Malenia's Absurd Waterfowl Attack...

[Chaoz]

EDIT: Ok I beat her, so you guys don't have to reply anymore lol

So, I am INCREDIBLY late to the party, but after hearing word of the DLC's release (despite the mixed opinions) and in general warming up to souls-like gameplay in other games, I finally gave this game a shot, and it was very much so worth it, thus far its been a 10/10 experience.

But the horror stories of Malenia I heard long ago were oh so true. I apologize for bringing up whats likely a long dead issue that's been already discussed endlessly, but this fight is HELL and I wanna ask veterans on what to do. Words cannot describe my frustration and despair when I realized she had Waterfowl in Phase 2 as well. Every single part of her moveset is fair and fun to dodge and counter, but THIS FREAKING MOVE. Many attempts into this fight, and I have not found a reliable way to avoid it except just being really friggin far away from her when she uses it. The first "part" seems to ALWAYS hit you if you are near her, yet second part can be dodged pretty reliably by dodging through or even to the side, and the last part can be dodged by rolling backwards, sometimes it won't work, but its mostly reliable. It is just that first freaking part that seems to have no counter. It's actually more frustrating that this move seems so close to actually being fair and balanced, but it just isnt. It also doesn't help that I have 52 vigor yet the first volley by itself will completely disintegrate my HP.

But yeah, this move really sucks, and its compounded by the fact her second phase is BRUTAL, she is downright OPPRESSIVE and will just...not let up at all, I can hardly find a moment to heal let alone attack, so I die 20 seconds into the second phase (partly because she can just open right away with more freaking waterfowl) and end up back at the start.

This fight is good, great even, but Waterfowl singlehandedly makes it just really painful and unfair. You could be trying to set up a combo, only for her to spring up into the air, and you just go "Guess I'll die". I could bring summons, but itd absolutely tank my rune reserves since up till now, I havent needed summons, cuz EVERY FIGHT BEFORE THIS WAS FAIR AND FUN (Except Elemer) so I haven't upgraded any of them, so its bound to be really expensive. So...what do I do? Is there some dodge method I have yet to perfect, or should I just bite the bullet and max out Tiche or Mimic Tear or something? And while I am here, I wanna discuss another move she has in phase 2 that gives me trouble. Her "spirit attack" move is pretty cool and straightforward enough to dodge, except near the end of the attack the penultimate spirit before Malenia herself strikes seems to strike *during* your dodge of another spirit's attack, always resulting in a hit. In other words, it attacks faster than the others, and I am unsure as to how to avoid it. Advice?

Pieces of advice I have seen elsewhere
- "Just run away" That does not work when in close range to her. Trust me, I have tried it *many* times.
- "Use spells to bait her" Maybe? But 1: That sounds really boring and a waste of my FP bar, 2: She can use WFD at ANYTIME, rarely even twice in a row, so just because I bait it once doesnt mean she cant follow up with another, and 3: she is MUCH more aggressive in her second phase, leaving far smaller windows to bait her
- "Use a shield/Bloodhound's Step/Whatever other different gear" I do not want to, and will not fundamentally change my build just to beat a single boss. Not even that, to counter a single skill she uses. That is incredibly stupid and an utter waste of 2 Larval Tears (2nd would be spent getting my old build back). Besides, there's accounting the fact I'd have to upgrade all the new gear, actually get used to said gear and learn how to best use it, etc etc. That is clearly way too much hassle just to beat a boss.
- "Use frozen pots" also maybe, but I think its really freaking stupid that unlike every other boss in the game you NEED a specific item just to counter this one friggin attack. Feels cheap and lame, more of an exploit than anything, but it is also the most surefire solution I have seen, so this is probably what I will resort to (unless I run out of rime crystal buds)
- "If you are close range then circle around her" Ok so I have no idea if this even works, I have attempted to do this but once I am THAT close to her when she uses WFD then my brain just goes blank and kind of accepts defeat so I struggle to pull it off. Even so I don't see how this would help? Her tracking is freaking immaculate, she'll hit me anyway. Even if it does work it sounds very...finnicky and specific, and not super reliable.

I greatly appreciate any advice, cuz this is legit exhausting and draining

Edit: I really appreciate the help on how to dodge the *entire* attack, but to clarify, the specific issue is just the very first "part" of it. I have learned how to reliably dodge part 2 and 3 of the attack. it is just the first part I need help with, thank you!

[Lucaine]

If you have a lot of difficulty dodging waterfowl, give Vow of the Indomitable a try on a shield (just keep it on standby to switch to when she starts winding up). If timed correctly, it'll avoid the entire first part of the attack except for one small tick of damage, then all you have to do is dodge the second and third part, which aren't as bad.

You mention not wanting to "change your build", but I think this is still a reasonable option since it doesn't require you to respec or anything.

Alternatively, you can throw knives at her when she hits about 70% or 30% hp to try and "bait out" waterfowl, since sometimes she will just do it from afar that way, making it very easy to avoid compared to her doing it at point blank.

[DarkNye]

If my memory serves correctly, roll towards her and then back off. She misses you and you can deal some real damage. I play as a glintstone sorcerer so I keep my distance but I towards her head on when she attacks. also the dragon shield that negates damage helps.

