crouch attacks need some kind of input delay

[Charles Vane]

2 handed crouch pokes with ugs literally uncounterable by any means, they buffed the ugs and it became automatically unbalanced, add some delays to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crouch attacks, dude literally can spam 7-8 crouch pokes in 5 seconds like wtf from soft? whenever you hit crouch add some delay so that it shouldnt be a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ instant crouch this is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or make all the crouch attacks parryable regardless of weapon class and ofc lowest of low players will only spam this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ move

[CB]

free wins? drop your sign at raya academy i'll show you free win you moron

what if i use a greatsword and crouchpoke with it lmao. are you gonna have a tantrum?

to be clear, there's a term for the type of player that refuses to adjust, and thinks the game should change its rules so they can win. it's called a scrub my guy.

[balmora pete]

I'd rather lose to a chad colossal sword user than a Rivers of Unskilled or Noobveil

[Urtoar]

Whips are working for me my crouch r1 just out spaces the knuckle draggers butplug

[Xengre]

Escrito originalmente por Charles Vane:

2 handed crouch pokes with ugs literally uncounterable by any means

Hmm...

Taken from one of my other posts on this subject:

Thrust colossal do have fast recovery frames so that is a problem when it comes to tradeless offense since they will often recover before you can attack thus "dodging" is ideal if you want to initiate a trade exchange with hyper armor or a weapon art.

Otherwise, here are some suggestions:

- Whips: range yay!!! It might not produce the highest dmg output but it is still competent and if you want you can lace it with status effects like poison/frostbite to punish their lack of mobility and offensive aggression, or even bleed.

- Magic: Fast projectile magic or spammy magic if you want to create an opening where they either have to eat magic to trade or dodge it where you move in and go offensive roll catching.

- Persistent effects: Night Maiden's Mist and the Lava pool spells among others might not normally be amazing for PvP but when you got someone crouching and not moving as much you can absolutely annoy them with these while also forcing them out of crouch. Get them with some fast magic/crossbow follow ups while they try to get out as they roll and then roll catch them if you're able to get into position. At the very least this should chip them away and with mix-ups in behaviors annoy the crap out of them and mess with their head game.

- Crossbows: Perfect counter to a baited thrust because it is faster than even their recovery. Put them to sleep, bleed them, put a rot/poison on them, you got it.

- Pots: Lets see how long they stay crouched when you throw one of these, especially something like a sleep pot. Perfect opportunity to force them to move/roll so you can get in and poke. Ideal with a spear or something with more range and its own mobile thrust attack.

- Jump attack: Jump colossal or bleed + occult builds can be devastating counter by jumping over their thrust. This one would require practice and a little netcode RNG. This can result in very severe punishes to crouch thrust users because they will not recover before this hits them and if done right you will jump over their weapon (and if done wrong, hence prior point) you will get hit attempting this (lol). This is for the more daring but it is definitely the most punishing. Be warned, if they're smart they can bait you with crouch and then stand up or weapon art action mix-ups so, again, this will take even more practice to truly master it and even then there may be times you're at netcode's and latency's mercy. You can also use any ash of war that forces you to jump particularly high to punish this and if your fast you can use

- Spears: Similar to whips you can utilize a range advantage. Obviously, they don't have the range whips have to literally stand outside the range and hit so your going to instead dodge sideways and then now that your in range thrust to hit them. While many melee weapons require you to move further up wasting time and thus suffering to the short recovery of crouch thrusts the use of a long poke spear may offer enough time to potentially counter poke despite their quick recovery or force them to roll at which point you get to pursue and attempt to catch in many cases. Another tactic is some weapon arts on spears may be potentially useful to counter thrust attacks such as the numerous hit charge attacks if you can dodge and initiate making it harder for them to avoid and iframe all of it (unless they're good, then they might but most aren't). May not work every time but worth considering this and other spear related ash strategies.

- Ash of Wars: Moonveil, Hoarfrost Stomp, and other ranged ashes. With multiple of the same weapon (or less ideal of same weapon type you are wanting to use) you could have a variety of weapon arts to further mess with their head game and punish them at range when they try to thrust poke as you juggle weapons around.

- Shield Block: Eat that thrust for zero damage and then punch them in the face at close range with faster recovery than they have and open opportunities to force roll/run to catch.

