"Core Mechanic" vs "Mainstay"

[RyuKazé]

This doesn't have to be one another anti-invader thread but I'd just like to state the obvious that invasions are by definition, not a core mechanic.

All souls games you can play the game in it's entirety without engaging in invasions once. That's not core. Attacking, sitting at a site of grace, levelling up those are core mechanics.

Attempting not to do so would make the game almost impossible to beat.
Not so with invasions. I think people actually mean that it's a "mainstay" of the series and whilst those examples Iisted above are also mainstays, attempting to beat the game (outside of challenges) without doing those actions is very difficult indeed.

But that's just my opinion. What's yours?

[⛧Vinn⛧]

So what about npc invaders? Not core?

[Talilover]

IMO "core mechanic" doesn't mean "thing that makes the game easier", and with your logic that's all that attacking, using grace sites, and leveling up are as they simply make it easier to beat the game/ not nearly impossible.

A core mechanic in my mind is a selling point of the game, things the game is offering to draw in players who want to engage with the mechanic. For me, and I imagine most players until Elden Ring casted a larger net, the constant PVE&P nature of the game was a huge selling point and what set it apart from other games. I don't think messages or bloodstains are integral to beating the game (more often than not messages are utterly useless even) but I still consider them a core mechanic despite them both being easily ignored, much like invasions

[Morton Koopa Jr.]

Bloodstains and messages are a core mechanic.

This definition doesn't work.

[The Spirit of Jazz]

It's inclusion in every game in the series makes it a core mechanic, not the fact that it's a mechanic that you don't engage with personally. Is magic a core mechanic? I've played through DS3 in its entirety without engaging with magic a single time. Mustn't be a core mechanic I guess.

[zero]

any mechanic you can entirely avoid by simply playing the game is not a core mechanic.

yakuza/like a dragon has a dozen little minigames, such as bowling, you never have to do most of them, yet they're in basically every game.

not a core mechanic, but a nice side feature.

[RyuKazé]

Originally posted by The Spirit of Jazz:

It's inclusion in every game in the series makes it a core mechanic, not the fact that it's a mechanic that you don't engage with personally. Is magic a core mechanic? I've played through DS3 in its entirety without engaging with magic a single time. Mustn't be a core mechanic I guess.

You're correct, magic isn't a core mechanic. By your broad definition, every mechanic that has been included in subsequent games are core, which can't be, but that is, of course, your opinion so I respect it, though I don't agree.

[Valmathras]

Originally posted by RyuKaze:

This doesn't have to be one another anti-invader thread but I'd just like to state the obvious that invasions are by definition, not a core mechanic.

All souls games you can play the game in it's entirety without engaging in invasions once. That's not core. Attacking, sitting at a site of grace, levelling up those are core mechanics.

Attempting not to do so would make the game almost impossible to beat.
Not so with invasions. I think people actually mean that it's a "mainstay" of the series and whilst those examples Iisted above are also mainstays, attempting to beat the game (outside of challenges) without doing those actions is very difficult indeed.

But that's just my opinion. What's yours?

do you even play darksouls XD??? cause proably no. in elden ring the only way you can be invaded is is you call a friend, in darksouls if you are unhollow or with cinders you can be invade with any heistation.

[⛧Vinn⛧]

Originally posted by RyuKaze:

Originally posted by The Spirit of Jazz:

It's inclusion in every game in the series makes it a core mechanic, not the fact that it's a mechanic that you don't engage with personally. Is magic a core mechanic? I've played through DS3 in its entirety without engaging with magic a single time. Mustn't be a core mechanic I guess.

You're correct, magic isn't a core mechanic. By your broad definition, every mechanic that has been included in subsequent games are core, which can't be, but that is, of course, your opinion so I respect it, though I don't agree.

By your definition mothing is vore mechanic. There are runs completed such as: no graces, no rolling, no attacking, no leveling etc etc..

So what is core in this sense?

[Mini]

So why do NPC invaders exist? Why did the developers make sure you would be invaded even if the multiplayer scene had passed?

Stop coping. Invasions are a very big part of the souls formula and they aren’t going anywhere. Play solo or get better.

[zero]

Originally posted by ⛧Vinn⛧:

Originally posted by RyuKaze:

You're correct, magic isn't a core mechanic. By your broad definition, every mechanic that has been included in subsequent games are core, which can't be, but that is, of course, your opinion so I respect it, though I don't agree.

By your definition mothing is vore mechanic. There are runs completed such as: no graces, no rolling, no attacking, no leveling etc etc..

So what is core in this sense?

graces are mandatory to beat the game, rolling is built into your kit by default, attacking is needed to win (combat being a core mechanic, not "melee" or "magic"), and leveling is the core gameplay loop.

all of those things you directly interact with or passively have, summons, and by proxy, multiplayer in general obviously is an optional mechanic, seeing as the base game can be played offline.

Originally posted by Mini:

So why do NPC invaders exist? Why did the developers make sure you would be invaded even if the multiplayer scene had passed?

Stop coping it’s a very big part of the souls formula and it isn’t going g anywhere. Play solo or get better.

an npc invader isn't the same as multiplayer, to try to equate them when they don't even mechanically function the same is dishonest lol.

npc invaders aren't a core mechanic either,no more then generic knight #34, they are ultimately entirely avoidable, the core mechanic they fall under would simply be Enemies.

[Naewyng]

A core mechanic is a mechanic of a game that you will always use in an average run.
Invasions are not one of those, neither are the dragon transformations for example.

[Talilover]

Originally posted by Morton Koopa Jr.:

Bloodstains and messages are a core mechanic.

This definition doesn't work.

Why not? Bloodstains and messages are part of the constantly interacting with an entire playerbase that I do think is a core mechanic of souls game, again I don't think "core mechanic" means "thing you have to constantly utilize"

[⛧Vinn⛧]

Originally posted by zero:

Originally posted by ⛧Vinn⛧:

By your definition mothing is vore mechanic. There are runs completed such as: no graces, no rolling, no attacking, no leveling etc etc..

So what is core in this sense?

graces are mandatory to beat the game, rolling is built into your kit by default, attacking is needed to win (combat being a core mechanic, not "melee" or "magic"), and leveling is the core gameplay loop.

all of those things you directly interact with or passively have, summons, and by proxy, multiplayer in general obviously is an optional mechanic, seeing as the base game can be played offline.

There are spirit summons only runs which means attacking isn’t obligatory at all. Are spirit summons core mechanic then? ^^

[Talilover]

For the record I think "mainstays" are reoccurring themes/ characters/ or items across a series of games, things that are widely recognizable to the playerbase.

Patches, waifu in charge of leveling up, moonlight greatsword, and dogs with swords are some examples of souls mainstays imo

[zero]

Originally posted by ⛧Vinn⛧:

Originally posted by zero:

graces are mandatory to beat the game, rolling is built into your kit by default, attacking is needed to win (combat being a core mechanic, not "melee" or "magic"), and leveling is the core gameplay loop.

all of those things you directly interact with or passively have, summons, and by proxy, multiplayer in general obviously is an optional mechanic, seeing as the base game can be played offline.

There are spirit summons only runs which means attacking isn’t obligatory at all. Are spirit summons core mechanic then? ^^

spirit summons are also not mandatory, yes

they would fall under the catagory of "tools" of which combat happens. the core mechanic being combat, exactly like in what you quoted.