[FutureTwitchStar_TTV]

Malenia Hard boss

[Nikolay-97]

She was nerfed. Now she is easy.

Try git gud ahead.

[Nxce]

2 of the most reliable solutions i found for waterfowl are:
1. Baiting her at a distance with throwing knives.
Or
2. Throwing a freezing pot as soon as she prepares to do the attack.

Both of these methods are pretty reliable, so i would stick to those.
Of course, it's possible to dodge her attack at a close distance, but it's not worth learning in my opinion, because the timing is very tight. I personally used the first method to dodge her waterfowl and it worked out well for me.

[Nikolay-97]

Originally posted by Grumbal:

2 of the most reliable solutions i found for waterfowl are:
1. Baiting her at a distance with throwing knives.
Or
2. Throwing a freezing pot as soon as she prepares to do the attack.

Both of these methods are pretty reliable, so i would stick to those.
Of course, it's possible to dodge her attack at a close distance, but it's not worth learning in my opinion, because the timing is very tight. I personally used the first method to dodge her waterfowl and it worked out well for me.

Now waterflow is different after dlc patch, its smaller and very dodgable. Trust me.

nb: all your suggestions are good

[Sonnenbank]

Well i can basically copy and paste my post in every Malenia thread ;)
here you go
I have a total of 17h fighting this boss with all kind of different builds.
For me after a stressed day i often did Malenia fights to relax.
Meaning fight Malenia , reload save , fight her again , reload save etc etc...
this was my way of relaxing for a month

I have made several tutorials about Malenia.
Ofc they are 2 years old but they will still work i think

There is an easy way to dodge waterfowl and 2 hard ways that look really cool though.

Here i explain the hard ways:
https://youtu.be/Op2vXzwCeKc

here the easy way: you need a 100% phys shield and barricade ash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26hf9-PfeFs

Also you can not run away from her when she starts it close range.
you simply will never make enough distance.
but bloodhound stepp ash of war makes it so you will always get away the first flurry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZJj94LrMr8

[Edicius]

Damn that's crazy.

[Nxce]

Originally posted by Nikolay-97:

Originally posted by Grumbal:

2 of the most reliable solutions i found for waterfowl are:
1. Baiting her at a distance with throwing knives.
Or
2. Throwing a freezing pot as soon as she prepares to do the attack.

Both of these methods are pretty reliable, so i would stick to those.
Of course, it's possible to dodge her attack at a close distance, but it's not worth learning in my opinion, because the timing is very tight. I personally used the first method to dodge her waterfowl and it worked out well for me.

Now waterflow is different after dlc patch, its smaller and very dodgable. Trust me.

nb: all your suggestions are good

Actually? That's just sad.

[NothingButTheBlues]

I agree that Malenia is super hard and that's because of

1. waterfowl attack
2. life drain
3. hyper agressive P2

She may very well be the hardest FromSoft boss ever (Maybe now matched by Radhan consort in DLC).
That being said, please do not put the unfair stamp on it just because you finally met your match. People tend to do so often when they hit a wall, i guess it's kind of human.
I know people often misunderstand the term/advice 'git gud', but there is a fundametal truth to it. You are just not there YET. You need to realize that in FromSoft games it is totally normal (especially when you are new to them) to fight the same boss 200 times or more until you finally defeat it (that's w/o cheesing and summoning ofc).

The waterfowl attack can be dodged more or less safely, but you just did not yet find out how to do it. You could for example unlock and run in circles or keep the lock and simply dodge at the right times after initially running away from her and then dodging into the attack after the small pause. Throwing kukris when she rises should also help. The stress of the fight and your anxiety are blocking you from seeing what has to be done. That is one of the main weapons FromSoft is using against you. Stress and anxiety, often triggered by massive sound and intemidating cutscenes and movesets.

You will kill her, 100%

[DarthPika26]

in case anyone still need how to fight malenia:
use weapon can knockback her and if you use bleed or frost build, try counting how many hit when it exploding (bleed bar or frost bar full). because this moment can interupt her movement its good to cancel her waterflow combo.. and you need to be patient, im on NG+ 6 and need 100+ attempt to defeat her (bleed, and use dane's footwork from DLC). in NG+ 7 i just need 5+ times attempt to defeat her with same build and i counted how many times before she got bleed.

[Kyutaru]

Just walk between the swords.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAhkGaK-IKQ

[TK]

git gud

[nullpo]

Originally posted by Lucaine:

If you have a lot of difficulty dodging waterfowl, give Vow of the Indomitable a try on a shield (just keep it on standby to switch to when she starts winding up). If timed correctly, it'll avoid the entire first part of the attack except for one small tick of damage, then all you have to do is dodge the second and third part, which aren't as bad.

You mention not wanting to "change your build", but I think this is still a reasonable option since it doesn't require you to respec or anything.

Alternatively, you can throw knives at her when she hits about 70% or 30% hp to try and "bait out" waterfowl, since sometimes she will just do it from afar that way, making it very easy to avoid compared to her doing it at point blank.

I thought the second and third part is the hard one.

[W.K]

a