Hot take. CRPG's are harder then Fromsoft games.

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

And im saying this as someone whos a MASSIVE Fromsoft fan and whos beaten DS 1-2-3 and Elden Ring and Shadow Tower Abyss (SUCH A GOOD GAME PLEASE REMASTER IT).

But games like Baldurs Gate 1-2 or Icewind Dale or Pillers Of Eternity or Pathfinder WoTR/Kingmaker can be SOOO much more difficult if you choose to play on the higher difficulty settings. In Fromsoft, you can die enough times where you can literally just get lucky and end up killing a boss but in a game like WoTR or Pillers Of Eternity Or BG2, if you dont build your party right, you can be forced to have to completely restart your play through. In DS, no matter how bad your build is, you can still beat the entire game. It would literally be impossible to beat a game like BG2 or Pillers Of Eternity while only using the default items you get when you first start the game while in ER, you can beat the entire game with a wooden club and no armor which is hard and takes skill, no doubt. But i feel like it gonna take a bit more skill to actually build a comprehensive build where your mental acuity will go along way when it comes to actually synergize your party to a point where it can tackle any combat situation.

Again, im sure people are gonna get heated over this (even though its just an opinion on a video game discussion forum) :)

[zero]

eh, as someone a huge fan of crpgs, especially the pathfinder ones, they aren't difficult, they just run on d20 systems which is just gambling.

your just comparing knowing the mechanics of D&D vs knowing the mechanics of elden ring, are you more of a response based person of a puzzle solving one?

to use bg3 as the modern example, the solution more often then not if your biggest aoe spell, with only some consideration for immunity, then clean up the rest.

which is the same as using your big nuke spell then dodging and cleaning up the rest of the fight in this game.

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Originally posted by zero:

eh, as someone a huge fan of crpgs, especially the pathfinder ones, they aren't difficult, they just run on d20 systems which is just gambling.

your just comparing knowing the mechanics of D&D vs knowing the mechanics of elden ring, are you more of a response based person of a puzzle solving one?

to use bg3 as the modern example, the solution more often then not if your biggest aoe spell, with only some consideration for immunity, then clean up the rest.

which is the same as using your big nuke spell then dodging and cleaning up the rest of the fight in this game.

Dont you just love how varied opinions are?

[Blue]

I know what's even harder...

[zero]

Originally posted by EGGZxOVERxExZ:

Originally posted by zero:

eh, as someone a huge fan of crpgs, especially the pathfinder ones, they aren't difficult, they just run on d20 systems which is just gambling.

your just comparing knowing the mechanics of D&D vs knowing the mechanics of elden ring, are you more of a response based person of a puzzle solving one?

to use bg3 as the modern example, the solution more often then not if your biggest aoe spell, with only some consideration for immunity, then clean up the rest.

which is the same as using your big nuke spell then dodging and cleaning up the rest of the fight in this game.

Dont you just love how varied opinions are?

apples and oranges, in the end.

[Tao314zdin]

CRPGs are almost entirely knowledge-based, with rare nowadays real-time ones having a bit of skill involved (but only if played as sufficiently high pace of course).

DS games are somewhat 50/50 in the skill/knowledge department which is a completely different approach.

[JellyPuff]

That's a luke warm take at best. Difficulty is subjective, so it's just natural to find some genres harder than others especially when they require different kinds of skillsets. How much you enjoy a game also plays a role in it's difficulty and your ability to learn and adapt.

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Originally posted by zero:

Originally posted by EGGZxOVERxExZ:

Dont you just love how varied opinions are?

apples and oranges, in the end.

Well yeah but if we are talking about games as a whole then i feel like CRPGs are much harder then Fromsoft games.

Especially the older ones but one could argue that the older CRPGs are only harder because of how unbalanced they are unless you work with mods of course. Arcanum being a great example, or Fallout 2. Both needing mods for them to not be completely unbalanced messes.

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Originally posted by JellyPuff:

That's a luke warm take at best. Difficulty is subjective, so it's just natural to find some genres harder than others especially when they require different kinds of skillsets. How much you enjoy a game also plays a role in it's difficulty and your ability to learn and adapt.

100% it is. Thats why i made sure to state that this is just an opinion.

[zero]

Originally posted by EGGZxOVERxExZ:

Originally posted by zero:

apples and oranges, in the end.

Well yeah but if we are talking about games as a whole then i feel like CRPGs are much harder then Fromsoft games.

Especially the older ones but one could argue that the older CRPGs are only harder because of how unbalanced they are unless you work with mods of course. Arcanum being a great example, or Fallout 2. Both needing mods for them to not be completely unbalanced messes.

and again, your comparing a reaction based game vs just a "know the system" game.

once you know D&D/pathfinder, its fundamentally a solved game when you don't have an actual DM who can manage the game; as i said: biggest viable aoe, then cleanup.

elden ring is just reaction based, the more you practice, the more natural it'll be.

its comparing apples to oranges.

but if i had to pick: elden ring would have th edge up because not everyone can have the reaction speed to win, but crpgs are just math under all the fluff, you get to your turn and just look through everything you have until you see what will hurt the most effectively.

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

CRPGs are almost entirely knowledge-based, with rare nowadays real-time ones having a bit of skill involved (but only if played as sufficiently high pace of course).

DS games are somewhat 50/50 in the skill/knowledge department which is a completely different approach.

Would you say Fromsoft games take up more brain power to play at a high level or would you say a game like Pathfinder WoTR would be?

I personally dont see how Fromsoft games are 50% Knowledge based. Maybe in terms of figuring out quests but combat is more skill based then anything else.

