"Core Mechanic" vs "Mainstay"

[RyuKazé]

This doesn't have to be one another anti-invader thread but I'd just like to state the obvious that invasions are by definition, not a core mechanic.

All souls games you can play the game in it's entirety without engaging in invasions once. That's not core. Attacking, sitting at a site of grace, levelling up those are core mechanics.

Attempting not to do so would make the game almost impossible to beat.
Not so with invasions. I think people actually mean that it's a "mainstay" of the series and whilst those examples Iisted above are also mainstays, attempting to beat the game (outside of challenges) without doing those actions is very difficult indeed.

But that's just my opinion. What's yours?

[BoD[6-4]]

Originalmente postado por Haru:

Originalmente postado por BoD6-4:

Yeah sure. That's the reason why they don't even show up to fight unless the host freely gives himself to the hunter by gicing the invader the advantage he's so desperate to have

Anecdotal irrelevance.

except that it happens 99% of the time. "Anecdotal" my a*

[Haru]

See above.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Originalmente postado por Talilover:

Originalmente postado por SotiCoto:

Strong disagree.
Neither are visible in offline mode. I've never seen a bloodstain myself in Elden Ring, and the only messages I see are pre-made NPC ones.
So as far as I'm concerned, neither messages nor bloodstains are core mechanics. They don't even exist any more from my perspective.

"If I don't count the messages I do still see then I don't see messages!"

Bloodstains are a gimmie, and I actually wouldn't mind a few static bloodstains here and there, but just like summons and invasions there are still messages because even when offline fromsoft wants to at least provide the illusion of interacting with the multiplayer mechanics of the game

Lol exactly.

Again, more broken logic.

[›Kolanaki]

Originalmente postado por zero:

any mechanic you can entirely avoid by simply playing the game is not a core mechanic.

yakuza/like a dragon has a dozen little minigames, such as bowling, you never have to do most of them, yet they're in basically every game.

not a core mechanic, but a nice side feature.

You can ignore all the weapons and equipment in the game and still beat it. I guess it has no core mechanics 🤷🏻‍♂️

[zero]

Originalmente postado por ›Kolanaki:

Originalmente postado por zero:

any mechanic you can entirely avoid by simply playing the game is not a core mechanic.

yakuza/like a dragon has a dozen little minigames, such as bowling, you never have to do most of them, yet they're in basically every game.

not a core mechanic, but a nice side feature.

You can ignore all the weapons and equipment in the game and still beat it. I guess it has no core mechanics 🤷🏻‍♂️

i mean yes, any specific weapon or item wouldn't be a core mechanic, they are tool used for the actual core mechanic: combat.

we literally went over that already in prior pages.

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Originalmente postado por ›Kolanaki:

Originalmente postado por zero:

any mechanic you can entirely avoid by simply playing the game is not a core mechanic.

yakuza/like a dragon has a dozen little minigames, such as bowling, you never have to do most of them, yet they're in basically every game.

not a core mechanic, but a nice side feature.

You can ignore all the weapons and equipment in the game and still beat it. I guess it has no core mechanics 🤷🏻‍♂️

It's such a ridiculous argument. The way ppl are talking, the only core mechanic is what's on the button config screen.

[BoD[6-4]]

The loading screen is a core mechanic

[Darth Invader]

Peak cope.

[Plague Dr.]

Elden Rings take on invasions is probably one of the better versions so far HOWEVER still not a fan...

Played through and beat DS1/3 (got very mad at 2 so still on the to beat list) Prior to playing ER (like back to back style, as in I am experinced with but new to the souls series)

Thing is for me, I like playing non PvP coop games as a way to "hang out" with my buddies still in the military (recently retired), I really enjoy souls games solo but also like playing with my friends...

While I know its part of the stick with multiplayer I would rather not PvP...

P.S. Even had I not got out of the navy, we get moved around every 3 years, which isn't necessarily in sync with your friends 3 years either so even if you make good friends while in, you are bound to get tossed to the 4 corners of the planet over time.