- Close range trades: Iron Jar Aromatic or other defensive buffs and a weapon art with some poise and trade them. You're doing more dmg so this works since they're definitely doing less to you. Obvious flaw is this limits mobility and a competent player can work around and adapt to punish you, but most of the player base is not competent so... Playing off incompetency you could also use Raptor of Mists to punish, but again, if they are competent this could get you very dead so be ready to either get rekt due to this on occasion or only do it when you have enough HP and are confident to risk safely eating an attack and then promptly swap tactics

If you're also having issues with normal R1 thrusts those can use some of the above tips (not fully) along with other more basic options (parry, etc.) and I would hope it isn't considered a problem as it is nothing new in the franchise.

I'm sure there are other methods too but get those creative juices going and don't just dodge/trade and R1 spam.

[Ulmace]

Escrito originalmente por Xengre:

Escrito originalmente por Charles Vane:

2 handed crouch pokes with ugs literally uncounterable by any means

Hmm...

Taken from one of my other posts on this subject:

Thrust colossal do have fast recovery frames so that is a problem when it comes to tradeless offense since they will often recover before you can attack thus "dodging" is ideal if you want to initiate a trade exchange with hyper armor or a weapon art.

Otherwise, here are some suggestions:

- Whips: range yay!!! It might not produce the highest dmg output but it is still competent and if you want you can lace it with status effects like poison/frostbite to punish their lack of mobility and offensive aggression, or even bleed.

- Magic: Fast projectile magic or spammy magic if you want to create an opening where they either have to eat magic to trade or dodge it where you move in and go offensive roll catching.

- Persistent effects: Night Maiden's Mist and the Lava pool spells among others might not normally be amazing for PvP but when you got someone crouching and not moving as much you can absolutely annoy them with these while also forcing them out of crouch. Get them with some fast magic/crossbow follow ups while they try to get out as they roll and then roll catch them if you're able to get into position. At the very least this should chip them away and with mix-ups in behaviors annoy the crap out of them and mess with their head game.

- Crossbows: Perfect counter to a baited thrust because it is faster than even their recovery. Put them to sleep, bleed them, put a rot/poison on them, you got it.

- Pots: Lets see how long they stay crouched when you throw one of these, especially something like a sleep pot. Perfect opportunity to force them to move/roll so you can get in and poke. Ideal with a spear or something with more range and its own mobile thrust attack.

- Jump attack: Jump colossal or bleed + occult builds can be devastating counter by jumping over their thrust. This one would require practice and a little netcode RNG. This can result in very severe punishes to crouch thrust users because they will not recover before this hits them and if done right you will jump over their weapon (and if done wrong, hence prior point) you will get hit attempting this (lol). This is for the more daring but it is definitely the most punishing. Be warned, if they're smart they can bait you with crouch and then stand up or weapon art action mix-ups so, again, this will take even more practice to truly master it and even then there may be times you're at netcode's and latency's mercy. You can also use any ash of war that forces you to jump particularly high to punish this and if your fast you can use

- Spears: Similar to whips you can utilize a range advantage. Obviously, they don't have the range whips have to literally stand outside the range and hit so your going to instead dodge sideways and then now that your in range thrust to hit them. While many melee weapons require you to move further up wasting time and thus suffering to the short recovery of crouch thrusts the use of a long poke spear may offer enough time to potentially counter poke despite their quick recovery or force them to roll at which point you get to pursue and attempt to catch in many cases. Another tactic is some weapon arts on spears may be potentially useful to counter thrust attacks such as the numerous hit charge attacks if you can dodge and initiate making it harder for them to avoid and iframe all of it (unless they're good, then they might but most aren't). May not work every time but worth considering this and other spear related ash strategies.

- Ash of Wars: Moonveil, Hoarfrost Stomp, and other ranged ashes. With multiple of the same weapon (or less ideal of same weapon type you are wanting to use) you could have a variety of weapon arts to further mess with their head game and punish them at range when they try to thrust poke as you juggle weapons around.

- Shield Block: Eat that thrust for zero damage and then punch them in the face at close range with faster recovery than they have and open opportunities to force roll/run to catch.

