basically like your NG+/NG++ in base game which only maps after Snowfield/ Blood palace/ Sewer you do feel the bump in enemy's strength. Limegrave/ Raya all become a cake-walk.

[AlmaDarkSpell]

My tier list:

12. Putrescent Knight.
11. Divine Beast Dancing Lion.
10. Death Knight.
9. Scudutree Avator.
8. Metyr Mother of Finger.
7. Romina Saint of the bud.
6. Midra, Lord of Frenzy Flame.
5. Bayle the Dread.
4. Rellana, Twin Moon Knight.
3. Commander Gaius.
2. Messmor the Impaler.
1. Promised Consort Radahn.

[LuckyCheshire]

You're totally right, fighting on Torrent is not piratical at all.

[mic01851165]

Originally posted by AlmaDarkSpell:

My tier list:

12. Putrescent Knight.
11. Divine Beast Dancing Lion.
10. Death Knight.
9. Scudutree Avator.
8. Metyr Mother of Finger.
7. Romina Saint of the bud.
6. Midra, Lord of Frenzy Flame.
5. Bayle the Dread.
4. Rellana, Twin Moon Knight.
3. Commander Gaius.
2. Messmor the Impaler.
1. Promised Consort Radahn.

Base on difficulty or base on your liking?
But yeah top 3 pretty much identical to mine.

[AlmaDarkSpell]

Originally posted by mic01851165:

Originally posted by AlmaDarkSpell:

My tier list:

12. Putrescent Knight.
11. Divine Beast Dancing Lion.
10. Death Knight.
9. Scudutree Avator.
8. Metyr Mother of Finger.
7. Romina Saint of the bud.
6. Midra, Lord of Frenzy Flame.
5. Bayle the Dread.
4. Rellana, Twin Moon Knight.
3. Commander Gaius.
2. Messmor the Impaler.
1. Promised Consort Radahn.

Base on difficulty or base on your liking?
But yeah top 3 pretty much identical to mine.

Based on difficulty. For example, I was surprised when I read that other users had problems with Putrescent Knight. I killed this boss on the first try, with very few hits, he died very quickly. I didn't even have time to see his attack patterns, nor do I think he had a second phase. If this was the case, I did not see that phase. The rest didn't give me much trouble apart from a few more tries. The most difficult of the ones I killed alone was Rellana, which took me 4 attempts and I think I ended up killing her by pure luck.

Messmer, Gaius and Radahn, the only 3 bosses in which I summoned help from other real players. Messmer would have surely ended up killing him alone, I was several times within one hit of exterminating him, but my patience ran out. Gaius with the mount, same situation.

Radahn, I know I would never have been able to finish him without help from other users. And the truth is that I didn't try it either. He is a boss that in my opinion does not bring a single bit of fun to the table. And just like with Malenia, the purpose was to finish him quickly and move on to something else.

[mic01851165]

Originally posted by AlmaDarkSpell:

Originally posted by mic01851165:

Base on difficulty or base on your liking?
But yeah top 3 pretty much identical to mine.

Based on difficulty. For example, I was surprised when I read that other users had problems with Putrescent Knight. I killed this boss on the first try, with very few hits, he died very quickly. I didn't even have time to see his attack patterns, nor do I think he had a second phase. If this was the case, I did not see that phase. The rest didn't give me much trouble apart from a few more tries. The most difficult of the ones I killed alone was Rellana, which took me 4 attempts and I think I ended up killing her by pure luck.

Messmer, Gaius and Radahn, the only 3 bosses in which I summoned help from other real players. Messmer would have surely ended up killing him alone, I was several times within one hit of exterminating him, but my patience ran out. Gaius with the mount, same situation.

Radahn, I know I would never have been able to finish him without help from other users. And the truth is that I didn't try it either. He is a boss that in my opinion does not bring a single bit of fun to the table. And just like with Malenia, the purpose was to finish him quickly and move on to something else.

Ah when i mean summon it means spirit ash btw :3 (not players)
With spirit ash pretty much only Messmor and Radahn pose any challenge .
For my first playthrough when i summon spirit ash, majority of the bosses i don't see the pattern either cuz they die too quickly first try/2nd try , that's why my 2nd dlc run i decide to fight no summon whatsoever to see their full pattern. (well i still dont see pattern from Saint of Bud even when i fight her solo , that's why i put her at bottom lol)

Come to think of it, your list is pretty close to my first play-through with spirit ash though XD. I thought Putrid Knight was garbage too until i fight him solo.

[Sonnenbank]

every empty space means the difficulty changes drastically to the bosses before

8. Putrescent Knight.
7. Romina Saint of the bud.

6. Rellana, Twin Moon Knight.
5. Divine Beast Dancing Lion.

4. Midra, Lord of Frenzy Flame.
3. Commander Gaius.

2. Messmor the Impaler.

1. Promised Consort Radahn.

that is my ranking on how difficult it is to deal with the mechanics of bossfights
aka difficulty.

dindt fight any of the other main bosses though

the problem is you can get 10 sdau fragments before even fighting anything.
you can get 14 sadu fragments before fighting anything when you do use environment "glitches"

So how easy it was to win a fight does not necessarily mean the boss is easy.
you can fight Dancing Lion having 3 Sadu blessings or having 10 sadu blessings
in a normal playthrough where you do nothing special.

So i am only counting on how easy it is to read enemies moveset and how easy it is to dodge roll enemies moves.
Fight Dancing Lion on 0 blessings and he is an insane boss
Fight Putrescent Knight at 0 blessings and all his moves are still extremly easy to read

[AlmaDarkSpell]

Originally posted by mic01851165:

Ah when i mean summon it means spirit ash btw :3 (not players)
With spirit ash pretty much only Messmor and Radahn post any challenge .
For my first playthrough when i summon spirit ash, majority of the bosses i don't see the pattern either cuz they die too quickly first try/2nd try , that's why my 2nd dlc run i decide to fight no summon whatsoever to see their full pattern. (well i still dont see pattern from Saint of Bud even when i fight her solo , that's why i put her at bottom lol)

Come to think of it, your list is pretty close to my first play-through with spirit ash though XD. I thought Putrid Knight was garbage too until i fight him solo.

Well my tier list is based on my solo experiences.
The summons thing was a later decision.

[mic01851165]

Originally posted by Hypan31s:

Midra and Gaius were surpisingly easy for me, especially Gaius wich took me like 3 or 4 try. Messmer was fun but not that hard, I struggled more against Enir Ilim trashmobs or even Leda & co
Putrescent and Romina were very easy but also nice fights, with readable pattern, not spamming too much Aoe.
Divine beast I struggled a lot because I kept being greedy during lightning phase
Rellana and Bayle were the hardest for me.( Radahn excluded ofc).

I guess we all have different perception of difficulty depending on our playstyle/build, I'm surprised to see so much people putting Messmer in the top.

I think it's just because Messmor really does't has too many methods to exploit.
Cant cheese him with shield or range , can fight pretty early on despite really high scaling , relentless combo, etc.

For other bosses , different play-style may cause huge differences. For example like i said, my faith + great shield build make Bayle a joke, but it doesn't help me during Midra fight whatsoever.

Some bosses are hard to dodge roll but easy to block, while others are easy to block but hard to dodge . And some bosses are hard for both, like Radahn, so you need to do a mix of both.