[Unmotivated]

Absolutist mentality strikes again for further logical fallacy.

It's like people willingly ignore arguments in order to seem like they're smarter, when in reality they're killing people's braincells with how stupid they are.

Core elements of game design are mandatorily designed elements, such as exploration and combat, that can be considered the basis of a game. In an action game, combat mechanics, combos and differing enemies are mandatory (core) elements. No matter what you do in those games, interaction with them HAS to occur, as that is how an action game is designed. In a puzzle game, interacting with environments and solving puzzles is the core of the game. It cannot be avoided no matter what you do.

Many of you say that certain elements of combat can be avoided, but just because it's possible doesn't mean it's designed to be practical.

The intent of Souls games is to be an Action RPG. In the name, that means that it's an action game with RPG elements. However, Sekiro proves that those elements themselves aren't part of Souls core, the surrounding mechanics are: hyper armor, stun values, parry, backstabs, magic, roll are all more integral to the core than levels are. But the fact is, combat must be interacted with, no matter what you do. Even if you minimize boss fights and how you fight them, you still HAVE to fight them. Combat is a core mechanic baked into the overall intended experience and wouldn't be Souls without it. THAT is what a core is. If it's designed so intrinsically that taking it away changes the game itself, then it is by definition a part if the core.

However, in multiplayer, you really lose nothing in the experience for not engaging it. Nothing changes, you don't lose other mechanics for it, you don't get locked out of the story, and the game never even presses you to engage it. It's non-mandatory in such a way that if it was missing, the entire game would be exactly as it was before.

You have a point with Multiplayer being the core part of Souls back in Demon Souls because it affected World Tendency and was the most reliable way to affect change in it. But Dark Souls and beyond? It's a side game, there for the novelty of PvEvP and really nothing more. It affects nothing in the main game and the gane can exist perfectly fine without it.

You all are equating challenge runs with what's a core mechanic, but just because you're choosing how to fight doesn't mean you aren't still fighting, and the game actually changes a lot when you strip certain elements of it, right? It's still core to Souls games in the same way combos are core to fighting games. Sure, you can not do them, but you'll have a VERY hard time without them, because the game was designed for you to use them.

[Nakjiste]

Nobody cares how u call it, you aren't going to alter the importance of invasions in these games. The only reason this thread was created was because you wanted confirmation from people to acknowledge the invasion mechanic as one with lesser importance.

[echo_ML]

Originalmente postado por Grumbal:

Nobody cares how u call it, you aren't going to alter the importance of invasions in these games.

I mean, they're not that important. Only really important to multiplayer as a whole.

Originalmente postado por Grumbal:

The only reason this thread was created was because you wanted confirmation from people to acknowledge the invasion mechanic as one with lesser importance.

https://youtu.be/J6fnPsik9z4?si=dBPbtTjGmdRR8xk2

[ZTL-Altima]

Maybe in Elden Ring it was somewhat pushed to the background, but in all other Souls games, there were mechanics in place to expose everyone to invasions.

[zero]

Originalmente postado por ZTL-Altima:

Maybe in Elden Ring it was somewhat pushed to the background, but in all other Souls games, there were mechanics in place to expose everyone to invasions.

eh, not really? its functionally the same in all of them: use an item to activate multiplayer.

humanity, effigy, ember, and now remedy.

[Haru]

Originalmente postado por zero:

Originalmente postado por ZTL-Altima:

Maybe in Elden Ring it was somewhat pushed to the background, but in all other Souls games, there were mechanics in place to expose everyone to invasions.

eh, not really? its functionally the same in all of them: use an item to activate multiplayer.

humanity, effigy, ember, and now remedy.

Out of curiosity, because I can't be bothered googling this, does using a furled finger remedy make you susceptible to invasion or do you actually need to have more than one person in your game world to be susceptible to invasion?