- Close range trades: Iron Jar Aromatic or other defensive buffs and a weapon art with some poise and trade them. You're doing more dmg so this works since they're definitely doing less to you. Obvious flaw is this limits mobility and a competent player can work around and adapt to punish you, but most of the player base is not competent so... Playing off incompetency you could also use Raptor of Mists to punish, but again, if they are competent this could get you very dead so be ready to either get rekt due to this on occasion or only do it when you have enough HP and are confident to risk safely eating an attack and then promptly swap tactics

If you're also having issues with normal R1 thrusts those can use some of the above tips (not fully) along with other more basic options (parry, etc.) and I would hope it isn't considered a problem as it is nothing new in the franchise.

I'm sure there are other methods too but get those creative juices going and don't just dodge/trade and R1 spam.

there is to much not curved sword run attack in this

[BIG E.]

I'll never understand why ugs crouch attack is the same animation as dodge attack.

[euder rings]

Escrito originalmente por Charles Vane:

dual curved sword ffs it doesnt matter ugs hyper armor will cancel out any dex dual set up unless you are using dual scyhtes, raptor of the mist wont work either because you are leaping far away from the enemy and aerial attack just wont connect either

your ♥♥♥♥♥ is too light, the other guy has some armor on so his poise overrules ur light weapons, use heavier weapons and better armor u can easily trade with that if u have enough damage, colossal swords tend to cost a lot of stamina so you saying they spam that ♥♥♥♥♥ 7 times is inaccurate, they can spam it maybe 3 times before they have to recover stamina

[MingQWERTY]

Escrito originalmente por BIG E.:

I'll never understand why ugs crouch attack is the same animation as dodge attack.

I thought crouch attacks are just another way of executing a roll attack? Or are they different?

[Superboniato]

Escrito originalmente por gernig:

what weapon u are using against them?

Spacing. Keep the right distance and you can punish it and take distance again.
about 1.5 (aprox) the long of the weapon.

But as other said, id rather die against that than to a RoB spammer.

[Superboniato]

Escrito originalmente por indian bruce willis:

I'd rather lose to a chad colossal sword user than a Rivers of Unskilled or Noobveil

TOTALLY AGREE

[jinispace]

The only legit attack is crouch attack, try killing someone with colossal sword with left click, while they attack super fast or dodge and you are still in animation of left click and cant even cancel it, if they make that you can cancel left click or make it faster then maybe but crouch attack is the main legit way you can use those swords otherwise you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with super slow attack, which will almost always miss people

[John Elden]

I love how OP basically admits "I want this nerfed because I'm too lazy to change up my tactics. Cater to me!"

I believe there is a term for this kind of mindset. I think it goes something like 'Git gud'.

[cridus]

Git guds aside, I do think these pokes are unbalanced compared to other crouch L1s. There's a reason why we see so many people using them, and sometimes switching to them when losing.
Making them parriable would be fine, imo. They're too fast to parry on reaction, anyway.

Yes, there's many worse stuff, but it doesn't mean that it should be ignored, imo. If they ever fix said broken stuff, I'm curious to see if there will be even more crouch UGS pokers than there are now.

[John Elden]

Escrito originalmente por cridus:

Git guds aside, I do think these pokes are unbalanced compared to other crouch L1s. There's a reason why we see so many people using them, and sometimes switching to them when losing.
Making them parriable would be fine, imo. They're too fast to parry on reaction, anyway.

Yes, there's many worse stuff, but it doesn't mean that it should be ignored, imo. If they ever fix said broken stuff, I'm curious to see if there will be even more crouch UGS pokers than there are now.

Nah. I see it as them being used because people fall for them.
That very much makes it a player-error thing and not something that's OP.

[Xengre]

Escrito originalmente por cridus:

Git guds aside, I do think these pokes are unbalanced compared to other crouch L1s. There's a reason why we see so many people using them, and sometimes switching to them when losing.
Making them parriable would be fine, imo. They're too fast to parry on reaction, anyway.

Yes, there's many worse stuff, but it doesn't mean that it should be ignored, imo. If they ever fix said broken stuff, I'm curious to see if there will be even more crouch UGS pokers than there are now.

Indeed, just because something isn't impossible to deal with doesn't mean it doesn't need to be better tuned. Since this is an easily accessible option and rather not a skill technique based issue I think it does come off a too reliable and oppressive.