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Originally posted by EGGZxOVERxExZ:

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

CRPGs are almost entirely knowledge-based, with rare nowadays real-time ones having a bit of skill involved (but only if played as sufficiently high pace of course).

DS games are somewhat 50/50 in the skill/knowledge department which is a completely different approach.

Would you say Fromsoft games take up more brain power to play at a high level or would you say a game like Pathfinder WoTR would be?

I personally dont see how Fromsoft games are 50% Knowledge based. Maybe in terms of figuring out quests but combat is more skill based then anything else.

And RtWP isn't as common as i'd like it to be so fair on that point.

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Originally posted by zero:

Originally posted by EGGZxOVERxExZ:

Well yeah but if we are talking about games as a whole then i feel like CRPGs are much harder then Fromsoft games.

Especially the older ones but one could argue that the older CRPGs are only harder because of how unbalanced they are unless you work with mods of course. Arcanum being a great example, or Fallout 2. Both needing mods for them to not be completely unbalanced messes.

and again, your comparing a reaction based game vs just a "know the system" game.

once you know D&D/pathfinder, its fundamentally a solved game when you don't have an actual DM who can manage the game; as i said: biggest viable aoe, then cleanup.

elden ring is just reaction based, the more you practice, the more natural it'll be.

its comparing apples to oranges.

but if i had to pick: elden ring would have th edge up because not everyone can have the reaction speed to win, but crpgs are just math under all the fluff, you get to your turn and just look through everything you have until you see what will hurt the most effectively.

I'd have to disagree with the idea that if you know how the games rule set works then its not difficult. You still have to put together a coherent party and synergize your skills. Theirs alot more that goes into it then just knowing how the rule set works.

[Tao314zdin]

Originally posted by EGGZxOVERxExZ:

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

CRPGs are almost entirely knowledge-based, with rare nowadays real-time ones having a bit of skill involved (but only if played as sufficiently high pace of course).

DS games are somewhat 50/50 in the skill/knowledge department which is a completely different approach.

Would you say Fromsoft games take up more brain power to play at a high level or would you say a game like Pathfinder WoTR would be?

I personally dont see how Fromsoft games are 50% Knowledge based. Maybe in terms of figuring out quests but combat is more skill based then anything else.

Neither takes any note-worthy brain-power to execute once you know the rules good-enough PF just have considerably more rules.

The knowledge part of DS-game is the enemy patters, weaknesses etc. Like how to dodge WF dance or which attacks can be jumped over or how many hits will stun the boss.

Once you know those the actual execution does not require too much skill (at the common lvl/NG of course).

[EGGZxOVERxExZ]

Originally posted by EGGZxOVERxExZ:

Originally posted by zero:

and again, your comparing a reaction based game vs just a "know the system" game.

once you know D&D/pathfinder, its fundamentally a solved game when you don't have an actual DM who can manage the game; as i said: biggest viable aoe, then cleanup.

elden ring is just reaction based, the more you practice, the more natural it'll be.

its comparing apples to oranges.

but if i had to pick: elden ring would have th edge up because not everyone can have the reaction speed to win, but crpgs are just math under all the fluff, you get to your turn and just look through everything you have until you see what will hurt the most effectively.

I'd have to disagree with the idea that if you know how the games rule set works then its not difficult. You still have to put together a coherent party and synergize your skills. Theirs alot more that goes into it then just knowing how the rule set works.

And again, you cant go into Pathfinder with your default items or skills and expect to get anywhere when playing at a high difficulty or anything past Daring in Pathfinder.

In Elden Ring, you can beat the entire game with a club if you have good reaction timing. Pathfinder, if you dont actually play the game and build a coherent party, you literally will not beat a single encounter. Thats if you are playing on anything above daring.

Its hard for me to see how a game where you can take the default items and finish the entire game is harder then a game where you cant do that and you are forced to actually read and pay attention to your skills and your party.

The only reason why i'd say CRPGs are easier is because one can just save-scum every action they make without dealing with any of the consequences for a bad d role

[zero]

Originally posted by EGGZxOVERxExZ:

Originally posted by zero:

and again, your comparing a reaction based game vs just a "know the system" game.

once you know D&D/pathfinder, its fundamentally a solved game when you don't have an actual DM who can manage the game; as i said: biggest viable aoe, then cleanup.

elden ring is just reaction based, the more you practice, the more natural it'll be.

its comparing apples to oranges.

but if i had to pick: elden ring would have th edge up because not everyone can have the reaction speed to win, but crpgs are just math under all the fluff, you get to your turn and just look through everything you have until you see what will hurt the most effectively.

I;d have to disagree with the idea that if you know how the games rule set works then its not difficult. You still have to put together a coherent party and synergize your skills. Theirs alot more that goes into it then just knowing how the rule set works.

eh, yes and no, in any crpg it just straight up holds your hand and says "these are the stats you want" either by putting a star next to them, or just giving you the traditional stat array, or if we wanna go for truly scuffed example, baldurs gate let you roll your stats (lmao) until you get perfect rolls on everything.

if the argument is you have to know what you are doing then that would apply to both anyway, both are stat based video games, both being rpgs, just one requires actual timing and the others are predominately gambling hidden behind visuals.

like im happy to keep saying: its apples to oranges, but if we're talking about absolute worst case: some people will simply not have the reaction speed to actually beat elden ring, but anyone can learn any crpg system and just use the Most Effect Tactic Available to them until they win(or even just google it to understand, which you can do to both, but the means to *apply* that information leads to the example i provide).

i love P(m)athfinder, been playing it for over a decade, and yes big numbers scary, but its really not hard to just learn that trolls hate acid and fire and then cast fireball into the troll pack on your turn